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Who Was The Better Player Guy Lafleur Or Mike Bossy

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Old
07-25-2010, 10:42 AM
  #101
Rhiessan71
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Easiest way to put this...
Bossy made goalies look stupid.
Lafleur made everyone look stupid.

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07-25-2010, 03:14 PM
  #102
Canadiens1958
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Intangibles and Coachability

Let's look beyond the talent.

Ability to integrate a team.

Mike Bossy joined the Islanders out of junior, quickly recognized the team niche, and optimized his contribution from the start, maturing his game with experience, advancing it to an elite NHL level until curtailed by injury.

Guy Lafleur joined the Canadiens out of junior, took three seasons to adapt to the team and the NHL game before playing to his full potential for a stretch of six seasons. While his offense was spectacular he had to be supported with linemates that would compensate for his shortcomings.

Once injury and age started to erode his talent Guy Lafleur did not adjust and was hard to coach. Complained about his linemates, continued his habits and did not adjust his game.

Mike Bossy had his quirks. Spoke out against violence and dirty play in the league.

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07-25-2010, 08:48 PM
  #103
Big Phil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Let's look beyond the talent.

Ability to integrate a team.

Mike Bossy joined the Islanders out of junior, quickly recognized the team niche, and optimized his contribution from the start, maturing his game with experience, advancing it to an elite NHL level until curtailed by injury.

Guy Lafleur joined the Canadiens out of junior, took three seasons to adapt to the team and the NHL game before playing to his full potential for a stretch of six seasons. While his offense was spectacular he had to be supported with linemates that would compensate for his shortcomings.

Once injury and age started to erode his talent Guy Lafleur did not adjust and was hard to coach. Complained about his linemates, continued his habits and did not adjust his game.

Mike Bossy had his quirks. Spoke out against violence and dirty play in the league.
To be fair he was in a car accident and was never the same again. At the same age (30) Bossy retired. Lafleur still played a few more years.

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07-25-2010, 09:10 PM
  #104
Canadiens1958
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Second Car Accident

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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
To be fair he was in a car accident and was never the same again. At the same age (30) Bossy retired. Lafleur still played a few more years.
To be fair that was his second major car accident. After being drafted between his last junior year and his first NHL season he rolled his car driving to Montreal from QC. So he was fortunate to have an NHL career.

Lafleur was never the same after injuring his knee in the 1980 playoffs against Hartford.One of the reasons was that lifestyle trumped rehab.

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07-25-2010, 09:16 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
To be fair that was his second major car accident. After being drafted between his last junior year and his first NHL season he rolled his car driving to Montreal from QC. So he was fortunate to have an NHL career.

Lafleur was never the same after injuring his knee in the 1980 playoffs against Hartford.One of the reasons was that lifestyle trumped rehab.
So I just can't see how you penalize a guy for at least playing after that while Bossy retired and never added to his resume. Granted Lafleur was injured so much and didn't add to his legacy much from 1980-'84 but his PPG was still pretty good at 1.07. How is it Bossy gets rewarded for retiring?

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07-25-2010, 09:37 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
To be fair he was in a car accident and was never the same again. At the same age (30) Bossy retired. Lafleur still played a few more years.
He broke his nose or hit his head(Can't remember which) in that car accident, but suffered no other injuries from what I recall. As another said, his knee injury vs Hartford was the beginning of the end.

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07-25-2010, 09:41 PM
  #107
Canadiens1958
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Penalized????????

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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
So I just can't see how you penalize a guy for at least playing after that while Bossy retired and never added to his resume. Granted Lafleur was injured so much and didn't add to his legacy much from 1980-'84 but his PPG was still pretty good at 1.07. How is it Bossy gets rewarded for retiring?
Penalized? Just statements of fact.

Rewarded? Just statements of fact. Even today Mike Bossy cannot move properly and has to limit physical exertion.

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07-25-2010, 09:51 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Penalized? Just statements of fact.

Rewarded? Just statements of fact. Even today Mike Bossy cannot move properly and has to limit physical exertion.
You know what I mean. I am talking about being rewarded for career value. Why is it that Bossy retiring at pretty much the same age as Lafleur when he got his injuries is better than a guy who managed to play 4 more years to a lesser degree but still good enough?

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07-25-2010, 09:52 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Dark Shadows View Post
He broke his nose or hit his head(Can't remember which) in that car accident, but suffered no other injuries from what I recall. As another said, his knee injury vs Hartford was the beginning of the end.
The car accident "allegedly" with Gretzky in the passenger seat in 1980 or 1981 would be that one I believe

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07-25-2010, 09:57 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
The car accident "allegedly" with Gretzky in the passenger seat in 1980 or 1981 would be that one I believe
I remember now. He was driving drunk and almost got killed because he rammed a post and the post drove through the windshield and narrowly missed his head. His ear was partially severed and required plastic surgery. But other than that, he was quickly discharged from the hospital with no other injuries.

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07-25-2010, 10:00 PM
  #111
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The Second Accident

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Originally Posted by Dark Shadows View Post
He broke his nose or hit his head(Can't remember which) in that car accident, but suffered no other injuries from what I recall. As another said, his knee injury vs Hartford was the beginning of the end.
Both of Lafleur's accidents were single car/single driver accidents. The second after a night of clubbing in Montreal he lost control of his car on the expressway and crashed into a guard rail. A javelin like piece supporting the signage shot thru the windshield grazing an ear for a few stitches. A few inches ......... In the haste to get him to the hospital and patched up a sobriety test was overlooked.

The first he lost control of his car late at night on the autoroute driving from QC to Montreal. Car rolled, no injury.Notorious curve, he was not an experienced driver at the time.


Last edited by Canadiens1958: 07-25-2010 at 10:03 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old
07-25-2010, 10:02 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Both of Lafleur's accidents were single car/single driver accidents. The second after a night of clubbing in Montreal he lost control of his car on the expressway and crashed into a guard rail. A javelin like piece supporting the signage shot thru the windshield grazing an ear for a few stitches. A few inches ......... In the haste to get him to the hospital and patched up a sobriety test was overlooked.

The first he lost control of his car late at night on the autoroute driving from QC to Montreal. Car rolled, no injury.
Okay, not to get off topic, but when was Gretzky in the car with him? I remember in an interview when Lafleur kind of let that slip once. Can't really find much on that.

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07-25-2010, 10:06 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Okay, not to get off topic, but when was Gretzky in the car with him? I remember in an interview when Lafleur kind of let that slip once. Can't really find much on that.
The Gretzky part is just a rumor that has never been proven. The part where Lafleur was inches away from dieing is not. He was a lucky man that night.


Last edited by Psycho Papa Joe: 07-25-2010 at 10:18 PM.
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Old
07-25-2010, 10:12 PM
  #114
Canadiens1958
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Guy Lafleur

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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Okay, not to get off topic, but when was Gretzky in the car with him? I remember in an interview when Lafleur kind of let that slip once. Can't really find much on that.
People around here take what Guy Lafleur says with a tablet of salt.

His hunting escapade - out of season. His court testimony. Put the Gretzky fable in the same category.

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07-25-2010, 10:29 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
People around here take what Guy Lafleur says with a tablet of salt.

His hunting escapade - out of season. His court testimony. Put the Gretzky fable in the same category.
Fair enough, he hasn't necessarily been a model citizen his whole life we know that, but it's been mentioned and what a weird thing to mention as well. Is it possible that there was a car accident that was "hush-hush" back in 1981 that we never knew about? This is 1981, no internet, nothing to expose him. Couldn't Gretzky have been in the car with him since they were linemates during the 1981 Canada Cup? Al Strachan seems to think so in his book 8 Games that changed hockey history.

Okay fine, Strachan is a guy too we usually take with a grain of salt but how often is something brought up without being true? An awfully weird thing to print without a shred of truth to it.

Anyways, we are off topic here

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07-26-2010, 01:03 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post

In addition, I'm not sure I buy this, Bossy was better in the Playoffs conclusion many have made. During their 4 year cup runs, Lafleur averaged 1.5ppg. Bossy 1.54. So it's too close to call. In addtion, on average, the Habs played teams with better winning percentage and hence tougher teams. So it's arguable as to who is the better playoff performer. Both were great when their teams were winning cups.
why re we only comparing the 4 year runs on cup teams and not the total of their accomplishments in the playoffs?

Just for the record Bossy is 85-75-160 in 129 games played while Lafleur is 58-76-134 in 128 games.

While i have Lafleur as the "better" player bit a slight margin due to the length of his career, I honestly don't see any argument as to who was the better playoff performer.

Bottom line is that Bossy is one of the all time greatest performer in the playoffs in NHL history.

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07-26-2010, 04:13 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
So I just can't see how you penalize a guy for at least playing after that while Bossy retired and never added to his resume. Granted Lafleur was injured so much and didn't add to his legacy much from 1980-'84 but his PPG was still pretty good at 1.07. How is it Bossy gets rewarded for retiring?
Not to derail the thread, but this is the exact argument that I use with the Lindros-Neely debate, and very few people seem to acknowledge it.

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07-26-2010, 05:01 AM
  #118
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why re we only comparing the 4 year runs on cup teams and not the total of their accomplishments in the playoffs?
I really don't care how guys performed when their teams were losing in the 1st and 2nd rounds or when they weren't a focal point of their teams offense or when they were past their peak, that's why. Both guys were all about winning the cup when they were at their best, and I care about how their performances helped their teams win cups. That's how I judge playoff play with these guys. Imo they are very comparable playoff performers.


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07-26-2010, 08:00 AM
  #119
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I really don't care how guys performed when their teams were losing in the 1st and 2nd rounds or when they weren't a focal point of their teams offense or when they were past their peak, that's why. Both guys were all about winning the cup when they were at their best, and I care about how their performances helped their teams win cups. That's how I judge playoff play with these guys. Imo they are very comparable playoff performers.
I think this falls into the "if you are cherrypicking" peak years Lafleur is most likely better. "if you are looking at careers", Bossy is probably better because Lafleur really peaked and fell off compared to Bossy who was soooo consistent.

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07-26-2010, 08:37 AM
  #120
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Guy Lafleur was just a better player than Mike Bossy.Better career might be closer but even in this category I still put Lafleur ahead , but in best player if you saw both you just know who the biggest superstar was everytime his skate touched the ice.Lafleur was a complete beast without taking anything from Bossy.I might be bias since I never valued snipers as much as player who control the play because I think a lot of ''offensive zone time'' gained by these players is nowhere to be seen in the statistics.

Edit: Also , suppose you have to take 1 player for your team , you just can't pass on Lafleur if only for the thrill you'll have watching him lol

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07-26-2010, 09:21 AM
  #121
Rhiessan71
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I think this falls into the "if you are cherrypicking" peak years Lafleur is most likely better. "if you are looking at careers", Bossy is probably better because Lafleur really peaked and fell off compared to Bossy who was soooo consistent.
When was Lafleur a cherry picker???
He hated breakaways, said so himself, he felt he sucked at them because he had too much time to think.
No dude, he was no cherry picker.

You find me even one highlight of him having a breakaway from center due to cherry picking and i'll find you 50 where he was either starting deep in his own zone or where he wasn't even the first Hab over the blueline.


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07-26-2010, 09:33 AM
  #122
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When was Lafleur a cherry picker???
He hated breakaways, said so himself, he felt he sucked at them because he had too much time to think.
No dude, he was no cherry picker.

You find me even one highlight of him having a breakaway from center due to cherry picking and i'll find you 50 where he was either starting deep in his own zone or where he wasn't even the first Hab over the blueline.
I'm not talking about Lafleur being a cherrypicker .. did you have your coffee yet Rhiessan?

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07-26-2010, 10:23 AM
  #123
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I'm not talking about Lafleur being a cherrypicker .. did you have your coffee yet Rhiessan?

lol never touch the stuff.
I did reread your context though and apologize

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07-27-2010, 03:43 PM
  #124
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They had different styles. They were both incredibly elite. Can't say one was better than the other IMO. Both had great supporting casts in high scoring eras, so statistical analysis is relatively useless here.
well put.

but if Bossy played in Montreal during that era he'd have a full religion in his name by now.

As great a player as Lafleur was, better skater, flowing hair, etc. Bossy was still better. Bossy competed harder, with more consistency, less flair, more output, more results than Lafleur - all in a smaller hockey market.

I choose 22.

close race though.

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07-27-2010, 03:54 PM
  #125
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well put.

but if Bossy played in Montreal during that era he'd have a full religion in his name by now.

As great a player as Lafleur was, better skater, flowing hair, etc. Bossy was still better. Bossy competed harder, with more consistency, less flair, more output, more results than Lafleur - all in a smaller hockey market.

I choose 22.

close race though.
I strongly disagree with you , Bossy didnt competed harder than Lafleur and he didnt have more results.And Bossy wouldn't have been popular like Lafleur was , Lafleur was a god in Montreal and to a lot of people he still is , spectacular and explosive players are always more popular and Lafleur was all that while being the best player in the league.

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