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Hoffman (3yr 610k) and Bass (1yr 500k) signed.

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Old
07-22-2010, 07:49 AM
  #26
Caje
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With the amount of 4th liners we have, Bass won't be playing for the big club next season. Good signing for Bingo, I guess.

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07-22-2010, 09:37 AM
  #27
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The QMJHL is a terrible league ...
There are kids that score 50+ goals that go undrafted.

League MVP or not, I am not giving this Hoffman kid the benefit of the doubt. He is undersized and unless something miraculous happens, won't get a sniff at the NHL level

Hoffman = Ryan Shannon

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07-22-2010, 10:01 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustingTheIce View Post
The QMJHL is a terrible league ...
There are kids that score 50+ goals that go undrafted.

League MVP or not, I am not giving this Hoffman kid the benefit of the doubt. He is undersized and unless something miraculous happens, won't get a sniff at the NHL level

Hoffman = Ryan Shannon
Pretty much agree.

In fact, based on where he stands today, equaling Ryan Shannon's NHL career would be a pretty big success for Hoffman.

Most likely scenario is he puts up mediocre numbers in the AHL for three years and then is not resigned.

Hope I'm wrong, it'd be great if he turns into a legit NHL-er down the road, but the probability is very low.

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07-22-2010, 10:33 PM
  #29
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On Mike Hoffman he is a prospect for Ottawa he did put up good #'s in the QMJHL.

Will he be able to do that in the AHL I have no idea, just have to wait & see next season........................

He is a snipper with a good shot + a good skill set lets wait and see how he plays @ the AHL level..............

Cody Bass is only 23 still young I hope he can play a full season without getting hurt. He has good speed and some grit not much of a scorer he is a checker. Last yr he did score a beautiful goal for Bingo he let go a rocket on that shot......................


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Old
07-22-2010, 10:44 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustingTheIce View Post
The QMJHL is a terrible league ...
There are kids that score 50+ goals that go undrafted.

League MVP or not, I am not giving this Hoffman kid the benefit of the doubt. He is undersized and unless something miraculous happens, won't get a sniff at the NHL level

Hoffman = Ryan Shannon
you're the guy working with the checkers, right? I'm surprised to hear such a response from someone who actually works in hockey.

To call the Q a terrible league is silly. It is a very good developmental league, you just have to be smart enough not to compare stats head-to-head with the OHL or QMJHL. The Q is a more offensive league. Coaches use far less defensive systems than the other CHL leagues, and speed and puck skills are emphasized over defensive play. As long as someone isnt stupid, they'll realize that and adjust inter-league comparisons.

Hoffman's MVP season in the Q doesnt make him an automatic NHL first liner, but that certainly doesnt relegate him to fringe 4th liner either. If you watch hoffman, you'll see a natural goal-scoring ability, and the willingness to battle along the boards, that will get him far in the NHL as long as he continues to work hard.

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07-22-2010, 10:55 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
you're the guy working with the checkers, right? I'm surprised to hear such a response from someone who actually works in hockey.

To call the Q a terrible league is silly. It is a very good developmental league, you just have to be smart enough not to compare stats head-to-head with the OHL or QMJHL. The Q is a more offensive league. Coaches use far less defensive systems than the other CHL leagues, and speed and puck skills are emphasized over defensive play. As long as someone isnt stupid, they'll realize that and adjust inter-league comparisons.

Hoffman's MVP season in the Q doesnt make him an automatic NHL first liner, but that certainly doesnt relegate him to fringe 4th liner either. If you watch hoffman, you'll see a natural goal-scoring ability, and the willingness to battle along the boards, that will get him far in the NHL as long as he continues to work hard.
This. To just disregard Q prospects is silly. Should we disregard USHL (Costello) or Swedish J20 league (Sorenson, Petersson a few years ago) or even BCHL (Grant, you guys seemed to love Bennett) guys too? Because those leagues aren't nearly as competitive as the Q.

Hoffman has a good skill set to score goals even at the NHL level given his skating and great wrist shot. From what I heard, he has done a good job of rounding out his game too.

It'll be very interesting to see which of our boom or bust guys pan out. ie Sorenson, Petersson, Hoffman

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07-23-2010, 12:24 AM
  #32
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Hoffman was impressive in last year's camp too. One of the final cuts if I remember correctly..

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07-23-2010, 12:45 AM
  #33
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I was able to catch some AHL games last year for free.

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Old
07-23-2010, 08:11 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
This. To just disregard Q prospects is silly. Should we disregard USHL (Costello) or Swedish J20 league (Sorenson, Petersson a few years ago) or even BCHL (Grant, you guys seemed to love Bennett) guys too? Because those leagues aren't nearly as competitive as the Q.
It's not just the caliber of the league, it's the age of the player. If Costello, Grant or Sorenson were still in those second tier leagues at the age of 20, then yeah, I would say they could be disregarded as prospects.

If Hoffman put up his 09/10 Q numbers at the age of 18, then I'd be much more excited about him as a prospect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post

It'll be very interesting to see which of our boom or bust guys pan out. ie Sorenson, Petersson, Hoffman
Thinking of these guys as "boom or bust" is exactly right. They could be NHL top-6ers or they could never come close to making the league. But you have to assign probabilities to them reaching that top-6 potential... if I had to take a stab at it, it'd be something like:

Sorenson -- 5%
Hoffman -- 10%
Petersson -- 30%

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07-23-2010, 09:16 AM
  #35
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I saw Hoffman play a couple playoff games and a couple reg. season games in Saint John last year and was really impressed. He stood out for sure as the most talented overall player on the team. What impressed me the most was he played first PK unit and played the point on the PP. I never checked his TOI but imagine it must be close to the top D unit. A couple times on a PP in the offensive zone he actually took the faceoff and then slowly made his was back to play the point on the same shift. That made me realize how complete of a game he has.

I would say he has the potential to be a future NHLer just a lot of IF's along the way.

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07-23-2010, 12:29 PM
  #36
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It's not just the caliber of the league, it's the age of the player. If Costello, Grant or Sorenson were still in those second tier leagues at the age of 20, then yeah, I would say they could be disregarded as prospects.

If Hoffman put up his 09/10 Q numbers at the age of 18, then I'd be much more excited about him as a prospect.
I have a few problems with this, but first let me broadly agree: 5th round picks rarely make it to the NHL. With that as a given, there are a few things to consider: 1) he didn't just put up those numbers as a 20-year old, he put them up last year as well, 2) his point production didn't drop this year (ppg were 1.51 both years) after he left the stacked team he was on in 08-09, 3) everyone loves Zack Smith and like Hoffman he was an overage pick (yes they have different skill sets, I'm just making a general point). I think Hoffman will be a good pro at the AHL level. I'm not sure if he'll be able to translate his skill set to the NHL or not, but to dismiss him at this stage seems pointless. I'm happy to debate those points or others with you, I just don't understand why you have such strong feelings on the guy.

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07-23-2010, 12:30 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by H2ODP View Post
Hoffman was impressive in last year's camp too. One of the final cuts if I remember correctly..
I'm a bit confused here--was Hoffman at last year's camp? He wasn't signed.

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07-23-2010, 12:47 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by petelevi View Post
I'm a bit confused here--was Hoffman at last year's camp? He wasn't signed.
Yep. He was one of the final cuts (as a 19 year old). The coaching staff really seems to like him as well.

Lets also keep in mind that Hoffman went a similar route as Claude Giroux. He couldn't get a job in the OHL and ended up in the Q playing for Gatineau. He essentially missed a whole year of development in 2006-07 when he only played 2 games with Kitchener. So it explains his late blooming.

He actually put up very respectable numbers in his draft year. 48 points in 62 games (Culek had 47 in 63 as a comparison). He was also traded that season from the Olympiques to Drummondville. So there was literally zero stability for this guy until he stuck with Les Voltigeur for a season and a half.

The following year he broke out and had his 52 goal, 94 point campaign. He suffered from the overage stigma and fell to the 5th round. Great pick by BMurr imo. Here's a guy with tons of potential.

The next season he continues his torrid scoring pace and by all accounts improved his two way game and worked extremely hard which was a knock against him (and part of the reason he fell 12 rounds) and played in all situations while getting Q MVP honours. You can't really ask for much more out of the guy. He was also known as quite a clutch performer.

His performance in camp only solidifies his standing as a legit top 6 prospect imo. There's more competition this year so I don't expect to see him last as long but he should be a great addition to Bingo.

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07-23-2010, 12:54 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
Yep. He was one of the final cuts (as a 19 year old). The coaching staff really seems to like him as well.

Lets also keep in mind that Hoffman went a similar route as Claude Giroux. He couldn't get a job in the OHL and ended up in the Q playing for Gatineau. He essentially missed a whole year of development in 2006-07 when he only played 2 games with Kitchener. So it explains his late blooming.

He actually put up very respectable numbers in his draft year. 48 points in 62 games (Culek had 47 in 63 as a comparison). He was also traded that season from the Olympiques to Drummondville. So there was literally zero stability for this guy until he stuck with Les Voltigeur for a season and a half.

The following year he broke out and had his 52 goal, 94 point campaign. He suffered from the overage stigma and fell to the 5th round. Great pick by BMurr imo. Here's a guy with tons of potential.

The next season he continues his torrid scoring pace and by all accounts improved his two way game and worked extremely hard which was a knock against him (and part of the reason he fell 12 rounds) and played in all situations while getting Q MVP honours. You can't really ask for much more out of the guy. He was also known as quite a clutch performer.

His performance in camp only solidifies his standing as a legit top 6 prospect imo. There's more competition this year so I don't expect to see him last as long but he should be a great addition to Bingo.
Good Post, I agree with pretty much everything

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07-23-2010, 01:11 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
Yep. He was one of the final cuts (as a 19 year old). The coaching staff really seems to like him as well.
Thanks for the post--excellent points.

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07-23-2010, 02:35 PM
  #41
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For a good part of the Bingo season ATDHE.net was showing most of the AHL games last season

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07-23-2010, 10:04 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
you're the guy working with the checkers, right? I'm surprised to hear such a response from someone who actually works in hockey.

To call the Q a terrible league is silly. It is a very good developmental league, you just have to be smart enough not to compare stats head-to-head with the OHL or QMJHL. The Q is a more offensive league. Coaches use far less defensive systems than the other CHL leagues, and speed and puck skills are emphasized over defensive play. As long as someone isnt stupid, they'll realize that and adjust inter-league comparisons.

Hoffman's MVP season in the Q doesnt make him an automatic NHL first liner, but that certainly doesnt relegate him to fringe 4th liner either. If you watch hoffman, you'll see a natural goal-scoring ability, and the willingness to battle along the boards, that will get him far in the NHL as long as he continues to work hard.

How many times have you seen a QMJHL MVP, Sidney Crosby aside, do anthing at the NHL level? Mathieu Perrault, Francis Pare, Alex Radulov, Joel Perrault, PM Bouchard, Simon Gamache .... where are all these kids now?
How many players, other than goaltenders, do you see making the Canadian World Junior Team?! Very minimal. The OHL provides the offense and the W provides the defence.

The defensive systems in the Q are non-existent, it's actually embarrassing
The Q is nothing but offense ...
People in the hockey world don't look at the Q as a "solid" developmental league.

Good for Claude Giroux, the kid worked his tail off and deserves it ... and I really hope and wish that Hoffman can pan out the same way ... but there's no point getting your hopes up for kids coming out of the Q

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07-24-2010, 12:46 AM
  #43
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I gotta say I would be pretty folking happy if Hoffman became Perrault x2, Boucahard, or Radulov. That's decent company. Its not like that group is a bunch of scrubs. If our 5th round pick can amount to that standard I'll be very happy.

Anyways, the point is Hoffman literally accomplished the highest honours possible this season and people still **** on him. I'm not saying he'll be a good or even average NHLer but he has the skills to one day be an offensive contributer. We can stop downplaying that fact.

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07-24-2010, 01:06 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by DustingTheIce View Post
How many times have you seen a QMJHL MVP, Sidney Crosby aside, do anthing at the NHL level? Mathieu Perrault, Francis Pare, Alex Radulov, Joel Perrault, PM Bouchard, Simon Gamache .... where are all these kids now?
Radulov is still an amazing player, he's just in Russia, PM Bouchard is a reliable top 6 forward and Perrault could challenge for the Caps 2nd line center spot as soon as this upcoming season.

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The defensive systems in the Q are non-existent, it's actually embarrassing
The Q is nothing but offense ...
People in the hockey world don't look at the Q as a "solid" developmental league.
That statement is completely false.

WHL: 5172 goals (22 teams)
QMJHL: 3808 goals (18 teams)
OHL: 4727 goals (20 teams)

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07-24-2010, 11:53 AM
  #45
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Wow, when did people give up on Hoffman?

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07-24-2010, 12:38 PM
  #46
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This is kind of random but also on topic. I went to high school with Hoffman and I partied with him last night. When he played for the highschool team he was really bad, but since then he's really improved.
He seems to be promising however I personally dont think he will ever become an NHLer because he started late and he was an overager in the Q which affected his stats for the better, even though you cant argue what he accomplished this year.
When I watched last years draft and I saw he got drafted in the 5th round to my favourite team no less, I was shocked.
We'll see if he can make the big club, however he'll have to keep improving to have a chance, and it'll be tough with the prospects we already have developing.

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07-24-2010, 12:47 PM
  #47
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Wow, when did people give up on Hoffman?
It's one poster who doesn't like the QMJHL--if you read his posts that's his issue, it has little or nothing to do with Hoffman himself.

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07-24-2010, 04:38 PM
  #48
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I had a post a while back where I went through some former Q MVPs over the past dozen years or so. There were a few guys like Crosby and Radulov who just tore the league a new one. Then there were a lot of guys who put up points like Hoffman whose names you probably wouldn't recognize.

Here's the good news, though. The majority of the guys got some time in the NHL, which is a remarkably good sign for a 5th round draft pick at this point in his career. Going by past MVP winners, he's got a decent shot to get at least some time with the big club. He's already gone way above expectations, let's see if he can keep it up.

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07-25-2010, 08:53 PM
  #49
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I have a few problems with this, but first let me broadly agree: 5th round picks rarely make it to the NHL. With that as a given, there are a few things to consider: 1) he didn't just put up those numbers as a 20-year old, he put them up last year as well, 2) his point production didn't drop this year (ppg were 1.51 both years) after he left the stacked team he was on in 08-09, 3) everyone loves Zack Smith and like Hoffman he was an overage pick (yes they have different skill sets, I'm just making a general point). I think Hoffman will be a good pro at the AHL level. I'm not sure if he'll be able to translate his skill set to the NHL or not, but to dismiss him at this stage seems pointless. I'm happy to debate those points or others with you, I just don't understand why you have such strong feelings on the guy.
Good post and good points.

Let me first clarify why I "have such strong feelings on the guy" - the answer is, I don't. I've never met him, never seen him play, and like all Sens prospects I'd love to see him help the team win games at the NHL level. Nothing would make me happier than to see Mike Hoffman hoist the Stanley Cup in a Sens uniform.

But, I think many people on this board have high hopes for him based on his MVP season in the Q, and I think they are going to be disappointed. I'll point out also, that most of those people aren't really being explicitly about how good they think he'll be. Is he the next Brad Richards? Steve Sullivan? Kris Versteeg? Antoine Vermette? Ilja Zubov? All that most people are saying is that he was a very good 5th round pick, and that may be true but it doesn't really mean much.

Now the basis for my thoughts - in the early 90's I was a big Montreal Expos fan and spent a lot of time (too much) tracking the progress of their minor league prospects. After awhile, I came to realize there were two ways to identify a "really good prospect" from the fringe guys:

1. The really good prospects compete well in leagues against older players (eg. in baseball, if a guy is a regular player in AA at 20, AAA at 21, then he is a really good prospect).

2. Really good prospects show DRAMATIC improvement from one year to the next. This can either be by progressing up the chain of more and more difficult leagues and achieving the same stats, or by staying in the same league for two years and having much better stats the second year.

I think these two points apply to hockey prospects as well, although I'll admit it's tougher to evaluate hockey players based on stats.

In the case of Hoffman, I think he failed on both of these points in the 09/10 season. He didn't make the jump to the AHL, where he would have been a young player in a tough league, and he didn't dramatically improve his point production. There are no shortage of qualifiers and explanations for why that is so, but that doesn't change the results.

(Note that Jim O'Brien's season as a 19 year old in the WHL failed on point #2 -- he only marginally improved his output -- and we saw how much trouble he had adapting to the pro game.)

But I'll end with this - if a knowledgeable poster (like petelevi, for example), sees him play in the AHL or some NHL preseason game, and posts that the guy really does have top-6 potential in the NHL, then that'll override everything I've typed here -- and I'll gladly, happily believe the guy is a "really good prospect".

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07-25-2010, 09:16 PM
  #50
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I do think the Q is a very poor league though. It's very "scrambley", from what I've seen.

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