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Old
07-28-2010, 03:41 PM
  #101
DUHockey9
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Originally Posted by Jumping View Post
He did it in the Olympics and that ended up pretty well.
They also had Toews, who is at least Richards equal defensively, playing center.

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07-28-2010, 03:56 PM
  #102
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He did it in the Olympics and that ended up pretty well.
Yeah, because Crosby, Thornton, Toews, and Getzlaf were ahead of him.

There's a long list of reasons why this would be a ****ing terrible idea and only one reason why it's a good idea...and it's a pretty flimsy reason at that: "because it worked in the Olympics".

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07-28-2010, 04:15 PM
  #103
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Carcillo-Carter-Giroux
Hartnell-Breire-Leino
JVR-Richards-Zherdev
Shelley-Betts-Laperriere
*Powe

Pronger-Carle
Timonen-Coburn
Meszaros-O'Donnell
*Walker

Leighton
Boucher

I can definitely live with that

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07-28-2010, 04:21 PM
  #104
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Well, not every team is blessed enough to have multiple two way centers like we do. I understand Briere and Giroux are less than fantastic in the D zone, but is it not worth a shot to at least try it?

Richards-Briere-Leino
JVR-Carter-Hartnell
Zherdev-Giroux-Carcillo


It wouldnt be my first choice for lines, but if everyone clicked, it could work out well.

But I have to say, if we are putting Richards at wing, that means he will be centered by one of Carter, Briere or Giroux. If it's Carter, then that is a waste of Richards. If it's Briere or Giroux, then why not have Richards center the line? Doesnt make sense unless we are going for something totally out there.

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07-28-2010, 04:25 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Because Briere could be a -50 even in a 90 pt season with his defensive 'skills' at center.
Gotta love the sheep sometimes.

Briere's +- totals

09/10 -2
08/09 -1 (injured all season, played injured for his 25 games)
07/08 -22 ( joke of a season, played with 13 different line mates, in his first season with the flyers.

06/07 +17 ( Best season to date, both in points, +-
05/06 +3 (limited to only 48 games again due to injury)

Briere is not the best defensive centre in the league, but his defensive lapses are so overrated it's unbelievable. Yes he had one horrific season, but he also had one pretty damn fine season too.

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07-28-2010, 04:27 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by ArmchairGM View Post
Carcillo-Carter-Giroux
Hartnell-Breire-Leino
JVR-Richards-Zherdev
Shelley-Betts-Laperriere
*Powe

Pronger-Carle
Timonen-Coburn
Meszaros-O'Donnell
*Walker

Leighton
Boucher

I can definitely live with that
That line handicaps Richards in a major way. Also, it is not good defensively. I'd even go for putting JvR with Giroux and Carter, Carcillo on that third line, and Powe over Shelley on the fourth.

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07-28-2010, 04:37 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by mypunkrock View Post
That line handicaps Richards in a major way. Also, it is not good defensively. I'd even go for putting JvR with Giroux and Carter, Carcillo on that third line, and Powe over Shelley on the fourth.
The Richards line would not be very good defensively, but that doesn't mean the lines couldn't be situationally changed. Carter-Richards-Laperriere could work defensively.

Putting JVR with Carter and Giroux is really enticing, but I think its better to have JVR with Richards then Carcillo. JVR is much better offensively, and should at least be on par with Carcillo defensively this season.

I would like a JVR-Carter-Giroux line, but it depends on how much of a role you think Carcillo can have, and whether you think Carcillo or JVR is better defensively.

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07-28-2010, 05:21 PM
  #108
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I don't think Richards will move to the wing and I don't want him to. BUT, I also remember being very upset when Gagne was moved to the wing and I thought that would be a disaster and I also remember hating the Giroux at center project at one time. Add to that list LeClair. I was quite P.Oed when he was moved to the wing. Especially after liking him so much at center when he won the cup.

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07-28-2010, 05:28 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by ArmchairGM View Post
The Richards line would not be very good defensively, but that doesn't mean the lines couldn't be situationally changed. Carter-Richards-Laperriere could work defensively.

Putting JVR with Carter and Giroux is really enticing, but I think its better to have JVR with Richards then Carcillo. JVR is much better offensively, and should at least be on par with Carcillo defensively this season.

I would like a JVR-Carter-Giroux line, but it depends on how much of a role you think Carcillo can have, and whether you think Carcillo or JVR is better defensively.
I just dont think Giroux with Carter is an effective use of Giroux. Carter doesnt need him to score goals.

Giroux with Zherdev may be more dynamic, and playing Hartnell with Carter and JVR would still allow Carter to score goals.

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07-28-2010, 09:37 PM
  #110
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Tweaked mine again:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Ville Leino ($0.800m)
Jeff Carter ($5.000m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Daniel Carcillo ($1.075m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($0.821m) / Nikolai Zherdev ($2.000m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Ian Laperriere ($1.166m)
Darroll Powe ($0.725m)

DEFENSEMEN
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
Matt Walker ($1.700m) / Sean O'Donnell ($1.300m)

GOALTENDERS
Michael Leighton ($1.550m) /Brian Boucher ($0.925m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,459,763; BONUSES: $937,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $877,737

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Old
07-29-2010, 12:17 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrieresSalary View Post
Tweaked mine again:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Ville Leino ($0.800m)
Jeff Carter ($5.000m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Daniel Carcillo ($1.075m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($0.821m) / Nikolai Zherdev ($2.000m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Ian Laperriere ($1.166m)
Darroll Powe ($0.725m)

DEFENSEMEN
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
Matt Walker ($1.700m) / Sean O'Donnell ($1.300m)

GOALTENDERS
Michael Leighton ($1.550m) /Brian Boucher ($0.925m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,459,763; BONUSES: $937,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $877,737
I like them, but the JVR-Giroux-Zherdev line would be pretty bad defensively unless JVR steps his defensive game up a lot (not saying he's bad, but no where near enough to cover for Zherdev).

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Old
07-29-2010, 12:31 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Yeah, because Crosby, Thornton, Toews, and Getzlaf were ahead of him.

There's a long list of reasons why this would be a ****ing terrible idea and only one reason why it's a good idea...and it's a pretty flimsy reason at that: "because it worked in the Olympics".
Well, it WAS what Laviolette did when the Flyers were desperate to win game 6 in the SCF:

He went down to three lines and put Carter back at C:

Richards-Carter-Giroux
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
Gagne-Powe-JVR

Asham got bumped from 3rd line by Powe and barely played.
http://flyers.nhl.com/club/boxscore.htm?id=2009030416
Asham-Betts-Lappy

Of course, this assumes that Laviolette is going to have some say in what the lines are this year.....

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07-29-2010, 05:40 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Well, it WAS what Laviolette did when the Flyers were desperate to win game 6 in the SCF:

He went down to three lines and put Carter back at C:

Richards-Carter-Giroux
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
Gagne-Powe-JVR

Asham got bumped from 3rd line by Powe and barely played.
http://flyers.nhl.com/club/boxscore.htm?id=2009030416
Asham-Betts-Lappy

Of course, this assumes that Laviolette is going to have some say in what the lines are this year.....
Well, desperate times, desperate measures, yada yada.

Both Carter and Richards should be centres on this team. It's a giant waste of their two-way talents to play on the wing. It is Giroux and Briere that need to make better use of their time on the wing.

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07-29-2010, 06:08 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Well, desperate times, desperate measures, yada yada.

Both Carter and Richards should be centres on this team. It's a giant waste of their two-way talents to play on the wing. It is Giroux and Briere that need to make better use of their time on the wing.
True, but 'who knows what Lavy's going to do until he does it?' was my point.

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Old
07-29-2010, 08:18 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
I just dont think Giroux with Carter is an effective use of Giroux. Carter doesnt need him to score goals.

Giroux with Zherdev may be more dynamic, and playing Hartnell with Carter and JVR would still allow Carter to score goals.
Giroux could be effective but he needs to be at center and Carter would have to move to the wing, this is the only answer. Carter does not create for other players, he is a shooter, whereas Giroux creates for others so putting Carter on the LW and Zherdev on the RW it gives Giroux two players who benefit from his ability to create space with the puck and see the ice.

Bottom line is Giroux is a damn good player and needs to be utilized in a position where you maximize his talents and put players who could complement his skill level.

On the other side is who can you put JvR to get him to raise the level of his game. JvR needs to be with some guys who are physical IMO, it is the one part of the game that is lacking and one reason why JvR should never play a shift with Carter. Richards and Carcillo provide this balance.

After the playoffs it is clear that Hartnell benefitted from being with some new players after a really disappointing year. At the same time it is pretty obvious that Briere needs to be at center for the same reasons Giroux does, he creates space by being able to see the ice and freeze the defenses. With the success of this line during the playoffs it should be given the first shift of the new season, Leino is the wild card here. Can he play a full season and continue to be productive and does the hip act up during the season?


Bottom line:

Hartnell/Briere/Leino
Carter/Giroux/Zherdev
JvR/Richards/Carcillo
Shelley/Betts/Laperriere/Powe

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Old
07-29-2010, 08:21 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Well, desperate times, desperate measures, yada yada.

Both Carter and Richards should be centres on this team. It's a giant waste of their two-way talents to play on the wing. It is Giroux and Briere that need to make better use of their time on the wing.
Was the run to the SCF's a result of Carters two-way play or a result of Giroux and Briere causing matchup problems for defenses and what they did offensively? Richards I agree with, Carter needs to be more flexible and play where the spot is open and what will benefit the team. Briere and Giroux were experimented on the wings last season and the end result was they were most productive when at center during the playoffs.

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07-29-2010, 09:24 AM
  #117
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People act like Briere was a train wreck on the wing. Other posters have shown his stats on the wing and they are solid numbers. I also don't think he as disaster at center.

I think he has to play on the wing because he is a better goal scorer on the wing then Giroux. Briere has a much better shot.

Hartnell - Richards - Zherdev

JVR - Carter - Leino (Leino could have trouble keeping up on that line but he also would allow JVR to play more in the slot.)

Carcillo - Giroux - Briere

Shelley - Betts - Lappy

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07-29-2010, 10:09 AM
  #118
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I like them, but the JVR-Giroux-Zherdev line would be pretty bad defensively unless JVR steps his defensive game up a lot (not saying he's bad, but no where near enough to cover for Zherdev).
Who cares? You're not putting them out there to play defense. You're putting them out there because you want the line to generate offense and score goals. I can live with the defensive miscues of three young players if they're going to generate lots of offense.

For the first time in a long time, we've got the horses to go out and run a high powered offensive team. Why neuter them by playing a defensive system?

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07-29-2010, 10:39 AM
  #119
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Who cares? You're not putting them out there to play defense. You're putting them out there because you want the line to generate offense and score goals. I can live with the defensive miscues of three young players if they're going to generate lots of offense.

For the first time in a long time, we've got the horses to go out and run a high powered offensive team. Why neuter them by playing a defensive system?
Two things that seem to go unnoticed.

1) Flyers have stacked up on the defense, I think they are going to be able to handle any matchups, or the posturing that Briere is vulnerable to being soft defensively. If anyone watched the playoffs you could see his game change and he was much more physical than say.....Cartsie.

2) The more offensive zone time a line gets the less time you spend in the defensive zone, this is puck possession. Briere has the ability to handle the puck, gain the zone with possession, and the work the puck to the open space, much like Giroux. This type of play gives the offense a good chance to make good line changes to provide better matchups when needed.

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07-29-2010, 10:46 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Giroux could be effective but he needs to be at center and Carter would have to move to the wing, this is the only answer. Carter does not create for other players, he is a shooter, whereas Giroux creates for others so putting Carter on the LW and Zherdev on the RW it gives Giroux two players who benefit from his ability to create space with the puck and see the ice.

Bottom line is Giroux is a damn good player and needs to be utilized in a position where you maximize his talents and put players who could complement his skill level.

On the other side is who can you put JvR to get him to raise the level of his game. JvR needs to be with some guys who are physical IMO, it is the one part of the game that is lacking and one reason why JvR should never play a shift with Carter. Richards and Carcillo provide this balance.

After the playoffs it is clear that Hartnell benefitted from being with some new players after a really disappointing year. At the same time it is pretty obvious that Briere needs to be at center for the same reasons Giroux does, he creates space by being able to see the ice and freeze the defenses. With the success of this line during the playoffs it should be given the first shift of the new season, Leino is the wild card here. Can he play a full season and continue to be productive and does the hip act up during the season?


Bottom line:

Hartnell/Briere/Leino
Carter/Giroux/Zherdev
JvR/Richards/Carcillo
Shelley/Betts/Laperriere/Powe
I just don't understand the logic of hurting Carter's production to improve Giroux's. If they are both better at center then you go with what you know, and what you know is that Jeff Carter is good for 35+ goals and 70 points if he plays 80 games at center.

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07-29-2010, 11:09 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
I just don't understand the logic of hurting Carter's production to improve Giroux's. If they are both better at center then you go with what you know, and what you know is that Jeff Carter is good for 35+ goals and 70 points if he plays 80 games at center.
I am going with the guy who is going to make the players around him better if he has the puck. We all know what Carter can do(skate up the wing, gain the zone with speed and shoot high and wide or into the defenders pads), but given the choice with either Carter or Giroux having the puck on his stick to set up the players around him who do you choose?

People are acting like Carter cannot score from the wing, not sure where this is coming from. If Giroux could give you 20-50 while playing center and Carter could give you 30-30 with Zherdev giving you 25-30 would you be happy with that lines production?

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07-29-2010, 11:33 AM
  #122
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I bet Hartnell - Briere - Leino will not be a line after a few games.

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07-29-2010, 11:37 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
I am going with the guy who is going to make the players around him better if he has the puck. We all know what Carter can do(skate up the wing, gain the zone with speed and shoot high and wide or into the defenders pads), but given the choice with either Carter or Giroux having the puck on his stick to set up the players around him who do you choose?

People are acting like Carter cannot score from the wing, not sure where this is coming from. If Giroux could give you 20-50 while playing center and Carter could give you 30-30 with Zherdev giving you 25-30 would you be happy with that lines production?
Because you're going on the assumption that Giroux is going to put up 70 points, whereas Carter it's been proven. I think the gain's of Giroux and Carter at center are off set by the other's loss playing wing. Therefore I would rather them go with the player who is better defensively and much better on faceoffs.

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07-29-2010, 11:56 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
Because you're going on the assumption that Giroux is going to put up 70 points, whereas Carter it's been proven. I think the gain's of Giroux and Carter at center are off set by the other's loss playing wing. Therefore I would rather them go with the player who is better defensively and much better on faceoffs.
Giroux has scored more playoff points in two years and 29 playoff games by age 22 than Carter has at age 25 and 41 playoff games. So what is your point?

You are playing fantasy hockey and looking at the stats, I am giving you a reason as to why Giroux should be at center and it has everything to do with utilizing the most of the most talented players. Claude Giroux is a more well-rounded, talented player who makes his linemates better than what Jeff Carter offers.

Who says Jeffie cannot take faceoffs? And defensively I would care to argue that Giroux is a very underrated defensive player who sees the game better than Carter and is still younger at this point. This is Giroux's breakout season, maybe Jeffie has to give up a couple goals to help the overall team chemistry and play? Maybe he can learn how to park his fat a$$ in front of the net and get a little dirty?

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07-29-2010, 12:09 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Giroux has scored more playoff points in two years and 29 playoff games by age 22 than Carter has at age 25 and 41 playoff games. So what is your point?

You are playing fantasy hockey and looking at the stats
, I am giving you a reason as to why Giroux should be at center and it has everything to do with utilizing the most of the most talented players. Claude Giroux is a more well-rounded, talented player who makes his linemates better than what Jeff Carter offers.

Who says Jeffie cannot take faceoffs? And defensively I would care to argue that Giroux is a very underrated defensive player who sees the game better than Carter and is still younger at this point. This is Giroux's breakout season, maybe Jeffie has to give up a couple goals to help the overall team chemistry and play? Maybe he can learn how to park his fat a$$ in front of the net and get a little dirty?
Well the bolded part is pretty ironic. The rest of it, well it's clear your just a Carter hater.

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