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Jim Johnson & Cap Raeder Fired

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07-23-2010, 10:33 AM
  #1
Adsprincess
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Jim Johnson & Cap Raeder Fired

Didnt see this posted yet:

http://lightning.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=534864

This a total bummer to us in Norfolk. JJ went 15-5-1-1 before being banished to the video closet in TB. JJ took a team that was in last place and in 2-3 weeks after being named head coach, gave us a chance for the playoffs. Then he was pulled up to TB as we all know in a politcal move by Lawton. Then once he was rightfully returned to us it was too late we had missed our chances of the playoffs. But when JJ was returned to us, the first home game, he basically got a roar of response of happiness to see him back.

I don't know how much firing Cap Raeder will affect the orginazation, but firing JJ will affect us down in Norfolk alot

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07-23-2010, 10:37 AM
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Rschmitz
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As soon as BriseBois said that they wanted familiarity and continuity between the AHL and the NHL, red flags came up for me, despite them earlier hinting towards keeping JJ. They want a coach who can teach the 1-3-1 system, JJ was an awfully big sacrifice to accomplish that goal, sad to see him be a casualty of circumstance

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07-23-2010, 10:42 AM
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Don't like the timing of it, and I really wanted to keep Cap.

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07-23-2010, 10:52 AM
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I don't see any better candidates for an AHL coach out there...

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07-23-2010, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by CSampson View Post
I don't see any better candidates for an AHL coach out there...
This is whats got me worried. All the good ones have been taken already. Can't poach anything else from Hamilton, they already got everyone up in TB. Hopefully these two coaches can find something with another organization as spots are becoming very limited now.

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07-23-2010, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Adsprincess View Post
This is whats got me worried. All the good ones have been taken already. Can't poach anything else from Hamilton, they already got everyone up in TB. Hopefully these two coaches can find something with another organization as spots are becoming very limited now.
You're most likely getting someone very green, who either worked with these guys at McGill or Hamilton for a little bit. I'd guess there is a McGill connection somewhere...

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07-23-2010, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by TB_FANATIC View Post
As soon as BriseBois said that they wanted familiarity and continuity between the AHL and the NHL, red flags came up for me, despite them earlier hinting towards keeping JJ. They want a coach who can teach the 1-3-1 system, JJ was an awfully big sacrifice to accomplish that goal, sad to see him be a casualty of circumstance
I guess they did not speak French well enough!

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07-23-2010, 11:13 AM
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I understand wanting your own guys, and I get that so far all the moves that have been made are positive, but this one I don't understand at all. I don't see the need to fire either one of these guys, yet Wilson (as of right now) is still listed on the team site as a coach.

And I'm definitely not as up on the AHL guys and minors as the rest of you guys seem to be, but you aren't filling me with confidence about any possible choices. Norfolk doesn't need green, it needs head on straight and experienced.

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07-23-2010, 11:41 AM
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I agree with the timing being bad, but with Stevie Y's hiring and the need to "Find a new coach, prepare for the draft, resign guys, sign free agents, explore trades, ect.." I'm sure that filling out the AHL affiliate has been a little further down the totem pole... Plus he was doing all of that without BriseBois to transition this authority to Norfolk...

Let it play out...Yzerman we trust, right?

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07-23-2010, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TB_FANATIC View Post
As soon as BriseBois said that they wanted familiarity and continuity between the AHL and the NHL, red flags came up for me, despite them earlier hinting towards keeping JJ. They want a coach who can teach the 1-3-1 system, JJ was an awfully big sacrifice to accomplish that goal, sad to see him be a casualty of circumstance
I don't agree with that line of logic. There's little reason why Johnson couldn't coach 1-3-1. It's also quite contrary to what GMSY and especially Boucher has been saying about adapting to the players they actually have, and not forcing something on players who aren't compatible.

We've had one draft with 1-3-1 in mind, there's no way our AHL team next season will be that different in terms of player personnel.

The Admirals are BriesBois' team, and he doesn't want Jim Johnson for whatever reason.

There's no telling who they could have in mind. Although I doubt it's one of the Bulldogs old HC's. Seems odd to get a guy who used to have Boucher's job, before he had it. The only ex-Bulldog coach that seems reasonably available to me, is Doug Jarvis.

Jarvis was the Bulldogs HC from 03-05, where he was promoted to asst. coach with the Canadiens. That was the season when Claude Julien, another former Bulldog HC was fired, and replaced by the other Bobsled Gainey.

After that, he worked under Guy Carbonneau until he was fired in 2009. He apparently hasn't coached pro hockey since.

Jarvis was perhaps, not so coincidentally, the other asst. coach that lasted so long with Rick Wilson in Dallas. They'll figure out who the Stars secret to success was, or die trying.

Maybe I'm wasting my "whatever is the internet equivalent of breath" on this.

Rollie Melanson also seems to be available for goalie coach. 12 years of experience w/Montreal.

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07-23-2010, 11:49 AM
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WTF???? Why JJ? Stevie Y was really impressed with him during the prospect camp. He almost made the playoffs with a really horrible squad in Norfolk. He would have made it if not for Lawton's idiotic move. Dont understand this in the least.....he was a hell of a coach and really did wonders for the kids. Just ask Lundin, Tyrell, Fadden.....

lmao awesome birthday present for me. Birthday hits and one of my favorite people within the organization gets **** canned....AWESOME!!

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07-23-2010, 01:20 PM
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Rollie Melanson signed on with Vancouver

Look to Jon Elkin or Andy Moog to become next goalie coach. Smith and Ellis worked with Moog in Dallas and Elkin is Smith's personal goalie coach from Toronto Area. Both coaches are great guys. Moog offers a little more NHL experience than Elkin, but experience is not the biggest factor for SY as per the Boucher signing.

My guess is Moog though!

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07-23-2010, 02:15 PM
  #13
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EE tweeted a few hours ago that the 3rd asst. coach to join the Lightning's staff should be announced sometime today.

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07-23-2010, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
I don't agree with that line of logic. There's little reason why Johnson couldn't coach 1-3-1. It's also quite contrary to what GMSY and especially Boucher has been saying about adapting to the players they actually have, and not forcing something on players who aren't compatible.

We've had one draft with 1-3-1 in mind, there's no way our AHL team next season will be that different in terms of player personnel.

The Admirals are BriesBois' team, and he doesn't want Jim Johnson for whatever reason.
You don't agree with the logic that a coach who has never taught 1-3-1 would have less success than a coach who has? How can you expect the players to learn a system that the coach is learning himself? Also, there should be very little argument that AHL players transitioning to the NHL will have greater success if they are already familiar with the system, regardless of what Boucher says.

The reason Johnson was let go was because they are wanting to wipe the slate clean, and I would be shocked if that doesn't include bringing in a guy familiar 1-3-1.

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07-23-2010, 02:33 PM
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Exactly. I'm guessing it'll be someone new, too.

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07-23-2010, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TB_FANATIC View Post
You don't agree with the logic that a coach who has never taught 1-3-1 would have less success than a coach who has? How can you expect the players to learn a system that the coach is learning himself? Also, there should be very little argument that AHL players transitioning to the NHL will have greater success if they are already familiar with the system, regardless of what Boucher says.

The reason Johnson was let go was because they are wanting to wipe the slate clean, and I would be shocked if that doesn't include bringing in a guy familiar 1-3-1.
Well considering we just keep pissing off our minor league systems. Why not let them keep the coach that THEY want and has proved he can develop and win games down there.

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07-23-2010, 02:35 PM
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Well considering we just keep pissing off our minor league systems. Why not let them keep the coach that THEY want and has proved he can develop and win games down there.
Er, thats a terribly small sample size so I disagree. I liked what I saw from him, but less than 20 games doesn't prove he can develop and win down there.

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07-23-2010, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobsled Gainey View Post
Er, thats a terribly small sample size so I disagree. I liked what I saw from him, but less than 20 games doesn't prove he can develop and win down there.
Lundin. Case and point. JJ was in charge of the defense when Lundin was sent down. Lundin wasn't playing the type of hockey he was capable of playing, his confidence was shot and was still making mistakes. I believe it was something crazy like 15 games later under JJ and Lundin pretty much became the captain of there defense. Our prospects like Lashoff were coming out and saying the only reason why they were doing so good was because of Lundin. Yeah....

A kid that should of hit his ceiling as a bottom pairing defensemen became a legit number 2-3 because of JJ. So as far as developing I will respectfully disagree.

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07-23-2010, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Bolt32 View Post
Lundin. Case and point. JJ was in charge of the defense when Lundin was sent down. Lundin wasn't playing the type of hockey he was capable of playing, his confidence was shot and was still making mistakes. I believe it was something crazy like 15 games later under JJ and Lundin pretty much became the captain of there defense. Our prospects like Lashoff were coming out and saying the only reason why they were doing so good was because of Lundin. Yeah....

A kid that should of hit his ceiling as a bottom pairing defensemen became a legit number 2-3 because of JJ. So as far as developing I will respectfully disagree.
One player doesn't make a coach. We could argue that Tocchet is a great coach because of Stamkos, if we want to go that way.

Lundin played well, but was served better by eating 20+ a night in Norfolk, rather than being a 5-6 guy here and getting 14 minutes. He got copious amounts of powerplay time and was allowed to take more responsibility to cut into guys who werent capable of handling the workload (like Lashoff). I still argue that Lundins ability to play sound defensively allowed others (like Wishart and Lashoff) to actually blossom offensively, as those two had struggled up to that point doing it (Wishart played well defensively, forgot offense, then forgot defense, and played offense).

Listen, I like JJ. I like the way he teaches, addresses, leads, and coaches. He is well spoken and really understands how to work with people, rather than play the "well i'm the ****ing coach so listen" card. I wanted to see him get a shot in Norfolk, but he is far from "sold" as a coach at this point.

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07-23-2010, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobsled Gainey View Post
One player doesn't make a coach. We could argue that Tocchet is a great coach because of Stamkos, if we want to go that way.

Lundin played well, but was served better by eating 20+ a night in Norfolk, rather than being a 5-6 guy here and getting 14 minutes. He got copious amounts of powerplay time and was allowed to take more responsibility to cut into guys who werent capable of handling the workload (like Lashoff). I still argue that Lundins ability to play sound defensively allowed others (like Wishart and Lashoff) to actually blossom offensively, as those two had struggled up to that point doing it (Wishart played well defensively, forgot offense, then forgot defense, and played offense).

Listen, I like JJ. I like the way he teaches, addresses, leads, and coaches. He is well spoken and really understands how to work with people, rather than play the "well i'm the ****ing coach so listen" card. I wanted to see him get a shot in Norfolk, but he is far from "sold" as a coach at this point.
Eh, different Management, they want there own people in. Understand that. Doesn't mean I have to like the decision. I feel like were screwing the Ads with this move to be honest. Lets face it, we dont exactly have world burners in our minors atm. Least during there short stint with JJ they actually played as a team, regardless of how individually talented, or untalented they were. To me, that was something not to be taken lightly.

Wish JJ the best of luck where he goes, Cap too.... I hope the new coach makes the playoffs this season or we may be looking for a new affiliate.

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07-23-2010, 03:01 PM
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Eh, different Management, they want there own people in. Understand that. Doesn't mean I have to like the decision. I feel like were screwing the Ads with this move to be honest. Lets face it, we dont exactly have world burners in our minors atm. Least during there short stint with JJ they actually played as a team, regardless of how individually talented, or untalented they were. To me, that was something not to be taken lightly.

Wish JJ the best of luck where he goes, Cap too.... I hope the new coach makes the playoffs this season or we may be looking for a new affiliate.
Absolutely, I agree with all of that. They have to have a plan in place for Norfolk given the timing... you would think?

I mean, why the hell would you fire those two now, if you didn't have someone lined up? I should expect good things from Yzerman, he seems to have a plan, but i'm still a bit gun shy because of old ownership.

Wherever JJ lands, i'm sure hes going to do great. Sucks we can't retain him in some form or position.

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07-23-2010, 03:10 PM
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Definitely sucks to see him go, if you read about the impact he had on the players in Norfolk, given his success albeit short lived, how could his firing not irk you a bit? He certainly sold me. But its important to also see the big picture.

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07-23-2010, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by TB_FANATIC View Post
Definitely sucks to see him go, if you read about the impact he had on the players in Norfolk, given his success albeit short lived, how could his firing not irk you a bit? He certainly sold me. But its important to also see the big picture.
I'm too pissed to see the big picture at the moment. I'll get back to you in a few days.

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07-23-2010, 03:17 PM
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per EE

Quote:
Yeah, a little surprised figured he would stick, but maybe it was somewhat mutual, he only had one year left on deal
Personal anecdote, Yzerman could have asked him to teach 1-3-1 and Johnson may have said he would rather find another job that he is comfortable with rather than spend the final year of his contract struggling to learn a new system.

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07-23-2010, 03:30 PM
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Good point.

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