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07-23-2010, 03:37 PM
  #26
Felonious Python
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I like how 1-3-1 has reached mythic status.

Guy Boucher is somehow this visionary who single-handledly developed a genius system that will result in us never losing a game again.

And only he can hand pick the people who have the intellectual capacity to run it. It's a hockey system, not the Colonel's secret recipe.

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07-23-2010, 04:37 PM
  #27
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EE just tweeted that the Lightning have hired Wayne Fleming as their new(est) asst. coach.

In contrast to the last regime, this coaching staff has very little professional playing experience. With the notable exception of Daniel Lacroix.

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07-23-2010, 04:44 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
I like how 1-3-1 has reached mythic status.

Guy Boucher is somehow this visionary who single-handledly developed a genius system that will result in us never losing a game again.

And only he can hand pick the people who have the intellectual capacity to run it. It's a hockey system, not the Colonel's secret recipe.
I don't know where anybody said that. It wasn't implied. Its a system just like the trap is a system. But coaches have their own ideas of how a team should play, thinking that JJ prefers his team to play a certain style isn't an unreasonable guess. I'm also a little bit uncomfortable with how you are dismissing the value of a coach who has intimate knowledge and faith in a particular system.

If I'm not mistaken, you are saying that the system doesn't mean much. I see it as the exact opposite, I would argue that you want your AHL coach to have even more knowledge of the system than Boucher because they are probably going to be the first ones to interact with your prospects and do the vast majority of the actual teaching.

And for what its worth, Boucher will be the first coach in the NHL to use the 1-3-1 system routinely.

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07-23-2010, 04:47 PM
  #29
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Wayne Fleming was an assistant coach for the 1990-1991 Canadian National team. Also on that team? Jim Paek.

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07-23-2010, 04:53 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Patrick View Post
Wayne Fleming was an assistant coach for the 1990-1991 Canadian National team. Also on that team? Jim Paek.
Paek only played though, I doubt they let him make any decisions, which would most assuredly be the most absolute wrong ones.

Paek is actually a pretty good barometer. If you compare what he says to your potential candidate, and find that whatever your guy says is completely contrary to Paek's opinion, you've got a surefire winner on your hands. That's probably why he's in the Red Wings organization.

Fleming actually coached Rick Tocchet in 99-00 during their time in Phoenix. That's right, our new asst. coach, coached, our old head coach.

That's a step up, right there.

Fleming also should know Gagne pretty well from the three years they spent together in Philadelphia.

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07-23-2010, 04:54 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
Paek only played though, I doubt they let him make any decisions, which would assuredly be the absolute wrong ones.

Fleming actually coached Rick Tocchet in 99-00 during their time in Phoenix. That's right, our new asst. coach, coached, our old head coach.

That's a step up right there.

Fleming did actually coach Gagne for 3 years in Philadelphia.
He also coached former assistant Mike Sullivan so he's gone full circle kinda. I know very little about him but Edmonton fans seemed to like him and were surprised when he wasn't named an assistant on Renney's staff.

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07-23-2010, 06:14 PM
  #32
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Wayne Fleming is a nice addition to an otherwise inexperienced Tampa coaching staff. Stevie Y continues to make all the right moves.
http://twitter.com/eduhatschek

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Old
07-24-2010, 11:40 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
I like how 1-3-1 has reached mythic status.

Guy Boucher is somehow this visionary who single-handledly developed a genius system that will result in us never losing a game again.

And only he can hand pick the people who have the intellectual capacity to run it. It's a hockey system, not the Colonel's secret recipe.
Do you agree there is a difference in just about everyones methods to run something, from a McDonalds to a hockey team? Thats all.

Everyone likes it done one way, the way they want, not teaching someone elses system, etc.

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07-24-2010, 11:42 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Patrick View Post
Wayne Fleming was an assistant coach for the 1990-1991 Canadian National team. Also on that team? Jim Paek.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
Paek only played though, I doubt they let him make any decisions, which would most assuredly be the most absolute wrong ones.

Paek is actually a pretty good barometer. If you compare what he says to your potential candidate, and find that whatever your guy says is completely contrary to Paek's opinion, you've got a surefire winner on your hands. That's probably why he's in the Red Wings organization.

Fleming actually coached Rick Tocchet in 99-00 during their time in Phoenix. That's right, our new asst. coach, coached, our old head coach.

That's a step up, right there.

Fleming also should know Gagne pretty well from the three years they spent together in Philadelphia.

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Old
07-24-2010, 12:11 PM
  #35
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Okay, who then takes over as goalie coach? Or do they think they can do it on their own?

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07-24-2010, 12:36 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TB_FANATIC View Post
I don't know where anybody said that. It wasn't implied. Its a system just like the trap is a system. But coaches have their own ideas of how a team should play, thinking that JJ prefers his team to play a certain style isn't an unreasonable guess. I'm also a little bit uncomfortable with how you are dismissing the value of a coach who has intimate knowledge and faith in a particular system.

If I'm not mistaken, you are saying that the system doesn't mean much. I see it as the exact opposite, I would argue that you want your AHL coach to have even more knowledge of the system than Boucher because they are probably going to be the first ones to interact with your prospects and do the vast majority of the actual teaching.

And for what its worth, Boucher will be the first coach in the NHL to use the 1-3-1 system routinely.
I didn't direct that comment towards any particular people. It does seem to have become a common theme since he was offered the coaching job by the Blue Jackets.

It's not the only way to win, and it's not a foolproof plan. Boucher will try it, and it may or may not work. If it doesn't, he's seemed to indicate that he'll do what's needed in order to win.

Something that I do believe is that superior coaching can facilitate a less skilled group to consistently win over more talented competition. The system being used is only a piece of that.

It's foolish for a coach to have "faith" in a system. Especially an unproven one at the NHL level. Faith is a major contributor to what leads people to do stupid things. (semantics ftw)

What I expect, and assume out of a professional, is the ability to adapt. Based on Johnson's track record, I'd figure he'd have to be one of the most willing to do so. He's succeeded in every situation, and every system, he's been given. 1-3-1 is not something I think would break him.

You do have a valid point that 1-3-1 may, or may not, be Johnson's cup of tea. But I associate high adaptability with open mindedness, and being a quick learner. That's where I'm not making the mental leap. Maybe I've vastly misjudged JJ's personality and skill set, but that wouldn't line up with what's been said about him.

Something that I am doing, and I'll admit this, is valuing having a winning AHL affiliate, to a degree equal to or greater than, valuing them primarily as being Tampa's development bucket.


Last edited by Felonious Python: 07-24-2010 at 12:49 PM.
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Old
07-25-2010, 05:10 AM
  #37
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Fleming is a good hire, he is experienced but yet he is open to new ideas. While older he is not stuck with a certain way to play, which might be a reason why they did pick him.

He also has good knowledge of european hockey, so his skills and knowledge should complement the coaching staff very well.

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Old
07-25-2010, 06:43 AM
  #38
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Q&A with Fleming: http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hocke...istant/1110995

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