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Proposal: Buffalo - New York Islanders

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Old
05-27-2004, 08:51 AM
  #1
RoyIsALegend*
 
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Proposal: Buffalo - New York Islanders

Seems like my Buffalo - Vancouver deal was fair in both teams' eyes, except the Canucks likely couldn't take on $4.75 M in salary.

How would something like this look?

To New York:
RW Miroslav Satan - 29 years old, $4.75 M
D Brad Brown - 28 years old, $750K

To Buffalo:
D Adrian Aucoin - 30 years old, $3.25 M
2004 NYI 3rd round pick

Buffalo reasoning: The Sabres could desperately use a top-end right-handed defenseman as, despite what many may think, Jeff Jillson does not provide that. Adrian Aucoin can be an unrestricted free agent next season as he missed out on UFA status this year by two days. The Sabres certainly have the money to bring in an Aucoin type of player, especially if they're moving Miro Satan in the deal.

NYI reasoning: With four top-end defensemen and Roman Hamrlik and Aucoin both being RFAs this summer, the Islanders may look to peddle one of them. This team's core is at the age where dealing Aucoin for draft picks and prospects would not benefit them whatsoever. Satan provides the first top-line scoring winger presence in a long time for the Islanders, and can put an end to the experiment of Mattias Weinhandl on the top line. As I've seen many Islander fans mention, the team could use a scoring winger along with a physical defenseman and they acquire both of those in this trade.

Thoughts?


Last edited by RoyIsALegend*: 05-27-2004 at 09:03 AM.
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Old
05-27-2004, 09:11 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
To New York:
RW Miroslav Satan - 29 years old, $4.75 M
D Brad Brown - 28 years old, $750K

To Buffalo:
D Adrian Aucoin - 30 years old, $3.25 M
2004 NYI 3rd round pick
I'd rather do Satan for Aucoin straight up. Both teams get what they need.

I don't see the difference between the two enough to balance a 3rd rounder for Brown.

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05-27-2004, 09:14 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHorse
I'd rather do Satan for Aucoin straight up. Both teams get what they need.

I don't see the difference between the two enough to balance a 3rd rounder for Brown.
I only added that aspect since Adrian Aucoin could leave the team at the end of next season while Miroslav Satan still has 2 years to fullfill.

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05-27-2004, 09:15 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
I only added that aspect since Adrian Aucoin could leave the team at the end of next season while Miroslav Satan still has 2 years to fullfill.
Aucoin has arbitration, so he could be awarded multiple years, right?

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05-27-2004, 09:48 AM
  #5
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Close, but replace Brown with Campbell or Boulton (your choice). If the Sabres re-sign Z, their defense is looking pretty sweet:

Zhitnik / Jillson
Kalinin / Aucoin
McKee / Brown

extras: Fitzpatrick, Patrick, Tallinder, Campbell (if Boulton chosen).

I would play Jillson with Z because every defenseman paired with Z plays very well, which helps his development.

And Satan is due to be paid $5.25M next year, not $4.75M.

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05-27-2004, 10:17 AM
  #6
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i like it, it solidifies our defense. but satan's lost offense could hurt. that worries me.

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05-27-2004, 10:19 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Close, but replace Brown with Campbell or Boulton (your choice). If the Sabres re-sign Z, their defense is looking pretty sweet:

Zhitnik / Jillson
Kalinin / Aucoin
McKee / Brown

extras: Fitzpatrick, Patrick, Tallinder, Campbell (if Boulton chosen).

I would play Jillson with Z because every defenseman paired with Z plays very well, which helps his development.

And Satan is due to be paid $5.25M next year, not $4.75M.
Your choice of Campbell and/or Boulton and you can make the pick late or even keep it all together if you take Boulton. I'm all for Satan for Aucoin, but I wouldn't move Tallinder out of the regular lineup. He's made a lot of progress in his own zone and still has untapped offensive ability. Here's my pairings:

1a. Zhitnik/Jillson- I like the idea of making these two workhorses play together and hope that Jeff develops like Kalinin did this year. And when Z got injured, Kalinin proved he can still play well when he wasn't at Zhitnik's side. That makes me feel more comfotable with breaking them up.

1b. Kalinin/Aucoin-These guys may even be 1a or I think they could look good with the first two in any combination. With the ice time Aucoin, Zhitnik and Jillson have proven they can handle, maybe we only need four or five defensemen dressed on any given night

2. McKee/Tallinder (Brown)- Adding Aucoin would make our defense a strength rather than a weakness as it was for most of last year. I don't want to sit Brown or Tallinder, but I think Ruff can hopefully create a good rotation to keep everyone fresh and healthy. McKeee and Brown brought a shut down combo we lost when Warrener was dealt and a toughness we usually lack. But I'm still very high on Tallinder and think there's some potential to be great that we haven't seen yet.

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05-27-2004, 10:20 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Seems like my Buffalo - Vancouver deal was fair in both teams' eyes, except the Canucks likely couldn't take on $4.75 M in salary.

How would something like this look?

To New York:
RW Miroslav Satan - 29 years old, $4.75 M
D Brad Brown - 28 years old, $750K

To Buffalo:
D Adrian Aucoin - 30 years old, $3.25 M
2004 NYI 3rd round pick

Buffalo reasoning: The Sabres could desperately use a top-end right-handed defenseman as, despite what many may think, Jeff Jillson does not provide that. Adrian Aucoin can be an unrestricted free agent next season as he missed out on UFA status this year by two days. The Sabres certainly have the money to bring in an Aucoin type of player, especially if they're moving Miro Satan in the deal.

NYI reasoning: With four top-end defensemen and Roman Hamrlik and Aucoin both being RFAs this summer, the Islanders may look to peddle one of them. This team's core is at the age where dealing Aucoin for draft picks and prospects would not benefit them whatsoever. Satan provides the first top-line scoring winger presence in a long time for the Islanders, and can put an end to the experiment of Mattias Weinhandl on the top line. As I've seen many Islander fans mention, the team could use a scoring winger along with a physical defenseman and they acquire both of those in this trade.

Thoughts?

Isles aren't going to bring in a high priced player,not even if the exchange of salaries is close.They'd be tying up close to $20m in Yashin,Peca and Satan


I expect either Hamrlik or Aucoin to be dealt,but they'll want cheaper talent back.

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Old
05-27-2004, 10:23 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
Isles aren't going to bring in a high priced player,not even if the exchange of salaries is close.They'd be tying up close to $20m in Yashin,Peca and Satan
Bah that ain't nothing.. the Stars are spending 31.5 million on 4 players, and all 4 are signed for at least 2 more seasons.. 20 million for your team's top 3 players in't that much. Most playoff teams have more, though with the exception of the younger teams like Ottawa, Calgary, Tampa, etc..

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05-27-2004, 10:58 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
Isles aren't going to bring in a high priced player,not even if the exchange of salaries is close.They'd be tying up close to $20m in Yashin,Peca and Satan


I expect either Hamrlik or Aucoin to be dealt,but they'll want cheaper talent back.

I have a feeling Aucoin will be moved, although I hope it doesn't happen.

But, otherwise, I agree. If the Isles look to move a dman, they'll want younger cheaper talent in exchange. I would expect them to look for younger, less expensive and more physical dman, but perhaps one that is less effective overall.

As for Satan, I see him as a bad fit for a number of reasons 1) Too expensive, 2) A bit inconsistent. That is a problem given that the Isles also have other forwards who are inconsistent, 3) Not the physical gritty type the Isles desperately need.

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05-27-2004, 10:59 AM
  #11
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I can't see the Isles doing this because of Miroslav's salary. Other than that, it makes sense, and the Isles do need another scoring winger to play with Yashin. The Buffalo/NYI connection might be worth looking further into.

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05-27-2004, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flame_Star_Devil
I can't see the Isles doing this because of Miroslav's salary. Other than that, it makes sense, and the Isles do need another scoring winger to play with Yashin. The Buffalo/NYI connection might be worth looking further into.

What Buffalo/NYI connection do you refer to? Under the current GM the two teams have managed to pull off a grand total of one deal. I can only remember one other noteworthy deal between the teams (Pat Lafontaine) in the Isles' history.

Reiger did come up through the Isles organization but I get the sense (and I admit that I don't know from where) that he and our insane GM don't like each other very much.


Last edited by Darth Milbury: 05-27-2004 at 12:39 PM.
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05-27-2004, 12:13 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
What Buffalo/NYI connection do you refer to? Under the current GM the two teams have managed to pull off a grand total of one deal. I can only remember one noteworthy deal between the teams (Pat Lafontaine) in the Isles' history.

Reiger did come up through the Isles organization but I get the sense (and I admit that I don't know from where) that he and our insane GM don't like each other very much.

I thought Milbury fired Reiger from the front office to remove a possible replacement.It wasn't that Reiger wasn't doing a good job,but because of all the calls for MM to be fired.

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05-27-2004, 12:14 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
What Buffalo/NYI connection do you refer to? Under the current GM the two teams have managed to pull off a grand total of one deal. I can only remember one noteworthy deal between the teams (Pat Lafontaine) in the Isles' history.
You forgot that "huge" trade of Paul Kruse and Jason Holland for Jason Dawe that Milbury and Reiger pulled off. But beyond that and the Peca deal, those are the only deals that I remember between the two GMs.

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05-27-2004, 12:39 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Seems like my Buffalo - Vancouver deal was fair in both teams' eyes, except the Canucks likely couldn't take on $4.75 M in salary.

How would something like this look?

To New York:
RW Miroslav Satan - 29 years old, $4.75 M
D Brad Brown - 28 years old, $750K

To Buffalo:
D Adrian Aucoin - 30 years old, $3.25 M
2004 NYI 3rd round pick

Buffalo reasoning: The Sabres could desperately use a top-end right-handed defenseman as, despite what many may think, Jeff Jillson does not provide that. Adrian Aucoin can be an unrestricted free agent next season as he missed out on UFA status this year by two days. The Sabres certainly have the money to bring in an Aucoin type of player, especially if they're moving Miro Satan in the deal.

NYI reasoning: With four top-end defensemen and Roman Hamrlik and Aucoin both being RFAs this summer, the Islanders may look to peddle one of them. This team's core is at the age where dealing Aucoin for draft picks and prospects would not benefit them whatsoever. Satan provides the first top-line scoring winger presence in a long time for the Islanders, and can put an end to the experiment of Mattias Weinhandl on the top line. As I've seen many Islander fans mention, the team could use a scoring winger along with a physical defenseman and they acquire both of those in this trade.

Thoughts?
I would trade Hamrlik for Satan but not Aucoin. As far as the isles not taking on a Satan's salary, Crew and Darth are giving their opinion not fact, IMO the isles would do this IF the salaries were close to being equal--which in this case they are. The isles need a scoring winger and Satan fits the bill---but I would trade Hammer instead. The only thing that Wang has stated is his desire to keep his younger players not that he won't go out and get a guy with a little more salary.

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05-27-2004, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfWade
You forgot that "huge" trade of Paul Kruse and Jason Holland for Jason Dawe that Milbury and Reiger pulled off. But beyond that and the Peca deal, those are the only deals that I remember between the two GMs.
I was furious about that trade at the time, btw. Not that I cared much about Kruse and Holland, but I was made that HE had spent a third on Kruse and 2nd on Holland. The youth in this organization is depleted for a reason.

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05-27-2004, 12:58 PM
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Too much given up on Buffalo's part.

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05-27-2004, 01:36 PM
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Disagree. Aucoin > Satan, and third rounder > Brown. Buffalo would win that deal, if all contract issues were equal.

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05-27-2004, 01:50 PM
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Somewhat disagree. Aucoin is better than Satan, but I don't know if a third is worth more than Brown. Maybe equal value. Still, Buffalo wins bigtime because of the massive contract leaving, and even more than that the Isles lose because of another massive contract coming in.

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05-27-2004, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disles1

The only thing that Wang has stated is his desire to keep his younger players not that he won't go out and get a guy with a little more salary.
What Wang's said is that throwing more money into the budget isn't the way to build a contender,then he pointed out his friend Dolan's payroll/lack of success.

You're not taking into account the expected cap,Yashin's undeserved $2m raise and the minimum qualifying offers that the young players like DiPietro,Weinhandl,Asham,Papineau,Kvasha will automatically get.Yeah it's only 10% but it still adds to the payroll.

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05-27-2004, 02:09 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Disagree. Aucoin > Satan, and third rounder > Brown. Buffalo would win that deal, if all contract issues were equal.
I rarely, if ever disagree with you, but it was rather expactable with your bias against Satan ..

Satan > Aucoin.

Satan is a legit 1st line winger. No top notch one, but legit nonetheless. He's young and is a year further away from free agency, which is only getting more crucial with the CBA and potential lockout looming. Furthermore, he's not by any means on the decline and seems like a very consistant and reliable producer. No defensively liability either and even brings some size at 6'2-195 (whether he uses it is another story).

Adrian Aucoin, is IMO, a #3/#4. Not the perfect first pairing defenseman people tend to label him. He's a full year older and thus one year closer at potentially leaving due to free agency. Satan makes 1.5 million more, but IMO, that's a good indication of the difference between eachothers value. A legit, proven first line winger is worth more then a very solid 2nd pairing defenseman.

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05-27-2004, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
What Wang's said is that throwing more money into the budget isn't the way to build a contender,then he pointed out his friend Dolan's payroll/lack of success.

You're not taking into account the expected cap,Yashin's undeserved $2m raise and the minimum qualifying offers that the young players like DiPietro,Weinhandl,Asham,Papineau,Kvasha will automatically get.Yeah it's only 10% but it still adds to the payroll.
Right now, there is economic uncertainty, but I think you are making a huge assumption about a cap, Crew. (As many are.)

That said, the comments you attribute to Wang about budget are undeniable, and his actions to date back up his words, unfortunately.

Question: If, in some bizarro world, NYI were to have a solid season and the look of a bonafide contender, do you think Wanger would spring for legitimate late season addition$ to improve the team?

Reason I ask is that if he is deadset against increasing payroll under any circumstances, this team has ZERO chance of ever competing. People cite Calgary, etc. as small budget teams that are having success, but those teams have had the guts to make shrewd late-season deals to improve their roster, even if it means adding some salary (e.g., Simon, Nieminen, Nilson).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano = Dud
Satan > Aucoin.
You make a fair case here, but the debate of who is a better player, an all-star dman in his prime or a sharpshooting all-star winger in his prime, lacks merit, IMO. For when one simply compares Player A vs. Player B, head-to-head, it totally ignores many of the very reasons why NHL trades are made. Namely: $$$ and team needs! Trades aren't made in a vacuum, based solely on talent. All too often, that is how they are evaluated on this board.

Nothing personal, just my opinion.


Last edited by Trottier: 05-27-2004 at 02:19 PM.
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05-27-2004, 02:15 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Digable5
Your choice of Campbell and/or Boulton and you can make the pick late or even keep it all together if you take Boulton. I'm all for Satan for Aucoin, but I wouldn't move Tallinder out of the regular lineup. He's made a lot of progress in his own zone and still has untapped offensive ability. Here's my pairings:

1a. Zhitnik/Jillson- I like the idea of making these two workhorses play together and hope that Jeff develops like Kalinin did this year. And when Z got injured, Kalinin proved he can still play well when he wasn't at Zhitnik's side. That makes me feel more comfotable with breaking them up.

1b. Kalinin/Aucoin-These guys may even be 1a or I think they could look good with the first two in any combination. With the ice time Aucoin, Zhitnik and Jillson have proven they can handle, maybe we only need four or five defensemen dressed on any given night

2. McKee/Tallinder (Brown)- Adding Aucoin would make our defense a strength rather than a weakness as it was for most of last year. I don't want to sit Brown or Tallinder, but I think Ruff can hopefully create a good rotation to keep everyone fresh and healthy. McKeee and Brown brought a shut down combo we lost when Warrener was dealt and a toughness we usually lack. But I'm still very high on Tallinder and think there's some potential to be great that we haven't seen yet.
The problem I would have with leaving Brown out of the lineup is that the Sabres played much more bravely when both Peters and Brown were in the lineup. That's part of the rationale for keeping McKee too. McKee can't play RD to save his life, while Tallinder struggles as well. Both are out of position at RD. Brown is a RD.

If this deal was made, I would look to deal all the excess defensemen except for Fitzpatrick and Patrick.

If we want to keep Tallinder - and I can see the rationale of this from an asset management standpoint, we need to add toughness elsewhere.

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05-27-2004, 02:24 PM
  #24
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Satan for Aucoin!!

I would wet myself if this deal actually happened!

Then we would not have to resign Z, but I would still hope we do though.

Aucoin-Kalinin
Zhitnik-Jillson
Mckee-Brown/Tallinder/Fitzpatrick

Patrick will retire and get rid of Cambell.


What a D-core!!

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05-27-2004, 02:28 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Right now, there is economic uncertainty, but I think you are making a huge assumption about a cap, Crew. (As many are.)

That said, the comments you attribute to Wang about budget are undeniable, and his actions to date back up his words, unfortunately.

Question: If, in some bizarro world, NYI were to have a solid season and the look of a bonafide contender, do you think Wanger would spring for legitimate late season addition$ to improve the team?

Reason I ask is that if he is deadset against increasing payroll under any circumstances, this team has ZERO chance of ever competing. People cite Calgary, etc. as small budget teams that are having success, but those teams have had the guts to make shrewd late-season deals to improve their roster, even if it means adding some salary (e.g., Simon, Nieminen, Nilson).
Even if there is no cap,the isles who insisted on sticking to a tight budget last season,will still have a few million in automatic raises due.

Would Wang ok adding salary next yr if they're playing well ?

I agree that they aren't going to be able to go from competitive to serious cup contender, if Wang won't increase payroll.

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