HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Notices

Sami Salo...injured again during summer training (achilles tendon busted)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-23-2010, 07:35 PM
  #176
tantalum
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Missouri
Posts: 10,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
People seem to be anxious to move KB, to the point that they are over-looking some pretty spotty play by Rome and Alberts. I'd rather keep the depth we have on D and cross that bridge when we come to it...
The problem with that is when we reach that bridge Bieksa, out of cap necessity, may be a straight no holds barred get White and Rahimi back salary dump. This perhaps buys Gillis some time but I don't think his strategy changes that much with regard to Bieksa.

It appears as though his future plans involve going forward with Ballard, Hamhuis, Edler and likely Ehrhoff (contract demands pending) as his top 4. Salo is not in those future plans nor is Bieksa. He was prepared to deal Bieksa knowing full well Salo is injury prone and not getting younger. The Salo injury came early but I don't think it changes his ultimate thinking.

tantalum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 07:41 PM
  #177
John Swartzwelder
MOAR TUFFNESS!!!1
 
John Swartzwelder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,358
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
People seem to be anxious to move KB, to the point that they are over-looking some pretty spotty play by Rome and Alberts. I'd rather keep the depth we have on D and cross that bridge when we come to it...
and keep 9 defensemen?


John Swartzwelder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 08:08 PM
  #178
Lucbourdon
Kefka cheers for Van
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 38,853
vCash: 50
First telephone conversation with gillis since the injury

Salo:Hey Mike
Gillis:Hey sami, How are you doing?

Salo:Well....
Gillis:Oh god, what is injured now

Salo:My Achilles tendon..
Gillis:How long will you be out for?

Salo:Around four months
Gillis:............................

*Bieksa picks up phone on other line, and thinks...*
Bieksa: (I wonder if this means I will stay in Vancouver)

Salo: Sorry for about this Mike
Gillis: ....I will talk to you later.

Salo: *hangs up*
Gillis:*hangs up*

Bieksa turns to wife: Cancel those plane tickets to anaheim please.
Wife: :O

Lucbourdon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 08:44 PM
  #179
Hammer79
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kelowna
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,942
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
Spotty play from Rome @$750k = tolerable
Spotty play from Alberts @$1.050m = somewhat tolerable
Spotty play from Bieksa @$3.75m = So long, farewell, auf weidersehen, good-bye.
Except that Rome and Alberts are pretty much playing at their potential. KB just came back from two serious injuries and was a 40 pt D-man twice in his young career, and would have been on pace last year if not injured. It'd be quite a stretch to call Rome or Alberts potential 40 pt D-men. KB has a lot more offensive upside. His brain cramps last season probably had more to do with the amount of time off he's had in the past two season's with those freak injuries. These problems can be corrected with coaching and a good off-season regimen. I don't see Rome and Alberts turning into 40 pt defensemen, even with coaching or an off-season regimen.

Besides that, Salo still counts against the cap while on LTIR, and injury replacement room doesn't kick in until the Canucks are at the cap ceiling. If they don't spend it, it's gone. There is no accumulation of cap room from a player on LTIR.

Quote:
and keep 9 defensemen?
Salo's out probably until December or January at the earliest. Rome and Bieksa played several games at forward, and we need grit for the 4th line... Just saying, there are options to keep the depth on D, since this team's D apparently takes 'Murphy's Law' to a whole new level.

Quote:
The problem with that is when we reach that bridge Bieksa, out of cap necessity, may be a straight no holds barred get White and Rahimi back salary dump. This perhaps buys Gillis some time but I don't think his strategy changes that much with regard to Bieksa.
Bieksa is UFA at the end of the season anyway, his trade value is already hampered by that right now.

Hammer79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 09:17 PM
  #180
alternate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,881
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
I don't see Rome and Alberts turning into 40 pt defensemen, even with coaching or an off-season regimen.
explain to me again why we need them to? we already have 4 guys that are or could be 40 point dmen in Edler, Ehrhoff, Ballard and Hamhuis. overspending on a 3rd pairing guy that brings even more offense to the backend--at the expense of defense mind you--is a luxury we can neither afford nor need.

Rome + Alberts + SOB = $3.4m
Bieksa = $3.75m

nuff said.

but in case it isn't, put it this way, we need a 40 pt winger for the 3rd line WAY more than we need another 40 pt dman for the third pairing.

Quote:
Bieksa is UFA at the end of the season anyway, his trade value is already hampered by that right now.
maybe, maybe not. this isn't a deadline deal where you only get the player for a few weeks. whoever acquires Bieksa will get a full season, and having that contract (potentially) come off the books might be a selling feature. no long term commitment if Bieksa isn't a good fit, and if he his then you have the opportunity to re-sign him at a cap figure that works for your salary structure. some GMs might see KB's contract situation as a positive, or at least not a major negative.

as for Salo, sucks big time. silver lining I guess is this rupture is WAY better than his last rupture.

Achilles tendons are pretty serious injuries. I guess of all the major sports, hockey is probably the one that puts the least amount of strain on an achilles tendon, so that's a plus. but at this point in his career, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Salo is having a serious heart to heart with himself about whether he wants to go through the rehab and come back at all. It's a very real possibility that Salo has played his last game as a Canuck.

if this injury keeps Bieksa in a Canuck uniform, I'll never forgive Sami Salo.

alternate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 09:24 PM
  #181
MS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 11,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
Except that Rome and Alberts are pretty much playing at their potential. KB just came back from two serious injuries and was a 40 pt D-man twice in his young career, and would have been on pace last year if not injured. It'd be quite a stretch to call Rome or Alberts potential 40 pt D-men. KB has a lot more offensive upside. His brain cramps last season probably had more to do with the amount of time off he's had in the past two season's with those freak injuries. These problems can be corrected with coaching and a good off-season regimen. I don't see Rome and Alberts turning into 40 pt defensemen, even with coaching or an off-season regimen.
The injuries are a pathetic excuse.

Forget the end of the season. What's his excuse for the first 40 games when he was fully healthy, and a full two years removed from the only serious injury of his pro career? He was absolutely dreadful for those 40 games, as bad or worse than when he came back from his injury. If anything he was actually *better* when he first came back in March before regressing again.

He was also a complete trainwreck for the first month of the 07-08 season before his first injury, easily the worst player on the team. If you go into the archives here you'll see a ton of discussion of his terrible play at that time, as well.

If Bieksa had only played poorly this spring after returning from injury, everyone would be giving him a free pass. The problem is that he's been awful for 3 years now (save for one excellent stretch of about 20 games in 2008-09) whether he's been healthy or not. What we saw after his injury was exactly what we were seeing before. A dumb, lazy, soft player.

MS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 09:31 PM
  #182
AirMinivan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Victoria, BC Canada
Posts: 112
vCash: 500
I wonder if we'll have to keep Bieksa now so that we at least have one RHS on the team.

Is it that big of a deal?

AirMinivan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 09:31 PM
  #183
alternate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,881
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS View Post
A dumb, lazy, soft player.
soft!!???

Bieksa's the grittiest smallish offensive defencemen in the entire world!!!!!

just because he never wins a puck battle in the corner and is unable to clear the crease (or even tie his man up) doesn't change the fact he won a few fights 4 years ago.

alternate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 09:37 PM
  #184
Hammer79
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kelowna
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,942
vCash: 500
Quote:
but in case it isn't, put it this way, we need a 40 pt winger for the 3rd line WAY more than we need another 40 pt dman for the third pairing.
Bieksa can play forward. It's not like it hasn't been done before, it seemed to work out fine for Byfuglien...

Quote:
maybe, maybe not. this isn't a deadline deal where you only get the player for a few weeks.
I'd argue that his value would be higher at the deadline, and that's potentially about the time we'd see Salo getting ready to come back anyway. Why is his value higher then? Another team would only have to pay his salary for a couple months instead of the whole season. GM's can get into desperate situations when their line-up isn't working out, and worry about their jobs, or just think their team needs an extra piece. I think the potential to fleece another team in a deal would be higher at the deadline than now, when GM's are more willing to look internally to fill holes in their line-up.

Quote:
Forget the end of the season.
You mean the playoffs, where he scored 8 pts in 12 playoff games while only taking 14 PIM? Yeah, a Bieksa hater would probably want to forget that.

Quote:
What's his excuse for the first 40 games when he was fully healthy, and a full two years removed from the only serious injury of his pro career? He was absolutely dreadful for those 40 games, as bad or worse than when he came back from his injury. If anything he was actually *better* when he first came back in March before regressing again.
I remember Rome being a train-wreck at the beginning of the season. Nobody seems to be running him out of town... In 08-09 he had 43 pts.

Quote:
The problem is that he's been awful for 3 years now (save for one excellent stretch of about 20 games in 2008-09) whether he's been healthy or not.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=63159

From looking at the stats, what I see is consistency in the offensive dept, along with a consistent drop in his PIM. Looks to me like he's maturing as a player and taking less dumb penalties. Perhaps you are confusing him with SOB?

Hammer79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 09:39 PM
  #185
Bgav
We Stylin'
 
Bgav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,099
vCash: 1752
**** this better not mean we keep bieksa.

Bgav is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 09:45 PM
  #186
alternate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,881
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
Bieksa can play forward. It's not like it hasn't been done before, it seemed to work out fine for Byfuglien...
ya, didn't work out nearly as well for Bieksa last season when they tried that. besides, KB makes way too much money to be a bottom 6 forward.


Quote:
I'd argue that his value would be higher at the deadline, and that's potentially about the time we'd see Salo getting ready to come back anyway. Why is his value higher then? Another team would only have to pay his salary for a couple months instead of the whole season. GM's can get into desperate situations when their line-up isn't working out, and worry about their jobs, or just think their team needs an extra piece. I think the potential to fleece another team in a deal would be higher at the deadline than now, when GM's are more willing to look internally to fill holes in their line-up.
you could be right. if Bieksa isn't having another abysmal season and if he doesn't get hurt before the trade deadline. people seem to have forgotten that even before the skate lacerations Bieksa was missing games (and playoff games to boot) due to injuries to his ribs/shoulder/ankle etc. He's not a very durable player.

imo it's not worth the risk. if things go south, you get nothing back for Bieksa. I'd rather move him now while there's interest.

alternate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 10:04 PM
  #187
MS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 11,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
You mean the playoffs, where he scored 8 pts in 12 playoff games while only taking 14 PIM? Yeah, a Bieksa hater would probably want to forget that.
No-one who actually watched the playoffs would list them as an asset to his resume. He was dreadful and pretty much single-handedly cost the team 3 games with boneheaded play.

He had one great game in game 5 vs. Chicago and was otherwise a nightmare. And that's been the story of his last 3 years - the odd game where he's all over the place and looks like an offensive weapon against substantially more games where he looks completely clueless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79
I remember Rome being a train-wreck at the beginning of the season. Nobody seems to be running him out of town... In 08-09 he had 43 pts.
Rome was a rooke making $550k playing once in every 5 games. To even compare the two is ridiculous.

Again, Bieksa was absolutely awful for the first 40 games of last season, and the injuries can't be used as an excuse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=63159

From looking at the stats, what I see is consistency in the offensive dept, along with a consistent drop in his PIM. Looks to me like he's maturing as a player and taking less dumb penalties. Perhaps you are confusing him with SOB?
He scored 40 points by getting first-unit PP minutes all year, something pretty much every defender getting consistent first-unit PP minutes manages.

'Maturing as a player' doesn't mean getting worse and worse defensively every year you're in the league. Yes, he doesn't take as many penalties as he used to, but he hasn't done anything else to indicate he's matured.

MS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 10:31 PM
  #188
billvanseattle
Registered User
 
billvanseattle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: bellingham
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,031
vCash: 500
The sky is falling

I have never had the hate on for KB that others seem to, but at this point I don't understand the problem.

If we can trade Bieska for value (and there is every indication that we will) then most of our cap worries are somewhat alleviated.

I want Willie back, hope he will take a hometown discount. If he gets another concussion, he retires.

We play with an undermanned defense for a few months, should still be able to do very well in the standings (if missing one player is the difference we are not a contender) and get Sami back (or have signed Willie) for the 2nd half and the playoffs.

billvanseattle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 11:15 PM
  #189
David71
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,159
vCash: 500
Mr. glass gets hurt again.... NO SURPRISE. Bieska can still be dealt.

David71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 11:38 PM
  #190
Amused To Death
Registered User
 
Amused To Death's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Victoria
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 1,265
vCash: 1335
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS View Post
No-one who actually watched the playoffs would list them as an asset to his resume. He was dreadful and pretty much single-handedly cost the team 3 games with boneheaded play.

He had one great game in game 5 vs. Chicago and was otherwise a nightmare. And that's been the story of his last 3 years - the odd game where he's all over the place and looks like an offensive weapon against substantially more games where he looks completely clueless.



Rome was a rooke making $550k playing once in every 5 games. To even compare the two is ridiculous.

Again, Bieksa was absolutely awful for the first 40 games of last season, and the injuries can't be used as an excuse.



He scored 40 points by getting first-unit PP minutes all year, something pretty much every defender getting consistent first-unit PP minutes manages.

'Maturing as a player' doesn't mean getting worse and worse defensively every year you're in the league. Yes, he doesn't take as many penalties as he used to, but he hasn't done anything else to indicate he's matured.
To add to this...there was also that interview where he basically claimed there was nothing wrong with his game and he wasn't going to be working towards improving what he was doing. Regardless of a person being inept at defense...to ignore ones own flaws and claim they don't exist is even more terrifying. There's no accountability there and no real room to grow. What he is now is what he's going to be the rest of his career as an NHLer. Get him away from the Canucks. Our bottom-pairing doesn't need defensively liable players that make stupid plays. He makes 3.75 million. We're much better off investing our money in a good 3rd/4th liner, or perhaps the best Gatorade boy in the league. We don't need an idiot, we have Alberts to fill the void for that one.

Amused To Death is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2010, 12:30 AM
  #191
Hammer79
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kelowna
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,942
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amused To Death View Post
To add to this...there was also that interview where he basically claimed there was nothing wrong with his game and he wasn't going to be working towards improving what he was doing. Regardless of a person being inept at defense...to ignore ones own flaws and claim they don't exist is even more terrifying. There's no accountability there and no real room to grow. What he is now is what he's going to be the rest of his career as an NHLer. Get him away from the Canucks. Our bottom-pairing doesn't need defensively liable players that make stupid plays. He makes 3.75 million. We're much better off investing our money in a good 3rd/4th liner, or perhaps the best Gatorade boy in the league. We don't need an idiot, we have Alberts to fill the void for that one.
Because he's going to give some random reporter an opening to bash him right? As long as he is doing what the coaching staff wants, it's all good.

Quote:
No-one who actually watched the playoffs would list them as an asset to his resume. He was dreadful and pretty much single-handedly cost the team 3 games with boneheaded play.

He had one great game in game 5 vs. Chicago and was otherwise a nightmare. And that's been the story of his last 3 years - the odd game where he's all over the place and looks like an offensive weapon against substantially more games where he looks completely clueless.
I watched the games, I kind of wonder what team you were watching though... To put it all on KB's shoulders is what is ridiculous. PK forwards were the biggest problem, not the play of the remaining D.

Quote:
Rome was a rooke making $550k playing once in every 5 games. To even compare the two is ridiculous.

Again, Bieksa was absolutely awful for the first 40 games of last season, and the injuries can't be used as an excuse.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/...Q.WMHumt5ivLYF

Rome played 49 games, so over half, not 20%...

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/playe...Q.WMHumt7CfgM6

Maybe you should read the game-log?

16 points in 40 games, was still on pace for 33 points.

Quote:
He scored 40 points by getting first-unit PP minutes all year, something pretty much every defender getting consistent first-unit PP minutes manages.

'Maturing as a player' doesn't mean getting worse and worse defensively every year you're in the league. Yes, he doesn't take as many penalties as he used to, but he hasn't done anything else to indicate he's matured.
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/stats/byposition?pos=D

24 D-men managed 40 points last year, divide that by 30 teams, so not even every team has 1 D-man that can get 40 points. On the maturity front, at least KB isn't getting suspended for being late to practice like SOB.

Hammer79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2010, 01:01 AM
  #192
BloatedGuppy
Registered User
 
BloatedGuppy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,934
vCash: 500
It's fairly amusing how many people in this thread consider an injury to Sami Salo to be a surprise that would throw a monkey wrench into Gillis' plans regarding the Canucks defense. As if this were a scenario he never envisioned.

BloatedGuppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2010, 01:23 AM
  #193
Amused To Death
Registered User
 
Amused To Death's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Victoria
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 1,265
vCash: 1335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
Because he's going to give some random reporter an opening to bash him right?
Bieksa was playing horribly up until his laceration, and he failed whatsoever to square any blame on himself? Fair enough, he didn't want a reporter to tease him, he probably can't handle criticism from a fat slob
Quote:
16 points in 40 games, was still on pace for 33 points.
Considering you're replying to MS' post on Bieksa playing horribly with a stat sheet, I think you're falling for the fallacy that good stats mean good play. Bieksa was horrible last season. Horrible.
Quote:
24 D-men managed 40 points last year, divide that by 30 teams, so not even every team has 1 D-man that can get 40 points.
Perhaps 6 teams had a D-man with 40 point potential last season, but those 6 D-men got injuries preventing them from getting 40 points...like Bieksa did?
Quote:
On the maturity front, at least KB isn't getting suspended for being late to practice like SOB.
At least SOB plays like a top-4 defenseman in his own end.

EDIT:
Quote:
Rome played 49 games, so over half, not 20%...

Maybe you should read the game-log?
At the start of the season, I think that Rome WAS playing about every 5 games, but when injuries hit the Vancouver blueline later on (for instance, your pal KB, Willie, etc.) he played a lot more...Maybe you should actually watch the Canucks more, rather than rely so much on internet accounts of them?


Last edited by Amused To Death: 07-24-2010 at 01:29 AM.
Amused To Death is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2010, 05:15 AM
  #194
Finnpin
Registered User
 
Finnpin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Helsinki
Country: Finland
Posts: 8,496
vCash: 500
While Sami is now in Finland he should have the surgery with Finnish achilles tendon guru Dr. Sakari Orava who operated for example David Beckham's achilles tendon few months ago...that Doc
has other stars and superstars in his CV...he is the best in the business.

Finnpin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2010, 06:22 AM
  #195
Hammer79
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kelowna
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,942
vCash: 500
Quote:
Bieksa was playing horribly up until his laceration, and he failed whatsoever to square any blame on himself? Fair enough, he didn't want a reporter to tease him, he probably can't handle criticism from a fat slob
I didn't hear the quote, I'm just guessing. Most players keep their cards close to their chests though and stick with well worn cliches.

Quote:
Considering you're replying to MS' post on Bieksa playing horribly with a stat sheet, I think you're falling for the fallacy that good stats mean good play. Bieksa was horrible last season. Horrible.
I thought Rome was brutal for most of the season, but by the end he started to turn it around. Players go on hot streaks and cold streaks, that's just the way it goes. His decision making can be improved with coaching and training hard in the off-season. Alberts, Rome and SOB however aren't likely to morph into 40 pt D-men, even with the best coaching and training.

It's easy for fans to cherry pick plays and point to that as proof that a player isn't going to ever play up to their potential. I went to GM place/Roger's Arena for a game against Calgary, and I was 50 feet away when Edler coughed up the puck to Cammalleri in his own zone, allowing him to get his hat trick game winner on Sanford. For a while (not anymore) I thought Edler was overrated too.

Quote:
Perhaps 6 teams had a D-man with 40 point potential last season, but those 6 D-men got injuries preventing them from getting 40 points...like Bieksa did?
30 divided by 30 still equals on average 1 per team. For the first time that I can recall in years, the Canucks are actually deep in this category.

Quote:
At least SOB plays like a top-4 defenseman in his own end.
SOB still takes too many undisciplined penalties and was suspended by the team for a week for his conduct off ice. I'm pretty sure he was in the box when the Hawks scored the series winner in '09... How many top 4 D-men take penalties like that with the series hanging in the balance?

Quote:
At the start of the season, I think that Rome WAS playing about every 5 games, but when injuries hit the Vancouver blueline later on (for instance, your pal KB, Willie, etc.) he played a lot more...Maybe you should actually watch the Canucks more, rather than rely so much on internet accounts of them?
I didn't miss a game last year. If I wasn't able to get to a TV, I listened on the radio and watched the highlights.

Coach AV said that he was becoming a top 4 D-man by the end of the season. I don't necessarily agree, but I do think he was vastly improved. I'm just using stats to show concrete proof, since evaluation of players can be quite subjective by fans. The fans don't hear the coach's instructions the the players, that's a pretty big gap that can allow a lot of second guessing.

Hammer79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2010, 06:26 AM
  #196
Vajakki
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country:
Posts: 1,247
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
I watched the games, I kind of wonder what team you were watching though... To put it all on KB's shoulders is what is ridiculous. PK forwards were the biggest problem, not the play of the remaining D.
I'm pretty sure majority would say what team you were watching if you honestly can debate whether Bieksa was one of the main reasons we got eliminated or not.

When you have a player in your team whose ECHL-level braincramps singlehandedly cost 1-2 goals per playoff game, it makes beating a team like the Blackhawks a bit too hard. And please, don't get started with point statistics. Might as well check what's our record with Bieksa in the lineup and without him?

There's a reason why teams send scouts to actual games instead of just reading scoresheets. Hockey is a game of mistakes and when you can minimize those there's good chance you will win something. I personally don't see that possible with Bieksa playing 18+min/game.

And of course there were other issues too, and some of those have been addressed during this offseason (like getting Kesler and Burrows to full health, and adding Malhotra to second PK unit). The defence has also been upgraded (which IMO was needed more than adding PK forwards), and having 3.75mil guy playing 12 minutes a night isn't very healthy in salary cap era.

Vajakki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2010, 06:59 AM
  #197
Hammer79
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kelowna
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,942
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vajakki View Post
I'm pretty sure majority would say what team you were watching if you honestly can debate whether Bieksa was one of the main reasons we got eliminated or not.

When you have a player in your team whose ECHL-level braincramps singlehandedly cost 1-2 goals per playoff game, it makes beating a team like the Blackhawks a bit too hard. And please, don't get started with point statistics. Might as well check what's our record with Bieksa in the lineup and without him?

There's a reason why teams send scouts to actual games instead of just reading scoresheets. Hockey is a game of mistakes and when you can minimize those there's good chance you will win something. I personally don't see that possible with Bieksa playing 18+min/game.

And of course there were other issues too, and some of those have been addressed during this offseason (like getting Kesler and Burrows to full health, and adding Malhotra to second PK unit). The defence has also been upgraded (which IMO was needed more than adding PK forwards), and having 3.75mil guy playing 12 minutes a night isn't very healthy in salary cap era.
I don't care if you or the majority of fans are incorrect. The PK was sub 70% for large portions of the playoffs, so should we jettison everyone who played D, or do we look at what lead to the scoring chances against? (3rd line and PK forwards) Why didn't Gillis retain RJ or Wellwood, or specifically mention the need to upgrade and get more grit on the bottom two lines, if it really was the D's fault?

I know you said you didn't care about stats, but if Bieksa was indeed 'ECHL level', why was he third on the team in average ice time in the playoffs? Wouldn't AV, who has to evaluate his player's performance on the fly, have benched KB if his assessment was anywhere close to yours? He was also third on the team in shooting %, and tied for fourth in goals scored. Oh yeah, and he was also +2, tied with Salo. Edler was +9 and had a very good run, but even he has had the occasional off game.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

Hammer79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2010, 10:42 AM
  #198
tantalum
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Missouri
Posts: 10,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloatedGuppy View Post
It's fairly amusing how many people in this thread consider an injury to Sami Salo to be a surprise that would throw a monkey wrench into Gillis' plans regarding the Canucks defense. As if this were a scenario he never envisioned.
Agreed and I think I mentioned it last night in a thread or two. Gillis seems to be comfortable going forward with Hamhuis, Ballard, Edler and I think Ehrhoff if he will sign a reasonable extension. Neither Salo nor Bieksa are in the long term plans. Bieksa has been shopped to move before this season starts and Salo was going to be counted on to miss a good chunk of games. That hasn't changed much other than maybe buying Gillis a bit more time to make a deal. It may simply just bring the value up a bit right now as now teams know Gillis doesn't have to omve Bieksa right away. If another team wants Bieksa in the lineup from the start of the season they now have to put their best offer forward.

tantalum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2010, 12:01 PM
  #199
Mizral
Registered User
 
Mizral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Earth, MW
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,108
vCash: 500
Bieksa will be dealt one way or the other but if Salo is indeed not able to start the season I actually see some advantages for keeping Bieksa if only for a few months.

First, it's a contract year. Bieksa has a lot to prove this season if he wants to keep making big NHL money on his next contract as a UFA. As he can likely see his future is not with this team but that won't stop him from playing hard. As always with Bieksa the problem hasn't been his lack of trying, it's his mistakes. However I'm willing to try him out for a couple of months and then offload him for nothing (draft pick). The upshot of this though is that if he plays very well we might be able to get a nice bottom-6 forward who can improve our depth where we need it most.

OTOH, if Salo starts at the beginning of the year than it's a very hard argument to keep Bieksa, especially if Mitchell comes back healthy as well.

Mizral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2010, 12:03 PM
  #200
metric
Registered User
 
metric's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,519
vCash: 500
The only advantage of keeping Bieksa is if he turns his game completely around. Otherwise you're not going to have any takers for him during the season most likely, and if you do the return will be low. At best you can move him at the deadline, but then you need to hope Salo is out until the deadline otherwise something has to give when Salo comes off LTI.

metric is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:04 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.