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LD Ryan Murray (2012, 2nd overall, Columbus)

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Old
03-24-2012, 02:23 AM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Most NHL ready defenceman of the draft. If he goes to the right team, he could be counted on to play 14-15 minutes a night next year in the NHL.

Slick puck mover, amazing skater and pretty solid defensively.

He'll go top 5 for sure in the draft.
How would you describe his physical play? Does he get his shot on net well? How would you rate him vs. Dumba in terms of shooting, passing, and skating? Thanks!

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03-24-2012, 06:33 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by DangerMan View Post
Ryan Murray is a heckuva defenseman that brings a ton of intangibles to the table. But how those intangibles will equate at the pro level is the thing that have people unsure of what he is. He seems a bit undersized to be a pure shutdown player. Not sure if how his offense will translate to the pros.

Vision and hockey sense are two of his biggest attributes, something that Oilers head scout, Stu Macgregor grades highly on. I'm sure he's wrestling with these same questions as I am.

With Gernat, Klefbom and Marincin in the pipeline, I'm not sure the Oilers need another "good at everything but not great at anything" type defenders. What they will likely need is a dynamic gamebreaker on the backend. And that player would be Dumba. Even though Murray is likely better than all of the above, the Oilers need to trust the pieces they have drafted and start to surround them with pieces that fit.

Essentially, what I am saying is, the Oilers will be able to get more out of Dumba than they will out of Murray.
Dumba perhaps has a slightly higher upside but Murray is the better % play and is a really good bet to be a Lidstrom lite as described earlier in this thread.

Either way Edmonton needs to get 1 or 2 really good D leaders in there for next year to groom their young Dmen regardless of who they pick in this years draft.

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03-24-2012, 06:44 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I think when compared to recent draftees, his game is very similar to Adam Larsson's, but Murray is a much better skater.

I honestly think the low-end of Murray's potential is Dan Hamhuis, and if you dont watch the Canucks often that might sound like a bit of a slight for the top d-man in this draft. It isn't, Dan Hamhuis plays the toughest minutes on the team and has one of the lowest panic threshold's in the league.

I really like this player.
I think Hamhuis is a good comp but with better offensive skills.

Everett plays a really defensive style of game and have been extremely challenged offensively in the time Murray has been there.

There is no reason that he couldn't be a 40-50 point guy at his peak and contending for the Norris for a good stretch of 5 plus years IMO.

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03-24-2012, 09:17 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Dumba perhaps has a slightly higher upside but Murray is the better % play and is a really good bet to be a Lidstrom lite as described earlier in this thread.

Either way Edmonton needs to get 1 or 2 really good D leaders in there for next year to groom their young Dmen regardless of who they pick in this years draft.
I'm not into bashing one prospect over another and picking sides, but I will say this, Murray has the intangibles, thats undeniable, Dumba has more physical tools and a higher motor that comes with it. I can see a case for both and in a normal situation I would take Murray and his all around game with elite hockey sense. But in the case specific to the Oilers, the Oilers need someone who can fly on the backend and keep up the high pace the forwards will create on this team.

The Oilers are at a crossroads in how they are going to build their team. Do they add to the hockey sense they started with RNH or do they add to the speed when they took Hall?......or they could avoid both and take a center. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in this years scouting meetings. Betcha there will be a lot of torn opinions.

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03-24-2012, 12:01 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
How would you describe his physical play? Does he get his shot on net well? How would you rate him vs. Dumba in terms of shooting, passing, and skating? Thanks!
He's not overly physical. He doesn't go looking for a ton of contact, but when he gets involved he doesn't get overwhelmed by it. He's a sturdy kid.

He's a better pure skater than Dumba, but Dumba is definitely more explosive in his first few steps. His shot isn't as good as Dumba's either, but he's a better puck mover IMO.

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03-24-2012, 04:16 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
He's not overly physical. He doesn't go looking for a ton of contact, but when he gets involved he doesn't get overwhelmed by it. He's a sturdy kid.

He's a better pure skater than Dumba, but Dumba is definitely more explosive in his first few steps. His shot isn't as good as Dumba's either, but he's a better puck mover IMO.
RS what would you say is the top end potential for Murray and Dumba? Points wise, depth chart wise etc. And what would you say a good comparable for each is?

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03-24-2012, 11:47 PM
  #132
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Yes, comment on his offensive ability. I keep hearing that he's an excellent all-around d-man but likely won't be a 40+ point d-man at the NHL level. My gut says he may be the most dissapointing pick in the draft if he doesn't develop into Dan Hamhuis, which someone mentioned and I thought was a good comparable.
Well his team sucks. That stands out first off. I also want to say he's bigger in person than it seems he's listed. I found it interesting he played LD, but RD on the powerplay. That must mean his coaches think he has a good one timer or clapper. He did score a goal but it was deflected by a Tri city player and was just a normal wrist shot, not particularly hard.

He does have excellent hockey sense. He knew where to be and anticipated where the puck was gonna go well. Though I don't think he was aggressive enough. Idk if it was just this game, because it's the only time I've seen him, but that stood out. A top 5 draft pick should be a star, and he seemed to defer to his teammates too much for my liking.

He is an excellent passer, but I don't think he will be a powerplay quarterback. 40 point for a two way d-man is very good, but I don't think he ever scores much more than that. It might be because I'm an Ottawa fan getting to watch Karlsson with the puck all the time, but 40 points is where I see him averaging minus the two or three year learning curve years


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03-25-2012, 01:41 AM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
He's not overly physical. He doesn't go looking for a ton of contact, but when he gets involved he doesn't get overwhelmed by it. He's a sturdy kid.

He's a better pure skater than Dumba, but Dumba is definitely more explosive in his first few steps. His shot isn't as good as Dumba's either, but he's a better puck mover IMO.
Thanks for the run down, I've only seen them in the top prospects game and for Murray anyway in a few WJC games. IMO Murray's passing could do some real wonders for the Oilers as could Dumba's point shot.

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03-25-2012, 02:05 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Thanks for the run down, I've only seen them in the top prospects game and for Murray anyway in a few WJC games. IMO Murray's passing could do some real wonders for the Oilers as could Dumba's point shot.
I take Dumba if I'm the Oil, Dumba is always in the mix, murray is a great skater, and good positionally, but Dumba is Dynamic and a game breaker, who looks to hurt when he hits, IMO Dumba hands down.

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03-25-2012, 03:46 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Furback View Post
I take Dumba if I'm the Oil, Dumba is always in the mix, murray is a great skater, and good positionally, but Dumba is Dynamic and a game breaker, who looks to hurt when he hits, IMO Dumba hands down.
Thanks, we could obviously use both skill sets, however if we do take a D with our top pick and get to choose between the 2 it will be interesting to see who our scouting staff likes more.

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03-25-2012, 05:01 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Thanks, we could obviously use both skill sets, however if we do take a D with our top pick and get to choose between the 2 it will be interesting to see who our scouting staff likes more.
Murray is more reliable than Dumba IMO. If the Oilers wanna play it safe, they take Murray. If they wanna roll the dice they take Dumba.

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03-25-2012, 05:46 AM
  #137
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Murray is more reliable than Dumba IMO. If the Oilers wanna play it safe, they take Murray. If they wanna roll the dice they take Dumba.
roll the dice? its not like Dumba is terrible defensivly or very raw, he is as close to a sure thing as any d man in the draft.

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03-25-2012, 05:54 AM
  #138
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roll the dice? its not like Dumba is terrible defensivly or very raw, he is as close to a sure thing as any d man in the draft.
Not terribly or very raw, but it's not his strong point by any means.

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03-25-2012, 06:08 AM
  #139
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Not terribly or very raw, but it's not his strong point by any means.
Its all opinion I guess, when I look at Dumba I see a guy with super star potential, I love his game, Murray just does not have the potential to go # 2, if Murray is there around 7 to 10 Im happy but not top 5 imo.

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03-25-2012, 06:08 AM
  #140
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I want this guy a lot if we are to pick up a defensemen in this draft. Really think this guy is going to be something special.

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03-25-2012, 10:06 AM
  #141
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I think you'd be hard pressed to call choosing Murray over Dumba or vice versa a wrong choice. They are both highly skilled young men who look like they could have good NHL careers.

It's odd though because even though Red Deer had a better season than Everett, Murray will likely get an extra 4 games to prove himself. In those games he is already doing very well.

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03-25-2012, 10:38 AM
  #142
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i think Murray is going to be one of those guys who is decent at everything but excellent at nothing. I personally wouldn't take him with a high high pick

if Dumba has a better offensive potential then i would take him you can teach him defense

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03-25-2012, 11:43 AM
  #143
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He might just be reading this thread as he has factored in on every Everett Goal this post-season (1g, 2a through 2 games) , and a +1 despite Everett being outscored 10-3. I truly believe he would be the undisputed #1 d-man in this draft if he didn't play there.

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03-26-2012, 12:14 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Happy Hallidays View Post
RS what would you say is the top end potential for Murray and Dumba? Points wise, depth chart wise etc. And what would you say a good comparable for each is?
I see Murray's top end as a borderline #1 defenceman, if not, a very good #2. I think he has 45ish point potential as he will be a top pairing PP guy. Compares favorably to Scott Niedermayer in regards to his style. (Not saying he'll ever be close to him in career accomplishments).

I see Dumba's top end as a borderline #2 defenceman, with him likely being a solid, solid #3 guy. I think he'll also be a 45ish point guy, who plays top line PP, but not likely a PK type of guy. Definitely more explosive all-round than Murray is, but not as good in his own zone. Compares favorably to PK Subban.

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03-26-2012, 12:24 PM
  #145
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I think Murray will get all the same questions as Landeskog did last year.

Very solid all around player, but does he have the elite upside? I believe he does, and will show that just as Landeskog has. Murray plays a shockingly similar game to Niedermayer(a style comparison, not skill comparison) and I think he is the best passer for a defenseman in this draft.

IMO Dumba has the much bigger question marks, can be a gamebreaker, but could also be a mini Phaneuf. Whether that style with his size works at this level is beyond me to predict.

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03-26-2012, 02:06 PM
  #146
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I think Murray will get all the same questions as Landeskog did last year.

Very solid all around player, but does he have the elite upside? I believe he does, and will show that just as Landeskog has. Murray plays a shockingly similar game to Niedermayer(a style comparison, not skill comparison) and I think he is the best passer for a defenseman in this draft.

IMO Dumba has the much bigger question marks, can be a gamebreaker, but could also be a mini Phaneuf. Whether that style with his size works at this level is beyond me to predict.
I can't decide if I want a puck rusher or a puck mover to play with Hall, Eberle and Nuge. I'm leaning towards a puck mover, makes Murray sound enticing, but Dumba's slapshot, the fact he shoots right, his hands, and his physicality really draw him to me.

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03-26-2012, 02:22 PM
  #147
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I've seen both Murray and Dumba play a few times this year.

I thought Murray controlled the play and was moving the puck a lot. From what I've seen of Dumba, he's not a puck moving defenceman. Although in the games I watched he seemed to always score. I barely noticed him all game, even though I was looking for him, but at the end of the game he had a goal and an assist. While Murray stood out all the time.

Murray really reminded me of Peitrangelo (spelling?) But I'm no scout.

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03-26-2012, 03:05 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by PumpkinBomb View Post
I've seen both Murray and Dumba play a few times this year.

I thought Murray controlled the play and was moving the puck a lot. From what I've seen of Dumba, he's not a puck moving defenceman. Although in the games I watched he seemed to always score. I barely noticed him all game, even though I was looking for him, but at the end of the game he had a goal and an assist. While Murray stood out all the time.

Murray really reminded me of Peitrangelo (spelling?) But I'm no scout.
Dumba is absolutely a puck moving defenceman.

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03-26-2012, 03:28 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Dumba is absolutely a puck moving defenceman.
Dumba is a unique puck mover. In the games I've seen him play, it's never the long stretch passes he makes. It's the short, crisp passes that open up ice.

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03-26-2012, 03:49 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Captain Crossbar View Post
Dumba is a unique puck mover. In the games I've seen him play, it's never the long stretch passes he makes. It's the short, crisp passes that open up ice.
It's also the fact that he acts as a 4th FW for much of the time he's out there.

"Puck mover" doesn't just mean that he makes a good, long breakout.

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