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LD Ryan Murray (2012, 2nd overall, Columbus)

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Old
04-17-2012, 10:22 AM
  #376
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Let me preface this by saying I know very little.

But why is Murray ranked ahead of someone like Dumba? Dumba seems to be the much more explosive, game changing player and is statistically superior. Maybe Murray is better defensively, but that's harder to project at such a young age.

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04-17-2012, 11:36 AM
  #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
Let me preface this by saying I know very little.

But why is Murray ranked ahead of someone like Dumba? Dumba seems to be the much more explosive, game changing player and is statistically superior. Maybe Murray is better defensively, but that's harder to project at such a young age.
He is better defensively, that's not really a projection. He's more responsible and dependable in his end.

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04-17-2012, 11:44 AM
  #378
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Speed, great passing skills, v. good shot and great hockey sense, but playing on a poor team. LOL Watch when hopefully he gets onto a team with some depth in the NHL the kid will shine. #1 pairing d-man will get good minutes, head the pp and put up points. You you worry about that, he is going to be a gooder.

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04-17-2012, 04:11 PM
  #379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
Let me preface this by saying I know very little.

But why is Murray ranked ahead of someone like Dumba? Dumba seems to be the much more explosive, game changing player and is statistically superior. Maybe Murray is better defensively, but that's harder to project at such a young age.
Murray and Dumba are closer than some rankings would have you believe.

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04-17-2012, 05:05 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by jukon View Post
Murray and Dumba are closer than some rankings would have you believe.
Not in my mind. As it stands right now I have Murray as my top WHL ranked player. Dumba is 4th. With that being said, the difference between 2, 3 and 4 is fairly small.

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04-17-2012, 05:09 PM
  #381
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It's pretty much the case of:

Murray is basically a lock to be a very good #2 defender, or an awesome #3.

Dumba could be a legit #1 stud. Or his risky game will lead him to being merely a #3-#4 defenceman who isn't trusted by coaches due to his risky game.

The classic case of dependability vs high risk/high reward.

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04-18-2012, 12:36 AM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
It's pretty much the case of:

Murray is basically a lock to be a very good #2 defender, or an awesome #3.

Dumba could be a legit #1 stud. Or his risky game will lead him to being merely a #3-#4 defenceman who isn't trusted by coaches due to his risky game.

The classic case of dependability vs high risk/high reward.
sounds like phaneuf. phaneuf is a #1 d-man big goals, big hits and looks like a norris trophy defensmen then the next game he plays horrible and is a -3.

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04-18-2012, 08:55 AM
  #383
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I guess the one thing that's curious to me is the lack of offensive progression in Murray's three WHL seasons. People like to deride statistics, particularly for defenseman, but they give a very good indication of future NHL success. And defensive know-how can be nurtured much easier than offensive skill.

Dumba's team is just as poor offensively as Murray's, and his offensive stats blow Murray out of the water. Dumba is also 10 months younger and has one less WHL season to his credit.

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04-18-2012, 08:57 AM
  #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowDuck View Post
He is better defensively, that's not really a projection. He's more responsible and dependable in his end.
Better defensively at 18 doesn't really mean much to me, especially when he has a year and a season's worth of experience on Dumba.

Although not everyone might agree with this mindset, teams should target dynamic talents at the top of the draft.

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04-18-2012, 04:48 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
Better defensively at 18 doesn't really mean much to me, especially when he has a year and a season's worth of experience on Dumba.

Although not everyone might agree with this mindset, teams should target dynamic talents at the top of the draft.
that seems to be exactly craig button's line of thinking. perhaps it is right, perhaps not.

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04-18-2012, 05:20 PM
  #386
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As an Oilers fan I'd rather have Dumba than Murray but want Yakupov most. I'm scared to death about the Oilers doing something stupid to trade down a few spots and draft Murray because they feel that they HAVE to draft a D with what is hopefully their last top 5 pick for awhile. I don't think Murray's ceiling is at Hedman, Larsson or even Dougie Hamilton's level. And certainly no one better than them.

Button does love him some Dumba though. Guys have been going up and down on his lists but Dumba's been pencilled in at 2 for months.


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04-18-2012, 06:04 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Bozak View Post
sounds like phaneuf. phaneuf is a #1 d-man big goals, big hits and looks like a norris trophy defensmen then the next game he plays horrible and is a -3.
His hockey IQ is a lot higher than Phaneufs

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04-18-2012, 07:39 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by NeilYoung View Post
His hockey IQ is a lot higher than Phaneufs
I wouldn't quite go that far.

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04-18-2012, 08:42 PM
  #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
I guess the one thing that's curious to me is the lack of offensive progression in Murray's three WHL seasons. People like to deride statistics, particularly for defenseman, but they give a very good indication of future NHL success. And defensive know-how can be nurtured much easier than offensive skill.

Dumba's team is just as poor offensively as Murray's, and his offensive stats blow Murray out of the water. Dumba is also 10 months younger and has one less WHL season to his credit.
Dumba's stats blow Murray out of the water how? He was about .13ppg higher than Murray, and Murray's team scored over 10% less goals than Dumba's. And I know +/- is not a definitive stat, but Everett had 83 more goals against than goals for, and Murray was even on +/-, playing 25+ minutes a game. Dumba was a -6 on a team that gave up 27 more than they scored.

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04-18-2012, 08:49 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
I wouldn't quite go that far.
Really? Phaneuf didn't show particularly good hockey IQ in Calgary. As soon has he had to play against anything beyond bottom 6 forwards, he got exposed trying to make hits that he shouldn't have gone for, and had a wonderful penchant for shooting pucks into the shins of opposing players on the PP. Unless that's changed, he's always struck me as a player with great physical ability, but a brain that doesn't quite match.

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04-19-2012, 10:32 AM
  #391
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Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
Really? Phaneuf didn't show particularly good hockey IQ in Calgary. As soon has he had to play against anything beyond bottom 6 forwards, he got exposed trying to make hits that he shouldn't have gone for, and had a wonderful penchant for shooting pucks into the shins of opposing players on the PP. Unless that's changed, he's always struck me as a player with great physical ability, but a brain that doesn't quite match.
And Dumba makes some very questionable plays on a game to game basis. All I'm saying is that Dumba's hockey IQ isn't incredibly higher than Phaneuf's was.

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04-19-2012, 10:35 AM
  #392
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
And Dumba makes some very questionable plays on a game to game basis. All I'm saying is that Dumba's hockey IQ isn't incredibly higher than Phaneuf's was.
Personally I think it's definitely a lot more refined that Phaneufs is already. I heard he's had a rough U18's though. I know you've seen a lot of him as well. But he was a straight up beast down the stretch for red deer

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04-19-2012, 11:02 AM
  #393
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Originally Posted by NeilYoung View Post
Personally I think it's definitely a lot more refined that Phaneufs is already. I heard he's had a rough U18's though. I know you've seen a lot of him as well. But he was a straight up beast down the stretch for red deer
He was definitely looking much better at the end of the regular season. I think with them being short on the blueline the last month, it forced him to refine his play and not run around so much. I saw him twice in February/March and he looked much stronger and smarter than in the first half of the season.

With that being said, he still has some major brain farts in regards to decision making with and without the puck. The Under 18's have been a great example of that too.

There is no questioning he's a top end talent for the U-18 age group, so it's not surprising he continues to put up points. It's just that when you watch the games he goes for a questionable pinch, an odd-timed stretch pass or an attempted big hit at very bad times on several occasions in each game.

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04-19-2012, 11:54 AM
  #394
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
And Dumba makes some very questionable plays on a game to game basis. All I'm saying is that Dumba's hockey IQ isn't incredibly higher than Phaneuf's was.
Oh man, I didn't read far enough back in those quotes. I assumed the guy was talking about Murray (who, by all accounts, is a very smart player). I see what you're getting at, now.

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04-30-2012, 09:17 AM
  #395
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Ryan Murray, D Everett Silvertips (WHL, 2012)

Ryan Murray The Next Ones: NHL 2012 Draft Prospect Profile

http://thehockeywriters.com/ryan-mur...spect-profile/

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04-30-2012, 11:51 AM
  #396
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Hockey IQ is definitely questionable for Dumba. Great skill and talent, but a lot of questionable decisions on the ice. Murray is an incredibly mature and well-rounded player who understands the game and plays an even-keeled, efficient brand of hockey.

Age old argument: proven commodity versus unproven potential. In this case, I'll go with Murray. Talk about a safe pick. You know exactly what you're getting with him.

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05-04-2012, 09:36 AM
  #397
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Real interesting that Team Canada has him playing the right side today.

Does he play the right side in Everett?

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05-04-2012, 11:06 AM
  #398
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I find it quite interesting that Kevin Lowe added him to the roster. They definitely wanna get another look at this kid and make sure they are making the right decision on either taking Yakupov or trading down to get this stud. They must have a boatload of confidence in this kid in order to throw him in to such a high scale tournament at 18 years old. Looking forward to seeing what he can do. I don't think he's falling past #2 at the draft unless Edmonton can trade down and get him.

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05-04-2012, 11:08 AM
  #399
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Attention #oilers fans: Kevin Lowe was just gushing about Ryan Murray. Says he saw him play a "flawless" game in Everett recently.

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05-04-2012, 11:32 AM
  #400
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Looking for opinions here- my team is the Leafs so obviously I'm interested in who they're gonna draft. With Murray's exposure at the WHC...is it now almost guaranteed the Leafs will be selecting one of the top 4 forwards if they stay at five? I.e. Is Murray gone before #5?

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