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LD Ryan Murray (2012, 2nd overall, Columbus)

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Old
04-02-2012, 12:37 PM
  #201
Sticks and Pucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Crossbar View Post
I can't compare Murray to Wesley... just no. Murray is a dynamic defenseman who can play any role, whether it be a shutdown defenseman, a PP quarterback, a rushing defenseman or a puck mover.
But wouldn't you say Wesley did just that in junior and in the early part of his career with the Bruins?

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04-02-2012, 12:43 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by jmoss45 View Post
How about Kris Letang? He has achieved star status through being a world class skater, and also being very good at both ends of the rink.
I personally think Letang is really overrated, but I sort of see it, though Murray is better defensively.

The player I see in him whenever he plays is Scott Niedermayer, 100%.

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04-02-2012, 12:59 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
Niedermayer was an offensive force with the Blazers. 82 points in 57 games? Not even close to Murray.

Am I wrong to presume? Compare the junior numbers. Fowler wasn't close to Scotty either but he was closER
Kamloops also scored 385 goals that season, Windsor scored 331 in Fowler's draft year, while Everett scored 185 this year. 31 points in 46 games on a team that was close to the bottom in league scoring isn't too shabby. It might be unfair to compare as the WHL (like the NHL) has seen scoring drop. Portland led the way with 328 goals this year. In 1990-91, 9 of the 14 teams had more.

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04-02-2012, 01:10 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by canuckmaster12345 View Post
But wouldn't you say Wesley did just that in junior and in the early part of his career with the Bruins?
I think people forget what he was like earlier in his career and how offensive he was. There was a reason why Hartford gave up so much to get him. I think they were expecting a mini Bourque, but ended up with that grizzled/smart veteran people now think of when they think of Wesley.

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04-02-2012, 01:21 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Dephtones View Post
I personally think Letang is really overrated, but I sort of see it, though Murray is better defensively.

The player I see in him whenever he plays is Scott Niedermayer, 100%.
I like the comparison because a lot of Oil fans don't want Murray, saying he is too small, or not physical enough. Letang has the same physical package (even a bit smaller) yet uses his skating and smarts to beat opponents on both ends of the rink. Letang is unreal and would it on any team in the league.

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04-02-2012, 01:30 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by jmoss45 View Post
I like the comparison because a lot of Oil fans don't want Murray, saying he is too small, or not physical enough. Letang has the same physical package (even a bit smaller) yet uses his skating and smarts to beat opponents on both ends of the rink. Letang is unreal and would it on any team in the league.
Murray does not play like Letang at all, IMO. Just because they're similar size doesn't mean their games are similar. Letang is much more physical and get-up-and-go than Murray, who is much more cereberal and smooth. Letang's shot also blows his out of the water.

Wesley seems like an insulting comparison, but it's not out of the realm of possibility for a guy like Murray. He had 4 season of 40+ points, I don't know how much better Murray will do than that honestly.

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04-02-2012, 01:32 PM
  #207
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The questions of limited offensive upside aren't warranted IMO. The kid is very good offensively. His numbers the last two years have been very good, considering how bad his team has been. Even in this year's postseason, you could see how he carried his team at both ends of the ice.

He will be a 40-50 point defenceman within 5 years in the NHL IMO. That's well above average and also very good for a kid who will also kill penalties eventually and be on a top pairing eventually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilYoung View Post
Ryan Murray is the exact same player as Karl Alzner
No, not really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoss45 View Post
How about Kris Letang? He has achieved star status through being a world class skater, and also being very good at both ends of the rink.

Not a great comparison IMO. Letang plays with a much bigger edge in his game. Murray doesn't really have that. They might end up being similar in offensive production, but not in playing style.

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04-02-2012, 01:32 PM
  #208
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Wade Redden before his career started going down the drain is what I see

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04-02-2012, 01:37 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post




No, not really.

Yes he is if I pulled up scouting reports from each and left the names off of them no one would know which one is which. Identical I don't see how that's a bad thing at all

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04-02-2012, 01:44 PM
  #210
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Wesley was never really that impressive offensively.

He put up 50+ points twice
First time it was a year that saw 4 guys hit 150+ points
2nd time was a year that saw 9 guys hit 50+ goals (one of which in under 50 games)

Translate that to this current year, and it like a Dman getting 35 points and 12 goals.
That's not bad, but its not that great for a career year.
Wesley was fantastic defensively though

Not a terrible comparison, but I think Murray will be a bit more offensive, and a little worse defensively (granted still good).
Letang isn't a bad comparison either I guess.

In a career year on a team like the Oilers, I expect Murray to hit 45+ points.

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04-02-2012, 01:51 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by NeilYoung View Post
Yes he is if I pulled up scouting reports from each and left the names off of them no one would know which one is which. Identical I don't see how that's a bad thing at all
I have my own scouting reports..that I've done myself...and I don't see him as Karl Alzner.

I don't like basing my own opinions off of what others have written.

And I never said that Karl Alzner was a bad player. He's a fine player and one that would be a great guy to model your game after.

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04-02-2012, 02:18 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by oilsp1ll View Post
Murray does not play like Letang at all, IMO. Just because they're similar size doesn't mean their games are similar. Letang is much more physical and get-up-and-go than Murray, who is much more cereberal and smooth. Letang's shot also blows his out of the water.

Wesley seems like an insulting comparison, but it's not out of the realm of possibility for a guy like Murray. He had 4 season of 40+ points, I don't know how much better Murray will do than that honestly.
Have you seen Murray play? I may be off with my Letang comparison but much of what you said about Murray contradicts what other scouting reports have said, including that of Renegade Stylings. Murray's shot just got voted as one of the best in the WHL by the coaches in players. I don't think Letang has that big a bomb? Also, if you watch the highlights from Murray's last playoff game of the year, he scores a nice goal off the rush.

As far as the physical edge I don't disagree with what has been stated. I just don't like the homerun comparisons of "he's the next Crosby/Neidermayer/Lidstrom" because those are generational talents, and achieving a talent level like Letang/Pietrangelo is more realistic IMO.

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04-02-2012, 02:22 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
Am I wrong to presume? Compare the junior numbers. Fowler wasn't close to Scotty either but he was closER. Look it's still possible that Murray is a Duck (lol and don't say "he won't fall farther than blah, cause everyone said the same thing about Fowler). I'm taking that into account when I analyze him and I just don't think Murray is as good offensively. that's not to say he's not an OFD everyone would love to have, but really, no prospect has come close to Niedermayer. Maybe Pietrangelo in terms of playing style and two way prowess, but he's still not on the same level.
Fowler played on one of the most stacked junior teams in recent memory full of players that went pro and have excelled at the pro level while Murray played on a horrible team that i bet you couldn't name one player on besides Murray.
That could explain the disparity in point production, don't you think?

I think that some people see mostly a defensive defenseman in Murray and i'm not sure why, maybe based on his stats this season?
He's a very good skater, has great vision, excellent passing ability and a fairly heavy shot.
The one issue with Murray is his lack of agressiveness offensively but that might be due to him being placed in a shutdown role moreso than anything else, maybe somebody who has seen him more than me (Renegade Stylings) can confirm this.
It's highly doubtful that he ever reaches Niedermeyer's heights (few have) but i would say that he definitely has more offensive upside than Alzner.


Last edited by CupofOil: 04-02-2012 at 02:28 PM.
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04-02-2012, 03:23 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by NeilYoung View Post
Yes he is if I pulled up scouting reports from each and left the names off of them no one would know which one is which. Identical I don't see how that's a bad thing at all
a smooth skating, mobile defenseman who has a strong sense of positional awareness. He does not have a highly-developed offensive game but relies on smart, quick passes and anticipation to both support the attack and to prevent opposing scoring chances. He is not a very physical player but is disciplined and rarely takes unnecessary penalties... plays a defense-first game but can contribute to the offense when the situation warrants.


His skating ability and decision-making on the ice are outstanding, and his puckmoving ability is arguably his best talent...Even though is offensive ability is off the charts, [he] doesn’t shy away from physical play, and always seems to be in the right position.


Never seems to make a mistake defensively – always makes the smart, safe play… Has superb vision that can’t be taught. Plays a very cerebral game and hockey sense is off the charts – has the ability to read a couple of plays ahead of everyone else and easily blunt the attack… Not a huge banger, but rubs men out along the walls and is flawless positionally.


Is at his best when used (a lot) in a shutdown role. Has good size, mobility and the potential to play an all-around game from the back end. He limits mistakes and is strong with the puck in his own zone.

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04-02-2012, 04:10 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
Niedermayer was an offensive force with the Blazers. 82 points in 57 games? Not even close to Murray. Murphy compares there but he isn't even close to a Niedermayer talent in his own zone.
Im not saying he is as Nied's was offensively at the same age but Murray and Niedermayer's Jr teams are polar opposites. The Silvertips have been offensively challenged during Murray's time here and The Blazers were like the St. John Sea dogs of now. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...009951991.html

I think Murray's o-game is going to surprise some people next year (hopefully) Less flashy players always get underrated.

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04-02-2012, 04:15 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
I have my own scouting reports..that I've done myself...and I don't see him as Karl Alzner.

I don't like basing my own opinions off of what others have written.

And I never said that Karl Alzner was a bad player. He's a fine player and one that would be a great guy to model your game after.
Do you think the Oilers would be warrented taking him over Grigorenko/Yakupov at #2 if it comes to that?

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04-02-2012, 04:19 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
Kamloops also scored 385 goals that season, Windsor scored 331 in Fowler's draft year, while Everett scored 185 this year. 31 points in 46 games on a team that was close to the bottom in league scoring isn't too shabby. It might be unfair to compare as the WHL (like the NHL) has seen scoring drop. Portland led the way with 328 goals this year. In 1990-91, 9 of the 14 teams had more.
You don't think Fowler and Niedermayer had anything to do with that? I'm just saying. We'll see when he hits the NHL.

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04-02-2012, 04:25 PM
  #218
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Do you think the Oilers would be warrented taking him over Grigorenko/Yakupov at #2 if it comes to that?
No. I would trade back.

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04-02-2012, 04:29 PM
  #219
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No. I would trade back.
I have a feeling we'll be drafting 3rd overall anyway so we likely won't have to trade back. I've always wanted Grigs more than Murray, but the more I read about Murray the more I'd rather him.

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04-02-2012, 04:48 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by jmoss45 View Post
Have you seen Murray play? I may be off with my Letang comparison but much of what you said about Murray contradicts what other scouting reports have said, including that of Renegade Stylings. Murray's shot just got voted as one of the best in the WHL by the coaches in players. I don't think Letang has that big a bomb? Also, if you watch the highlights from Murray's last playoff game of the year, he scores a nice goal off the rush.

As far as the physical edge I don't disagree with what has been stated. I just don't like the homerun comparisons of "he's the next Crosby/Neidermayer/Lidstrom" because those are generational talents, and achieving a talent level like Letang/Pietrangelo is more realistic IMO.
Honestly, I don't see him being as good as Letang or Pietrangelo, those are 2 of the 5 best d-men in the game right now.

I've seen Murray play, if you're expecting Letang then have fun with that, but I won't because I know that's not the kind of player he is. Murray has a nice shot I guess you could say, he gets it on net and it's low and hard but it's nothing insane. And just because he scored a nice goal off the rush in one game doesn't mean he's a rushing defenseman. He's a great smooth and crisp passer who finds guys and can pass it through two zones to a guy that's moving. I think he's going to be a really good, solid player but nothing groundbreaking.

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04-02-2012, 05:03 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
You don't think Fowler and Niedermayer had anything to do with that? I'm just saying. We'll see when he hits the NHL.
Not to diminish what they added, but a team scoring 2x the goals than Everett did is more than one player. The WHL was a much more offensive league back then, so it was easier to rack up points. That's like trying to compare Ray Whitney (185 points in his draft year) to any of the recent high picks from the WHL.

As others have pointed out, Fowler had a pretty stacked team for junior standards. He had the 1st overall pick in Taylor Hall as well as a couple first rounders in Ryan Ellis and Greg Nemisz. Adam Henrique was a terrific junior player and is doing well as a rookie in the NHL now.

Then you take a look at Everett's roster and they don't have a whole lot. Their top scorer is Josh Birkholz who was a 3rd round pick by Florida.

Mike Green didn't put up eye popping numbers during his draft year, but he was on almost a historically bad offensive team that only scored 140 goals all season.

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04-02-2012, 05:11 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by PETRYDISH View Post
I have a feeling we'll be drafting 3rd overall anyway so we likely won't have to trade back. I've always wanted Grigs more than Murray, but the more I read about Murray the more I'd rather him.
I just think they need a defenceman. With guys like Rielly, Trouba, Murray, Dumba, Ceci and Reinhart floating around the top 15, they can afford to trade back and get a great defenceman in that range, while still getting another asset.

If they are picking 2nd, I would hope they would deal it and move back a spot or a few.

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04-02-2012, 05:20 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
Not to diminish what they added, but a team scoring 2x the goals than Everett did is more than one player. The WHL was a much more offensive league back then, so it was easier to rack up points. That's like trying to compare Ray Whitney (185 points in his draft year) to any of the recent high picks from the WHL.

As others have pointed out, Fowler had a pretty stacked team for junior standards. He had the 1st overall pick in Taylor Hall as well as a couple first rounders in Ryan Ellis and Greg Nemisz. Adam Henrique was a terrific junior player and is doing well as a rookie in the NHL now.

Then you take a look at Everett's roster and they don't have a whole lot. Their top scorer is Josh Birkholz who was a 3rd round pick by Florida.

Mike Green didn't put up eye popping numbers during his draft year, but he was on almost a historically bad offensive team that only scored 140 goals all season.
I'll let him show me I'm wrong. I'll be happy if he does....especially if he's a Duck. Fowler/Murray would be deadly.

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04-02-2012, 05:56 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post

Then you take a look at Everett's roster and they don't have a whole lot. Their top scorer is Josh Birkholz who was a 3rd round pick by Florida.

Mike Green didn't put up eye popping numbers during his draft year, but he was on almost a historically bad offensive team that only scored 140 goals all season.
Thats a good comparison, considering how bad both teams were in each guys draft year. When moved to a prolific scoring team, Green produced huge numbers. The box scores/stats aren't always indicative of the talent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
I just think they need a defenceman. With guys like Rielly, Trouba, Murray, Dumba, Ceci and Reinhart floating around the top 15, they can afford to trade back and get a great defenceman in that range, while still getting another asset.

If they are picking 2nd, I would hope they would deal it and move back a spot or a few.
I agree 100% that Edmonton needs D most, but I don't think trading back is wise. They got burned in a trade back for Parise a few years back, so the fan base will hate the idea. Also, the Oilers aren't in need of the kind of asset they would receive from trading the 2nd pick for 4-8th. They need the top flight kind of D, and I don't think they could risk losing out out Murray/whoever they have their eye on while picking up a 2nd/middling prospect/ or even a late 1st.

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04-02-2012, 06:06 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by jmoss45 View Post
I agree 100% that Edmonton needs D most, but I don't think trading back is wise. They got burned in a trade back for Parise a few years back, so the fan base will hate the idea. Also, the Oilers aren't in need of the kind of asset they would receive from trading the 2nd pick for 4-8th. They need the top flight kind of D, and I don't think they could risk losing out out Murray/whoever they have their eye on while picking up a 2nd/middling prospect/ or even a late 1st.
Well they would only trade back if they were confident enough they could still get the guy (or one of the GUYS) they wanted.

If they like 3 guys fairly equally and are looking to move from 2nd to 5th, pull the trigger.

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