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Will Marc Savard end up in Toronto or Ottawa?

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Old
07-23-2010, 01:26 PM
  #51
Oates2Neely
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
-Ryder could be traded.... sure.
-Chia can walk away from Wheeler's arbitration award, and lose a talented young winger while still having to get rid of Ryder. So that's not a good idea.
-Thomas is going nowhere. Nobody is paying Thomas $6m when they can pay Turco less than half.
-Ference was just signed and the B's need defenceman.
-Sturm has a full NMC, and with his injury doesn't even give them much savings.

Again, all of you guys are more obsessed with trolling Leafs fans than you are in making the best move for the Bs. With Boston's 1st, they could move up the Toronto first by a lot more than Savard could move it down, and that's something that can be done at teh end of the season when things are certain....nevermind the potential return from Toronto.

The reason to trade Savard isn't entirely cap motivated, it's because you're going to have too many centres adn not enough wingers, and potentially a locker room disaster if Savard plays poorly at all. This, combined with teh fact that they've gotta trade him next year anyways.



Like I've said, GMs make moves in the best interest of their team, not worried abotu controlling where another draft pick MIGHT end up.

Chiarelli could wait until next year, but now you're looking at a player with only 3 years left on his career, and if he doesn't recover from the concussion / return to the point-per-game form, has even less value. Meanwhile, you've gotta question as to whether or not the B's would even want Savard on the roster this year. Sure, he's their most proven C, but there's many cases where it would be better to have the 3 younger guys developing wihle stacking the wings and having a positive locker room environment.

Sturm's cap allocation will be needed for Seguin/Wheeler. Ryder has to go anyways.
Keep in mind the Toronto 1st could be the 1st overall

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07-23-2010, 01:26 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Keep in mind the Toronto 1st could be the 1st overall
Keep dreaming.

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07-23-2010, 01:28 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Despite what Toronto fans say, Gagne's return can show Burke that he cant expect much for Kaberle, whom just like Gagne is an aging veteran on an expiring contract, & needs to be moved in order to have cap room to add offense to pop-gun top-6 forward cast. Trade Kaberle for a Gagne type package, & you can add some offense. Keep Kaberle & your offense remains a huge question mark, & you can force Kadri & Bozak into roles they're not ready for, & cross your fingers it doesnt hurt their growth (ala Carey Price).

Hey how about a "soft trade", Mikko Lehtinen & Andy Bonardchuk for Kaberle?
That idea came from Bob Mackenzie, not Leaf fans.

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07-23-2010, 01:32 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Leafs are demoting Jeff Finger and have room to add a $4m player with little issue. If Kaberle goes (unlikely at this point), a player with greater than a $4.25m salary will be coming back, so think cap-dump in reverse. Toronto can't expect much for Kaberle without taking big salary back, which is why they're not looking to make that kind of trade.
THIS is the madness of the Toronto fans! According to TOR fans Boston "needs" to trade Savard for scraps because we need cap room. Toronto can just "demote Finger" & poof have the cap room. So why do you assume Boston can't do the same with Ryder?

Toronto fans are so eager to get Savard its obvious, yet you claim "only in a soft deal"!! You know you want him, even if it were for Kaberle & Caputi 95% of you would be ok w/ that.

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07-23-2010, 01:38 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
THIS is the madness of the Toronto fans! According to TOR fans Boston "needs" to trade Savard for scraps because we need cap room. Toronto can just "demote Finger" & poof have the cap room. So why do you assume Boston can't do the same with Ryder?

Toronto fans are so eager to get Savard its obvious, yet you claim "only in a soft deal"!! You know you want him, even if it were for Kaberle & Caputi 95% of you would be ok w/ that.
They can....there's one big difference though.... the Leafs have 7 defenceman better than Finger and a team only needs 7 defenceman.

The Bruins only have 3 (if you include Wheeler) wingers better than Ryder, and a team needs 9.

It's simply problably not in their best interest to dump Ryder and keep Savard.

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07-23-2010, 01:41 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
THIS is the madness of the Toronto fans! According to TOR fans Boston "needs" to trade Savard for scraps because we need cap room. Toronto can just "demote Finger" & poof have the cap room. So why do you assume Boston can't do the same with Ryder?

Toronto fans are so eager to get Savard its obvious, yet you claim "only in a soft deal"!! You know you want him, even if it were for Kaberle & Caputi 95% of you would be ok w/ that.
Jeremy Jacobs will not pay Ryder's salary to sit in the minors. MLSE will do that for Finger if needed.

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07-23-2010, 01:42 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
They can....there's one big difference though.... the Leafs have 7 defenceman better than Finger and a team only needs 7 defenceman.

The Bruins only have 3 (if you include Wheeler) wingers better than Ryder, and a team needs 9.

It's simply problably not in their best interest to dump Ryder and keep Savard.
says the Toronto fan. Are you kidding me!! Demoting Ryder would be much better than moving Savard! & as far as wingers better than Ryder?

Horton
Lucic
Wheeler
Sturm
Recchi
Seguin* (not to jinx the kid but I place him above Ryder on deth chart)

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07-23-2010, 01:43 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Jeremy Jacobs will not pay Ryder's salary to sit in the minors. MLSE will do that for Finger if needed.
Roeper: at least your comrades put some thought into their posts.. C'mon man, represent will ya..

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07-23-2010, 01:44 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Roeper: at least your comrades put some thought into their posts.. C'mon man, represent will ya..
I have decades of Jacobs cheapness to base it on. He will not pay 4 million to have a guy sit in the minors.

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07-23-2010, 01:45 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
I have decades of Jacobs cheapness to base it on. He will not pay 4 million to have a guy sit in the minors.
See Peter Schaefer

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07-23-2010, 01:47 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Despite what Toronto fans say, Gagne's return can show Burke that he cant expect much for Kaberle, whom just like Gagne is an aging veteran on an expiring contract, & needs to be moved in order to have cap room to add offense to pop-gun top-6 forward cast. Trade Kaberle for a Gagne type package, & you can add some offense. Keep Kaberle & your offense remains a huge question mark, & you can force Kadri & Bozak into roles they're not ready for, & cross your fingers it doesnt hurt their growth (ala Carey Price).

Hey how about a "soft trade", Mikko Lehtinen & Andy Bonardchuk for Kaberle?
Good one. Gagne's contract and skill level are closer to Kaberle's than they are to Savard's. Look's like they're both staying put because, unlike Philly, Toronto and Boston have options.

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07-23-2010, 01:47 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Keep in mind the Toronto 1st could be the 1st overall
So could Boston's

Hopefully Nathan Horton can prop up statistically the worst offence in the league

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07-23-2010, 01:48 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainman2408 View Post
I'm not convinced that a Kaberle/Savard deal would make sense. Since it's Boston's main objective to shed salary they would actually be taking 300k more of a hit. If it is a "hockey deal" Then Ryder will most certainly need to be involved and not many teams includeing Toronto can't take on that much salary. Soft deal doesn't necessarily mean Caputi and a fourth. Simply means not taking back much salary and very possibly a pick with more value then a 4th.
The goal isn't really to shed salary, it's to shed salary, and bodies, at the center position. A Kaberle for Savard deal does that and also helps the bruins out at a position they are much weaker in.

"Soft" was always said in the realm of a deal where the return didn't equal Savard in value. Good roster players ("core" players) or top prospects/picks wouldn't be involved. Obviously Caputi and a 4th would be a massive steal for Toronto, I didn't mean that as a suggestion, just as a concept.

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07-23-2010, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Running Riot View Post
Do you have a link for that?

I figured the whole reason for the "soft deal" speculation was because Chiarelli wants Savard (and his salary) out and he's only willing to leave for those two teams.

At this point, I cannot see Savard returning to the Bruins, but as long as he's not willing to waive for any other teams, Ottawa and Toronto hold all the cards (unless the Bruins waive him).
I forget the link I saw it in and frankly I'm too lazy to dig it out but I do remember something being said or attributed to Chiarelli about Kaberle in return for Savard

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07-23-2010, 01:49 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
See Peter Schaefer
He wasn't making 4 million.

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07-23-2010, 01:50 PM
  #66
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There needs to be a 3rd team if a deal was involved with Ottawa.

A 3rd team that needs a 3rd line center and a top 4 dman and that has cap space to take them in.

Trade bait is Kelly and Kuba to a 3rd team for pieces, picks or prospects going to Boston without much salary coming back to them and them sending Savard to Ottawa.

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07-23-2010, 01:51 PM
  #67
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Does Boston want to trade to a division rival... ?
Yeah, they are going to avoid Toronto like the plague after how the past 3 deals with the Leafs have worked out...

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07-23-2010, 01:51 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
says the Toronto fan. Are you kidding me!! Demoting Ryder would be much better than moving Savard! & as far as wingers better than Ryder?

Horton
Lucic
Wheeler
Sturm
Recchi
Seguin* (not to jinx the kid but I place him above Ryder on deth chart)
Ryder > Sturm, Recchi, Seguin right now. He just had a bad year.

Trading Savard and keeping Ryder would be better than demoting Ryder.

- You save $7m in pure cash.
- You don't have a player who is unhappy and a potential ticking time bomb in the locker room.
- You get to develop Seguin at his strongest position.
- You give Krejci the opportunity to play a big role and develop into an even better centre.
- You surround your 3 young centres by 6 pretty decent wingers.

As for Jacobs' cheapness in reference to Schaeffer....this is a player who was bought out for a cap penalty for 2 years instead of buried in the minors. Obviously the Leafs did the same thign with Tucker (NMC couldn't bury) and Raycroft (flat out mistake). Combine that with the fact that Burke came out and said he has absolutely no problem burying players in the minors if they're not playing well. Jeff Finger was a healthy scratch for most of the 2nd half of the season (first because we were trying to showcase Exelby for trade) and then, when it didn't matter, and we should've been showcasing Finger, Exelby still played.

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07-23-2010, 01:51 PM
  #69
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I hope the Leafs keep Kabs. Phaneuf/Kaberle/Schenn/Beauchemin/Komisarek/Gunnarrsson/Aulie is a fantastic defense.

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07-23-2010, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Despite what Toronto fans say, Gagne's return can show Burke that he cant expect much for Kaberle, whom just like Gagne is an aging veteran on an expiring contract, & needs to be moved in order to have cap room to add offense to pop-gun top-6 forward cast. Trade Kaberle for a Gagne type package, & you can add some offense. Keep Kaberle & your offense remains a huge question mark, & you can force Kadri & Bozak into roles they're not ready for, & cross your fingers it doesnt hurt their growth (ala Carey Price).

Hey how about a "soft trade", Mikko Lehtinen & Andy Bonardchuk for Kaberle?
Gagne has a NTC, Kaberle doesn't.

The Leafs have at least 6 offers on the table, the Flyers had one.

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07-23-2010, 01:53 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Coach Craig View Post
Yeah, they are going to avoid Toronto like the plague after how the past 3 deals with the Leafs have worked out...
3?

I must be forgetting one of the deals

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07-23-2010, 01:59 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Ryder > Sturm, Recchi, Seguin right now. He just had a bad year.

Trading Savard and keeping Ryder would be better than demoting Ryder.

- You save $7m in pure cash.
- You don't have a player who is unhappy and a potential ticking time bomb in the locker room.
- You get to develop Seguin at his strongest position.
- You give Krejci the opportunity to play a big role and develop into an even better centre.
- You surround your 3 young centres by 6 pretty decent wingers.

As for Jacobs' cheapness in reference to Schaeffer....this is a player who was bought out for a cap penalty for 2 years instead of buried in the minors. Obviously the Leafs did the same thign with Tucker (NMC couldn't bury) and Raycroft (flat out mistake). Combine that with the fact that Burke came out and said he has absolutely no problem burying players in the minors if they're not playing well. Jeff Finger was a healthy scratch for most of the 2nd half of the season (first because we were trying to showcase Exelby for trade) and then, when it didn't matter, and we should've been showcasing Finger, Exelby still played.
Spinning Schaeffer into a negative for Jacobs is wrong. They paid him for an entire year to play in the minors and they bought him out because they didn't want his horrible attitude (and or problems) affecting the guys in Providence.

Your post is pure delusion. In no way does it make more sense to lose Savard and keep Ryder. You're just dreaming of getting Savard for cheap.

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07-23-2010, 02:00 PM
  #73
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So could Boston's

Hopefully Nathan Horton can prop up statistically the worst offence in the league
Offence and defence are played by 5 guys as a unit, and neither matters exclusively. All that matters in the end is team +/-.

Boston did fine. Toronto did them a favour.

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07-23-2010, 02:05 PM
  #74
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So could Boston's

Hopefully Nathan Horton can prop up statistically the worst offence in the league
wait are, are you ****ing serious???????

your going to make fun of the Bruins after your team finished second last and gave us the second overall pick. meanwhile we made the playoffs......................

some leafs fans are beyond ****ed in the head, its so sad.

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07-23-2010, 02:06 PM
  #75
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First of all, comparing the Simon Gagne and Tomas Kaberle situations is ridiculous. I love Simon Gagne, and was really hoping we'd find a way to get him, but he's hurt all the time, makes more money, and has a No Trade Clause.

It seems there are a million things, like signability, years left on the deal, his willingness to play there, age (at only 32), that people want to bring up involving a Kaberle deal that they don't in regards to any other player, and it's entirely because he's a guy the Leafs want to move. It's getting old.

As for Marc Savard, I sort of figure that if Boston was going to move him, they would have already. Also, as a Leafs fan, I don't want him. In fact, I think if Kaberle was switched to center, the only difference between the two players would be that Kaberle's bigger. They're both soft, neither shoots particularly well, both make their living off of skating and passing.

I sort of figure if Kaberle is moved, it will be like what Howard Berger says. Part of a bigger package. Maybe Tomas Kaberle, Nikolai Kulemin, and a few prospects to land Alexander Semin, who I've heard a few times over the summer Washington wants rid of.

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