HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

Will Marc Savard end up in Toronto or Ottawa?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-23-2010, 02:09 PM
  #76
BruinsBtn
Registered User
 
BruinsBtn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,704
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Gagne has a NTC, Kaberle doesn't.

The Leafs have at least 6 offers on the table, the Flyers had one.
For 3 years Leaf fans have been spouting ridiculous Kaberle trade proposals despite his NTC, where were you then? And will you be saying the same thing on Aug. 15 when he is still a Leaf?

BruinsBtn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 02:13 PM
  #77
Valley Boys
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 219
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Gagne has a NTC, Kaberle doesn't.

The Leafs have at least 6 offers on the table, the Flyers had one.
Do you have a source for this? Or are you basing it on the one 'offer' that materialized?

Valley Boys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 02:16 PM
  #78
seanlinden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,483
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruinsButton View Post
Spinning Schaeffer into a negative for Jacobs is wrong. They paid him for an entire year to play in the minors and they bought him out because they didn't want his horrible attitude (and or problems) affecting the guys in Providence.

Your post is pure delusion. In no way does it make more sense to lose Savard and keep Ryder. You're just dreaming of getting Savard for cheap.
-So saving $7m in cash isn't a good thing?

-So having a player who you know will be unhappy and a media disaster waiting to happen isn't a good thing? There were grumblings of locker-room issues before the B's drafted Seguin.... that's unlikely to improve as now he's got 3 young centres breathing down his neck, all 3 of whihc the B's fanbase and media would much rather see playing. Is it a guarantee to become a problem? not at all. Seguin could play well on the wing and Savard could have a bounceback year. The issue is that if that doesn't happen, things can turn ugly a lot quicker than if they didn't have Savard. Puts Chiarelli at more risk to be questioned than the players, but that's part of a GMs job. Better for him to take media heat than the players/coach.

-So developing Seguin at centre isn't a good thing?
-So giving Krejci a bigger role isn't a good thing?
-So having 6 decent wingers isn't a good thing?

Obviously there are benefits to having Savard (notably that he is the most proven centre right now), I just don't believe they outweigh the benefits of not having him.

seanlinden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 02:20 PM
  #79
BruinsBtn
Registered User
 
BruinsBtn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,704
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
-So saving $7m in cash isn't a good thing?
-So having a player who you know will be unhappy and a media disaster waiting to happen isn't a good thing?
-So developing Seguin at centre isn't a good thing?
-So giving Krejci a bigger role isn't a good thing?
-So having 6 decent wingers isn't a good thing?

Obviously there are benefits to having Savard (notably that he is the most proven centre right now), I just don't believe they outweigh the benefits of not having him.
Link? There is no evidence whatsoever that Savard or anyone else is unhappy.

Bergeron developend into a top two-way centre by starting his career on the wing. You don't trade your best offensive player a give up a chance at the Cup because it 'might' be better to have Seguin play centre ice.

BruinsBtn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 02:20 PM
  #80
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruinsButton View Post
For 3 years Leaf fans have been spouting ridiculous Kaberle trade proposals despite his NTC, where were you then? And will you be saying the same thing on Aug. 15 when he is still a Leaf?
Feel free to search the Leafs group and you will see me frequently reminding people who make trade proposals about who has a NTC. As a rule I hate trade proposals.

mooseOAK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 02:23 PM
  #81
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Boys View Post
Do you have a source for this? Or are you basing it on the one 'offer' that materialized?
I'm basing it on a quote I saw from Gagne that he only waived his NTC for one team, Tampa.

mooseOAK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 02:25 PM
  #82
Turk
Registered User
 
Turk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Ryder > Sturm, Recchi, Seguin right now. He just had a bad year.

Trading Savard and keeping Ryder would be better than demoting Ryder.

- You save $7m in pure cash.
- You don't have a player who is unhappy and a potential ticking time bomb in the locker room.
- You get to develop Seguin at his strongest position.
- You give Krejci the opportunity to play a big role and develop into an even better centre.
- You surround your 3 young centres by 6 pretty decent wingers.

As for Jacobs' cheapness in reference to Schaeffer....this is a player who was bought out for a cap penalty for 2 years instead of buried in the minors. Obviously the Leafs did the same thign with Tucker (NMC couldn't bury) and Raycroft (flat out mistake). Combine that with the fact that Burke came out and said he has absolutely no problem burying players in the minors if they're not playing well. Jeff Finger was a healthy scratch for most of the 2nd half of the season (first because we were trying to showcase Exelby for trade) and then, when it didn't matter, and we should've been showcasing Finger, Exelby still played.

Aren't you the guy that said they'd have to throw in Marchand to get rid of Ryder? And haven't I seen you trade Finger for value?


'Trading Savard and keeping Ryder would be better than demoting Ryder'..........for the Toronto Maple Leafs. And let me guess where Savard would be going...... to the Toronto Maple Leafs?

At least you're consistent, and I love the way you worked Seguin in there too.

Turk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 02:27 PM
  #83
Valley Boys
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 219
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
I'm basing it on a quote I saw from Gagne that he only waived his NTC for one team, Tampa.
In all fairness, we only heard about him waiving his NTC after the deal was consummated. Meaning Philly could have had multiple offers, chosen one, then taken it to Gagner. Nothing in there implies that one happened before the other.

Valley Boys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 02:30 PM
  #84
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Boys View Post
In all fairness, we only heard about him waiving his NTC after the deal was consummated. Meaning Philly could have had multiple offers, chosen one, then taken it to Gagner. Nothing in there implies that one happened before the other.
If I was another GM I wouldn't let Holmgren know what I was willing to offer until I knew whether or not my team was one that Gagne would agree to go to.

mooseOAK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 02:32 PM
  #85
BruinsBtn
Registered User
 
BruinsBtn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,704
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
-So saving $7m in cash isn't a good thing?

-So having a player who you know will be unhappy and a media disaster waiting to happen isn't a good thing? There were grumblings of locker-room issues before the B's drafted Seguin.... that's unlikely to improve as now he's got 3 young centres breathing down his neck, all 3 of whihc the B's fanbase and media would much rather see playing. Is it a guarantee to become a problem? not at all. Seguin could play well on the wing and Savard could have a bounceback year. The issue is that if that doesn't happen, things can turn ugly a lot quicker than if they didn't have Savard. Puts Chiarelli at more risk to be questioned than the players, but that's part of a GMs job. Better for him to take media heat than the players/coach.

-So developing Seguin at centre isn't a good thing?
-So giving Krejci a bigger role isn't a good thing?
-So having 6 decent wingers isn't a good thing?

Obviously there are benefits to having Savard (notably that he is the most proven centre right now), I just don't believe they outweigh the benefits of not having him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAOxY_nHdew


BruinsBtn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 02:33 PM
  #86
grabo84
Registered User
 
grabo84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Atlantic Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,649
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
If I was another GM I wouldn't let Holmgren know what I was willing to offer until I knew whether or not my team was one that Gagne would agree to go to.
Yup. It's a virtual guarantee that nobody entered negotiations without knowing that Gagne would waive. That's just common sense, and the reporting seemed to copy that.

grabo84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 02:34 PM
  #87
Valley Boys
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 219
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
If I was another GM I wouldn't let Holmgren know what I was willing to offer until I knew whether or not my team was one that Gagne would agree to go to.
Unless they were all low-ball offers....

(but I see what you're getting at)

Valley Boys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 02:35 PM
  #88
Valley Boys
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 219
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Yup. It's a virtual guarantee that nobody entered negotiations without knowing that Gagne would waive. That's just common sense, and the reporting seemed to copy that.
Then how did teams make offers for Kaberle before his NTC was suspended. And he was saying he didn't want to leave Toronto.

That's not consistent.

Valley Boys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 02:37 PM
  #89
Bejamin1*
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 492
vCash: 500
Savard has only waived for Toronto and Ottawa. Therefore discussing other destinations is pointless. These are the only two places he wants to go and it's to be nearer to his children. They signed him to a career deal in Boston and less than 6 months later they're shipping him out the door. I don't think Savard is going to be playing nice here.

So will it happen? Who knows. Lets examine the facts.

1. Horton has been acquired. This makes Wheeler expendable. He can be dealt for a pick to whoever will take him if need be.

2. Seguin might not play in the NHL this year. If he's not quite ready a year in the AHL playing the #1 Center role would be the best thing for his development.

3. Savard putting up 75-90 points centering Horton can't be the worst thing in the world. If the only way to get Seguin into the lineup this year is to kick Savard out of it how much do they really benefit unless Seguin puts up 90+ points in his rookie year?

Honestly if I'm Boston. I chuck Wheeler to the curb and stand pat with Savard. Let Seguin develop for a year in the AHL. Then after that year the Ryder contract is gone. Chara probably won't get 7.5M again and the Bruins have more space to work with. At the very least they'd have more options.

The only reason to give away Savard now is if he's super pissed off and really badly wants out. That's something none of us can know. Otherwise Chirelli would be smarter to just keep his asset and let some of his other contracts run out while he develops Seguin in the AHL this year. No big d?

Bejamin1* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 02:38 PM
  #90
Turk
Registered User
 
Turk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
They can....there's one big difference though.... the Leafs have 7 defenceman better than Finger and a team only needs 7 defenceman.

The Bruins only have 3 (if you include Wheeler) wingers better than Ryder, and a team needs 9.

It's simply problably not in their best interest to dump Ryder and keep Savard.


So he has trade value. Since he just had a bad season (you said it), that value will increase as Sturm's return approaches.

You're correct right up to the point where you make your self serving conclusion. No Savard for you, but thanks for pleading.

Turk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 02:40 PM
  #91
seanlinden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,483
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turk View Post
Aren't you the guy that said they'd have to throw in Marchand to get rid of Ryder? And haven't I seen you trade Finger for value?


'Trading Savard and keeping Ryder would be better than demoting Ryder'..........for the Toronto Maple Leafs. And let me guess where Savard would be going...... to the Toronto Maple Leafs?

At least you're consistent, and I love the way you worked Seguin in there too.
I said that might be close to what it costs....and no you haven't seen me trade Finger for value. Thats a contract that is going to the AHL.

Trading Savard and keeping Ryder coudl be better for the Boston Bruins, hence the reason to make a trade. If it wasn't, there'd be no reason to even consider trading him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BruinsButton View Post
Link? There is no evidence whatsoever that Savard or anyone else is unhappy.

Bergeron developend into a top two-way centre by starting his career on the wing. You don't trade your best offensive player a give up a chance at the Cup because it 'might' be better to have Seguin play centre ice.
What do you expect when you've got a veteran centre who has been a #1 his entire career....and now will have teh entire city calling for his head after 1 or 2 bad games? That everything wil lbe all fine and dandy? that only happens if the team plays perfectly. Look at Philly at the beginning of this year, they were calling for Mike Richards to be stripped of the captaincy.

You do it because it is problably better to play seguin at centre for his personal development alone, and because it definitely decreases your chances of a locker-room and chemistry blow-up if the team struggles at all; which is a very real scenario considering their lack of puck movement on the blueline.

seanlinden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 02:41 PM
  #92
seanlinden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,483
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turk View Post
So he has trade value. Since he just had a bad season (you said it), that value will increase as Sturm's return approaches.

You're correct right up to the point where you make your self serving conclusion. No Savard for you, but thanks for pleading.
Not quite....he's still not worth anywhere near $4m. If he was a guarantee to recover, then maybe around $4m....but when you factor in the potential of another bad year, he's worht in the mid-high 2s.

seanlinden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 02:44 PM
  #93
Coach Craig
Passion for coaching
 
Coach Craig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
3?

I must be forgetting one of the deals
I was thinking that the Khristich deal was the last one between the two prior to the Raycroft for Rask robbery. Wanvig/Hoglund Fax Gate I believe may have been in between.

Coach Craig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 02:45 PM
  #94
seanlinden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,483
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bejamin1 View Post
Savard has only waived for Toronto and Ottawa. Therefore discussing other destinations is pointless. These are the only two places he wants to go and it's to be nearer to his children. They signed him to a career deal in Boston and less than 6 months later they're shipping him out the door. I don't think Savard is going to be playing nice here.

So will it happen? Who knows. Lets examine the facts.

1. Horton has been acquired. This makes Wheeler expendable. He can be dealt for a pick to whoever will take him if need be.

2. Seguin might not play in the NHL this year. If he's not quite ready a year in the AHL playing the #1 Center role would be the best thing for his development.

3. Savard putting up 75-90 points centering Horton can't be the worst thing in the world. If the only way to get Seguin into the lineup this year is to kick Savard out of it how much do they really benefit unless Seguin puts up 90+ points in his rookie year?

Honestly if I'm Boston. I chuck Wheeler to the curb and stand pat with Savard. Let Seguin develop for a year in the AHL. Then after that year the Ryder contract is gone. Chara probably won't get 7.5M again and the Bruins have more space to work with. At the very least they'd have more options.

The only reason to give away Savard now is if he's super pissed off and really badly wants out. That's something none of us can know. Otherwise Chirelli would be smarter to just keep his asset and let some of his other contracts run out while he develops Seguin in the AHL this year. No big d?
1. Horton has been acquired to address the loss of Kessel. They still need Wheeler, he's a very good developing player for them with a ton of skills. Perfect fit for a 2nd line long term.

2. Seguin cannot play in the AHL under any circumstances (agreement between NHL and CHL). He either plays in the NHL or goes back to Plymouth, where it is certaintly questionable as to how much more he can learn.

3. Certainly a good option.... but, how many points will Krejci put up centreing Horton? 70-80 versus 60-70 on a 2nd line?

seanlinden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 02:51 PM
  #95
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Boys View Post
Then how did teams make offers for Kaberle before his NTC was suspended. And he was saying he didn't want to leave Toronto.

That's not consistent.
Because when Kaberle's NTC was not in effect was clearly defined in his contract. Nonis said that they received so many calls asking them about it that they sent a letter explaining the situation to every GM in the league.

mooseOAK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 02:53 PM
  #96
Volcanologist
Used Register
 
Volcanologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Cosmodrome
Country: Germany
Posts: 21,043
vCash: 500
It'll be to the Leafs, and boston fans will hate the deal.

Volcanologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 02:55 PM
  #97
BruinsBtn
Registered User
 
BruinsBtn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,704
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
I said that might be close to what it costs....and no you haven't seen me trade Finger for value. Thats a contract that is going to the AHL.

Trading Savard and keeping Ryder coudl be better for the Boston Bruins, hence the reason to make a trade. If it wasn't, there'd be no reason to even consider trading him.



What do you expect when you've got a veteran centre who has been a #1 his entire career....and now will have teh entire city calling for his head after 1 or 2 bad games? That everything wil lbe all fine and dandy? that only happens if the team plays perfectly. Look at Philly at the beginning of this year, they were calling for Mike Richards to be stripped of the captaincy.
You do it because it is problably better to play seguin at centre for his personal development alone, and because it definitely decreases your chances of a locker-room and chemistry blow-up if the team struggles at all; which is a very real scenario considering their lack of puck movement on the blueline.
Where do you get the idea that anyone is trying to run Savard out of town? The fans love Savard now as much as they ever have.

And this lockerroom stuff is nonesense, they already traded their biggest lockerroom problem to Toronto.

BruinsBtn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 02:57 PM
  #98
cyris
On a Soma Holiday
 
cyris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 3rd Planet From Sun.
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Perry Cox View Post
First of all, comparing the Simon Gagne and Tomas Kaberle situations is ridiculous. I love Simon Gagne, and was really hoping we'd find a way to get him, but he's hurt all the time, makes more money, and has a No Trade Clause.

It seems there are a million things, like signability, years left on the deal, his willingness to play there, age (at only 32), that people want to bring up involving a Kaberle deal that they don't in regards to any other player, and it's entirely because he's a guy the Leafs want to move. It's getting old.

As for Marc Savard, I sort of figure that if Boston was going to move him, they would have already. Also, as a Leafs fan, I don't want him. In fact, I think if Kaberle was switched to center, the only difference between the two players would be that Kaberle's bigger. They're both soft, neither shoots particularly well, both make their living off of skating and passing.

I sort of figure if Kaberle is moved, it will be like what Howard Berger says. Part of a bigger package. Maybe Tomas Kaberle, Nikolai Kulemin, and a few prospects to land Alexander Semin, who I've heard a few times over the summer Washington wants rid of.
Kaberle shoots very well. The only problem with his shot is that he doesn't use it.

cyris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 03:00 PM
  #99
Turk
Registered User
 
Turk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bejamin1 View Post
Savard has only waived for Toronto and Ottawa. Therefore discussing other destinations is pointless. These are the only two places he wants to go and it's to be nearer to his children. They signed him to a career deal in Boston and less than 6 months later they're shipping him out the door. I don't think Savard is going to be playing nice here.

So will it happen? Who knows. Lets examine the facts.

1. Horton has been acquired. This makes Wheeler expendable. He can be dealt for a pick to whoever will take him if need be.

2. Seguin might not play in the NHL this year. If he's not quite ready a year in the AHL playing the #1 Center role would be the best thing for his development.

3. Savard putting up 75-90 points centering Horton can't be the worst thing in the world. If the only way to get Seguin into the lineup this year is to kick Savard out of it how much do they really benefit unless Seguin puts up 90+ points in his rookie year?

Honestly if I'm Boston. I chuck Wheeler to the curb and stand pat with Savard. Let Seguin develop for a year in the AHL. Then after that year the Ryder contract is gone. Chara probably won't get 7.5M again and the Bruins have more space to work with. At the very least they'd have more options.

The only reason to give away Savard now is if he's super pissed off and really badly wants out. That's something none of us can know. Otherwise Chirelli would be smarter to just keep his asset and let some of his other contracts run out while he develops Seguin in the AHL this year. No big d?

Then he goes back to OHL. Not an option.

You would ditch Wheeler to keep Ryder?

They got Horton because they were short on wingers. Explain how Short + One = Too many?

If you want Savard - say so and stop digging the hole.

Turk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2010, 03:00 PM
  #100
reever29
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 76
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubey View Post
In Toronto for John Mitchell
Interesting proposal, that gives Boston a depth Centreman back?! Makes a little sense, only question, does Burke actually want Savard? That is the real question. I would give up Mitchell and a fringe prospect for Savard. NO RYDER!!

reever29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:22 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.