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07-26-2010, 02:33 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Byers can play in this league. His game is suited for it.

He's straight forward. Go to the net hard, stay there, get rebound, score.

Weise is basically a Ryan Callahan clone, but bigger, and possibly a bit more skilled.

If you can get a kid like James Neal in return for Callahan, then you do that trade. Neal is 22 years old, both years in the NHL scored 24+ goals. And scored 55 points last season. Add his size and grit.
I'm sorry, I don't see it. Weise on par with Callahan? More skilled? Even his AHL numbers aren't comparable with Callahan's, let along what he may do at the NHL.

If people want to include Callahan in a package, so be it. But let's not kid ourself into thinking that guys like Weise or Byers replace him.

And not to get too off subject here, but if Neal is a LW, wouldn't it make more sense to trade Dubinsky for him, rather than Callahan? At least those two we can say are expected to fill the same role.

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07-26-2010, 02:34 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I'm sorry, I don't see it. Weise on par with Callahan? More skilled? Even his AHL numbers aren't comparable with Callahan's, let along what he may do at the NHL.

If people want to include Callahan in a package, so be it. But let's not kid ourself into thinking that guys like Weise or Byers replace him.

And not to get too off subject here, but if Neal is a LW, wouldn't it make more sense to trade Dubinsky for him, rather than Callahan? At least those two we can say are expected to fill the same role.
I think a better way to go about this would be to try and acquire Neal and Richards in a package.

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Old
07-26-2010, 02:36 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I definitely think you're underselling Weise here, Edge. I know you haven't been a fan of the kid, really, but he proved he was a valuable pick in the AHL so far. He's got solid hands around the net and can really dig home garbage goals. I'm not saying he'll be a 60 point player, but I don't think a 20-20 or 25-15 40 point 3rd liner is a big stretch for him. He'll get a shot this year and, really, is already a good 4th liner in terms of skill and play.

He'll probably put up 10-15 points this year and then shoot up a bit his second year (which he's done throughout his career).

I really like the kid and have since we picked him. Got a good head on his shoulders and a knack for pucks around the net.
Not underselling him at all, he's a possible fourth line player. But I certainly don't see him being on par with Callahan, who scored 3 more goals in literally half the AHL games.

Personally, I think quite the opposite. I think we're overselling him here. And if there's one thing this board knows how to do...

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07-26-2010, 02:38 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I think a better way to go about this would be to try and acquire Neal and Richards in a package.
If I'm Dallas you better be starting with a package centered around Staal and Dubinsky before I continue to the conversation.

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07-26-2010, 02:39 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Not underselling him at all, he's a possible fourth line player. But I certainly don't see him being on par with Callahan, who scored 3 more goals in literally half the AHL games.

Personally, I think quite the opposite. I think we're overselling him here. And if there's one thing this board knows how to do...
Eh, having watched the kid progress through juniors and now the AHL, he just gets it done. He's not flashy and no, not a better player than Callahan (as Callahan will bring far more defense to the table than Weise will). But I can definitely see him putting up 40 points in a few years.

Weiss has been your average prospect who struggles his first year and really turns it on after. I would guess he'd put up 65 points or so in the AHL this year if I had to guess if he was sent down.

His knack around the net, though, is just uncanny. He has a great feel for where the puck is in traffic. Valuable trait which will help him out a lot in the NHL.

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07-26-2010, 02:40 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
If I'm Dallas you better be starting with a package centered around Staal and Dubinsky before I continue to the conversation.
I'd counter with other prospects but Dubinsky would be in the deal 100%. I don't think Dallas could land Staal, but they would get a good haul from us.

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07-26-2010, 02:46 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Eh, having watched the kid progress through juniors and now the AHL, he just gets it done. He's not flashy and no, not a better player than Callahan (as Callahan will bring far more defense to the table than Weise will). But I can definitely see him putting up 40 points in a few years.

Weiss has been your average prospect who struggles his first year and really turns it on after. I would guess he'd put up 65 points or so in the AHL this year if I had to guess if he was sent down.

His knack around the net, though, is just uncanny. He has a great feel for where the puck is in traffic. Valuable trait which will help him out a lot in the NHL.
I think the key is average prospect. He excels as he gets older versus the competition and they use him more. I think he could make it as a fourth liner, MAYBE a third liner, but when you start getting into the 20 goal/40 point range you're getting into territory with some pretty surprising names.

To me there is a big gap between a guy like Callahan and a guy like Weise. Callahan is a very good third liner who is a borderline second liner. Weise is possibly a very good fourth liner, who is a borderline third liner.

But when people start talking about replacing one with the other, it's just off. I just don't see a 22-year old 28 goal scorer at the AHL level, only dropping by about 8 goals at the NHL level. Hard work is Weise's main attribute, but at some point the fact remains that he has a pretty limited skill set.

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07-26-2010, 02:47 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I'd counter with other prospects but Dubinsky would be in the deal 100%. I don't think Dallas could land Staal, but they would get a good haul from us.
I just don't see a team willing to trade a 70-90 point, two-way center, and a 23-year-old power forward on the cusp of 30 goals for anything less than at least two certain NHL players.

I don't think throwing a boat load of prospects at Dallas lands both.

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07-26-2010, 03:03 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I just don't see a team willing to trade a 70-90 point, two-way center, and a 23-year-old power forward on the cusp of 30 goals for anything less than at least two certain NHL players.

I don't think throwing a boat load of prospects at Dallas lands both.
Granted, I'd move both Callahan and Dubinsky for him as well as prospects. Two legitimate NHLers (Dubinsky still has very good upside) to go along with the picks and young'ins.

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07-26-2010, 03:13 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
Why does it seem that way? Sather has resisted trading either of them for this long...I mean Danny Heatley wasn't enough to lose one of them...
Dany Heatley is a locker room cancer. After a few seasons he will ruin the Sharks locker room... watch.

I don't know why Sather is so hesitant to trade Dubinsky. Dubi has great heart and passion but he's just not as skilled as most of us hoped he would become.

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Old
07-26-2010, 03:24 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Granted, I'd move both Callahan and Dubinsky for him as well as prospects. Two legitimate NHLers (Dubinsky still has very good upside) to go along with the picks and young'ins.
Jon, I have to admit I just don't see it. My own belief that the cost is a bit high and I still don't think we're at the point to make those kind of deals aside, I just don't know if I make that deal if I'm Dallas.

Richards has always been a very underrated player in this league, but is very, very good. Neal is exactly the king of player teams are looking for. There aren't many 6'3, 200+ pound players who can score, fight and play on your top two lines.

Dallas is trading 50-60 goals and 110-130 points, including one player who could play at a higher level for another 10 years. I think they'd ask for Staal, Dubinsky, a first round pick and at least a pretty good prospect.

That seems like a lot for a Rangers team that is finally producing enough prospect results to get something that could resemble a functioning team.

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