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MLD 2010 Sir Allan Montagu Semi Final: #1 Florida Hammerheads vs. #4 St. Mary’s Huski

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07-23-2010, 02:56 PM
  #1
Dreakmur
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MLD 2010 Sir Allan Montagu Semi Final: #1 Florida Hammerheads vs. #4 St. Mary’s Huski

Sir Allan Montagu Semi Final Round


Florida Hammerheads

coach Frank Patrick

Marc Tardif (A) - Craig Janney - Dolly Swift
Robert McDougall - Paul Haynes - Bruce Ridpath
Bob Gracie - Moose Watson - Joe Lamb
Stan Jonathan - Samuel Pahlsson - Anders Kallur
Sergei Nemchinov - Ran McDonald

Howard McNamara (C) - Duncan Keith
Haldor Halderson - Kjell Samuelsson
Miroslav Dvorak - Phat Wilson (A)
Jim Morrison

Bill Ranford
Eddie Johnston


vs.


St. Mary's Huskies

coaches Joel Quenneville & Father David Bauer

Greg Sheppard - Mike Rogers - Bill Goldsworthy (A)
Danny Grant - Scott Gomez - Fred Whitcroft
Lorne Henning - Mike Ricci (A) - Leroy Goldsworthy
Zach Parise - Andy Blair - Dave Schultz
Alexei Zhamnov

Kenny Jonsson - Dave Maloney
Mattias Norstrom (C) - Pekka Rautakallio
Garry Galley - Sylvain Lefebvre
Tex Evans

Olaf Kolzig
Cam Ward


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07-23-2010, 03:12 PM
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markrander87
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To start things off, Was Dolly Swift a 3rd pairing dman in last years MLD?

Also im concerned with the lack of grit and puck winning presence on that top line.

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07-23-2010, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
To start things off, Was Dolly Swift a 3rd pairing dman in last years MLD?
He played rover sometimes, but was mainly a forward. His offensive numbers were under-appreciated in last year's draft.

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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Also im concerned with the lack of grit and puck winning presence on that top line.
Tardif looks like he was decently gritty, but that side of the game was sacrificed for offense in his WHA days. He fought Keith Magnusson, Gerry Unger, Bobby Orr, Brad Park, Barclay Plager, Bill Fairbairn, etc. He had PIMs as high as 133. I only found one explicit mention of his work in the corners (Mar. 2, 1972 Montreal Gazette). Dolly Swift participated in a rivalry with Weldy Young described as "barbarous", which doesn't seem like something a soft player would do. It's not a tough line and it's not going to push your team around, but they should hold their own. Tardif can work as the puck winner, Swift as the puck mover, and Janney as the set up guy.

Plus Craig Janney fought Chris Osgood once. Be afraid Kolzig, be afraid

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07-23-2010, 04:09 PM
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The dreaded Mike Ricci vs. Craig Janney matchup!

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07-23-2010, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
The dreaded Mike Ricci vs. Craig Janney matchup!

Ooh, you're right. That was big for us last time

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07-25-2010, 03:39 PM
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First off, good luck to St. Mary's, here's to a good series.

The first thing I see is that the fourth line makes little sense to me. I can't tell what the purpose of this line is; having a guy like Parise indicates a scoring line, yet Schultz on the other wing immediately contradicts this.

I'll see if I can get some other notes in later.

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07-25-2010, 09:34 PM
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I wonder how long it will take Jonathan and Schultz to fight?

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07-26-2010, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
First off, good luck to St. Mary's, here's to a good series.

The first thing I see is that the fourth line makes little sense to me. I can't tell what the purpose of this line is; having a guy like Parise indicates a scoring line, yet Schultz on the other wing immediately contradicts this.

I'll see if I can get some other notes in later.
Thanks, good luck to you as well.

Regarding our fourth line, we want this to be a clear energy line who are able to contribute offensively as well. Im not sure how many fourth lines can lay claim to 3 top 10's in points.

All three players bring a high energy grinding work ethic to the table, with each having a different style of play.

Zach Parise- Two top 10's in goals, NHL 2nd all-star team.

LOH
Quote:
Parise's career would continue on the upswing. He recorded 45 goals and 94 points in 2008-09, establishing himself as a bonafide NHL scoring threat, his speed and tenacity on the puck surely his greatest weapon.

Dave Schultz- I think we all know Schulzty's purpose on this team, 7 top 10's in PIM's. Ask any Broad Street Bully or anybody who have seen the documentary made about them and they will tell you Schultz's fights would sway th emomentum of the game, and even of the series in favour of his team.

LOH

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Often looked upon as the baddest man in hockey, Dave "The Hammer" Schultz's reputation tended to precede him.

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But Dave also proved he was a pretty decent hockey player for those who were willing to look past his penalty antics. He scored 20 goals in 1973-74 - the first year that the Flyers won the Stanley Cup. This despite sitting in the penalty box for a league high 348 minutes. He was also an effective defensive forward,

Andy Blair With a 2nd in assists and 3rd in points Andy Blair was one of the largest players of his time at 6'2 180 pounds. Blair was known for his aggressive style of play, playing on the Pepper boys line for the Leafs.

GHL

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the Pepper Boys line," a revolutionary third line that was known for its "peppery" or aggressive style of play.

Blair was also known for his clutch play in the Stanley cup finals

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Blair chipped in with some timely offense as well. In the third and Cup clinching game, Blair scored the first two goals of the game

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In 1933 Blair continued to improve his reputation as a go-to player in the playoffs. He was instrumental in the Leafs 1-0 five overtimes game against Boston on April 3rd. Though Ken Doraty gets the credit for scoring the goal, it was Andy Blair who stripped Hall of Famer Eddie Shore's pass and set up Doraty for the quick shot past Tiny Thompson.

Overall, We feel more than confident that we have one of the better 4th lines in our league. So for our opponents to feel that is the weak spot of our team is a great boost of confidence for the Huskies.

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07-26-2010, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
He played rover sometimes, but was mainly a forward. His offensive numbers were under-appreciated in last year's draft.
Under-appreciated enough to move from a 3rd pairing D to being considered a top knotch 1st line RW??

Quote:
Tardif looks like he was decently gritty, but that side of the game was sacrificed for offense in his WHA days. He fought Keith Magnusson, Gerry Unger, Bobby Orr, Brad Park, Barclay Plager, Bill Fairbairn, etc. He had PIMs as high as 133. I only found one explicit mention of his work in the corners (Mar. 2, 1972 Montreal Gazette). Dolly Swift participated in a rivalry with Weldy Young described as "barbarous", which doesn't seem like something a soft player would do. It's not a tough line and it's not going to push your team around, but they should hold their own. Tardif can work as the puck winner, Swift as the puck mover, and Janney as the set up guy.
So who is your puck winner Swift?? Surely Tardiff and Janney arent, and the one piece of information we have regarding Swifts corner work is a fight with Weldy Young??


Another big question mark the Huskies are seeing is the Hammerheads 2nd D pairing. Kjell Samuelsson will be exploited for his slow skating allowing our much faster forwards especially Gomez to burn by him. Is there any evidence of Halderson being a great skater? Because he's going to have to be.

Regarding Goaltending, if I have to go into why Kolzig>>Ranford tell us but as for now Kolzigs Vezina and .927 Playoff Save % will do all the talking, compared to Ranford who played on a stacked Oilers team.

------------------------------------------------------------

Now on to The Huskies Greatest advantage Craig Janney vs Mike Ricci/Andy Blair

We are all well aware of Janney, yes a great playmaker but he is known for his legendary softness

Quote:
However Janney was also labeled as a very soft player. The game plan against Janney was to hit him early and he would not be a factor for the remainder of the game. He would often just turnover the puck rather than take a hit to make a play. During his prime he was more willing to get his face rubbed against the glass, but in his latter years he lost a step and was unable to sneak away from a big hit. That of course, coupled with his spotty defensive play, landed him in many coaches and fans dog house.

Yes we are well aware that the Hammerheads have home ice advantage, but we feel that when we shut doen their 1st line the rest of their lines will not be able to pick up the slack. We have several forwards: Ricci,Bill Goldsworthy, Sheppard, Grant, Henning,Leroy Goldsworthy, and Andy Blair who are known for their aggresive bang and crash style of play who will all get more than ample playing time to hammer Janney and make him a non factor.


Last edited by markrander87: 07-26-2010 at 08:59 AM.
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07-26-2010, 09:42 AM
  #10
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A couple of things carried forward from the last round that are still applicable. Mark did a good job discussing our fourth line but also note that Goldsworthy will be rotated on the fourth line sometimes as noted below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stalberg View Post
Powerplay 1
Whitcroft - Rogers - B. Goldsworthy
Rautakallio - Galley

Powerplay 2
Parise - Gomez - Grant
Maloney - Jonsson

Penalty Kill 1
Ricci - Henning
Norstrom - Lefebvre

Penalty Kill 2
Sheppard - L. Goldsworthy
Maloney - Jonsson
For this series we will have either Ricci's or Rogers' line on for all defensive zone faceoffs and Sheppard will continue to take draws in the defensive zone for that line due to his faceoff prowess. Doing this should limit the amount of time that the Hammerheads top line gets on against our 2nd and 4th lines. Winning faceoffs will play a huge part in the posession game and matchup game, and I believe the Huskies are in a good position to take charge of the faceoff circle with two high end faceoff men.

Ideally we would love Ricci on at any opportunity to chew up and spit out Janney in this series.

Long day of work ahead, I hope to make some more comments tonight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stalberg View Post
The Huskies fully intend to roll all four forward lines, and hope to get Rogers' line out with the most frequency. The second and fourth line will both be relied on for secondary scoring, while both bringing different styles of attack. Depending on if the situation calls for it, coach Quenneville has indicated his willingness to slot B. Goldsworthy in for Schultz on the third scoring line (fourth line) when the opportunity presents itself, for the additional offensive threat. The fact that all four lines will see a good amount of even stregnth time means that Goldsworthy should be fresh enough to do so. Circumstances such as offensive zone faceoffs, shifts late in the period, or whenever we are down a goal or tied in the third.

All three of the Huskies defense pairings have the ability to move the puck and play sound defense. There are no flashy, or spectacular weapons, but also no real liabilities. We are comfortable enough with our defense to roll any of our pairings against any of Belleville's lines, as long as we get the desired matchups up front. Spreading the minutes relatively evenly over all three pairings at even stregnth should keep everyone pretty fresh. The fact that our top PP pair and top PK pair don't play on the opposite special teams units will help in the same regard.

Preliminary minute allocation (subject to adjustment):

Assuming 6 minutes of both PP and PK time, on average, per game.

Forwards
NamePPPKESTotal
Greg Sheppard041317
Mike Rogers301316
Bill Goldsworthy301518
Danny Grant301215
Scott Gomez301215
Fred Whitcroft301215
Lorne Henning04.51216.5
Mike Ricci04.51216.5
Leroy Goldsworthy041216
Zach Parise311115
Andy Blair001111
Dave Schultz0099
Total1818144180

Defense
NamePPPKESTotal
Kenny Jonsson231823
Dave Maloney231722
Pekka Rautakallio4015.519.5
Mattias Norstrom031619
Garry Galley401519
Sylvain Lefebvre0314.517.5
Total121296120

Parise will fill in as required on the PK, and Blair will do the same on the PP.

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07-26-2010, 10:33 AM
  #11
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I'd like to make note that although Paul Haynes has 4 top 10's in assists, his playoff resume is well below mediocre: 10 points in 24 playoff games is a glaring stat.

Compared to the Huskies 2nd line centre Scott Gomez who has 95 points in 133 career playoff games including 2 cups, its clear that the Huskies have that edge as well.

Regarding 4th lines, I would like to hear the purpose of the Hammerheads 4th line? Zero career top 10's in any offensive category and with no real crash and bang players either?

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07-26-2010, 12:36 PM
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Are there any questions regarding points made by Stalberg or I, or of any of the match-ups the Huskies intend on using. Does everybody on hear believe that Goldsworthy>>Tardif.

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07-26-2010, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Regarding Goaltending, if I have to go into why Kolzig>>Ranford tell us but as for now Kolzigs Vezina and .927 Playoff Save % will do all the talking, compared to Ranford who played on a stacked Oilers team.
Kolzig is better, but you make Ranford sound like Osgood when he really won MVPs in two high profile tournaments.

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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Regarding 4th lines, I would like to hear the purpose of the Hammerheads 4th line? Zero career top 10's in any offensive category and with no real crash and bang players either?
It's clearly a checking line. And in what world is Jonathan not crash and bang?

Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Surely Tardiff and Janney arent, and the one piece of information we have regarding Swifts corner work is a fight with Weldy Young??
No, Tardiff is. He was gritty before his WHA days. The Young fight was evidence Swift wasn't soft. Besides, there's numerous ways for offensive lines to work. Florida's offensive potential outweighs St. Mary's. There's not a lot of top-10 scoring finishes on St. Mary's. Of their 5 NHL forwards in the top 6, only Mike Rogers managed to be top 10 in points (he did it twice). Gomez led the league in assists in 04 and Goldsworthy and Grant were top-5 in goals once each (Goldsworthy was 6th once as well).

Adding in Parise and Blair gives St. Mary's 4 NHL top-10s in points while Florida has 6 top-10s (in addition to Swift, Tardif, and McDougall who played outside the NHL). Swift/McDougall were arguably the best players of their time which further adds to Florida's offensive potential and Tardif was the one of the best WHA players.

St. Mary's Top 6 three highest scoring finishes:
Greg Sheppard: 23rd, 30th, 32nd
Mike Rogers: 5th, 8th, 13th
Bill Goldsworthy: 18th, 21st, 22nd
Danny Grant: 14th, 20th, 41st
Scott Gomez: 20th, 23rd, 26th
Fred Whitcroft: Amateur

Florida's:
Craig Janney: 6th, 9th, 14th
Paul Haynes: 4th, 9th, 29th
Dolly Swift: 1st, 1st, 2nd
Robert McDougall: 1st, 3rd, 5th
Bruce Ridpath: 4th, 9th
Marc Tardiff: 1st, 1st, 6th (WHA)


Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
During his prime he was more willing to get his face rubbed against the glass, but in his latter years he lost a step and was unable to sneak away from a big hit.
Considering everyone in this draft is in their 3 year prime, Janney's softness is over-exaggerated.

Florida has the defence advantage over St. Mary's with having an elite top pairing (the two best defencemen in the series are on Florida). Both players are strong offensively and defensively with Keith playing a smooth skating game and McNamara a vicious physical game (like a better real-life pairing of Keith-Seabrook). They can handle playing high minutes in all situations (25-28 minutes a game).


Last edited by Hedberg: 07-28-2010 at 08:58 PM.
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07-26-2010, 01:24 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
Kolzig is better, but you make Ranford sound like Osgood when he really won MVPs in two high profile tournaments.

Thats all we needed to hear.

Quote:
It's clearly a checking line. And in what world is Jonathan not crash and bang?
So you want to mention how our 4th line doesnt make sense, and then you have Kallur and Pahlsson playing with Jonathan (Who Schultz would destroy whenever deemed necessary) so its a defensive line, they will be matched up against our top line?? You havent mentioned any match-ups.

Quote:
No, Tardiff is. He was gritty before his WHA days. The Young fight was evidence Swift wasn't soft. Besides, there's numerous ways for offensive lines to work. Florida's offensive potential outweighs St. Mary's. There's not a lot of top-10 scoring finishes on St. Mary's. Of their 5 NHL forwards in the top 6, only Mike Rogers managed to be top 10 in points (he did it twice). Gomez led the league in assists in 04 and Goldsworthy and Grant were top-5 in goals once each (Goldsworthy was 6th once as well).
If you want to try and win this series on pure top 10's go for it. Janney is the softest player in the top 1000 players of all-time, your going to have to do a better job of surrounding him by tougher players and Marc Tardiff isnt going to cut it. Dolly Swift has one quote regarding his toughness, Alex Semin has fought before does that make him tough?? We need hard evidence if you want to rely on Dolly Swift bringing some toughness to the table. Also to outright say you have the best offensive potential is not true at all. The Huskies have the best sniper on either team in Bill Goldsworthy.


Quote:
Adding in Parise gives St. Mary's 3 NHL top-10s in points while Florida has 6 top-10s (in addition to Swift, Tardif, and McDougall who played outside the NHL). Swift/McDougall were arguably the best players of their time which further adds to Florida's offensive potential and Tardif was the one of the best WHA players.

St. Mary's Top 6 three highest scoring finishes:
Greg Sheppard: 23rd, 30th, 32nd
Mike Rogers: 5th, 8th, 13th
Bill Goldsworthy: 18th, 21st, 22nd
Danny Grant: 14th, 20th, 41st
Scott Gomez: 20th, 23rd, 26th
Fred Whitcroft: Amateur

Florida's:
Craig Janney: 6th, 9th, 14th
Paul Haynes: 4th, 9th, 29th
Dolly Swift: 1st, 1st, 2nd ............... AHAC!!!
Robert McDougall: 1st, 3rd, 5th ..........AHAC!!!
Bruce Ridpath: 4th, 9th
Marc Tardiff: 1st, 1st, 6th (WHA).......WHA!!
Please let's not ignore the fact that Marc Tardiff played 8 seasons in the NHL
yes he played in the WHA for the majority of his prime, but if he is such an offensive presence then why oh why couldnt he at least muster up one top 10 in any offensive category???


Lets be realistic here you cant give the same value to those other leagues in top 10's its not reasonable. Should I go out and draft Jason Krog because he has a bunch of top 10's in the AHL?? Give me a break.


I hope Duncan Keith plans on playing 40 mins a game, even still he's only played in 5 seasons one ASG and then this years Norris. Let's not get away from the fact that Jonsson has the same if not more career value, including winning top defenseman honours in the 2006 Olympics.

As well as leading a young untalented Isles team to their first career playoff birth in almost 9 years

LOH

Quote:
In 1997-98 his importance to the team was illustrated by his third overall ranking in average shifts per game among NHL defencemen (28.89). A member of Sweden's Olympic Team at the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City, Jonsson continued to be a solid two-way defender and leader of the young Islanders as they reached the post-season in 2001-02 for the first time since 1993-94 season.

EDIT: Did you miss the comment on Kjell Samuelsson or just choose to ignore it?


Last edited by markrander87: 07-26-2010 at 01:35 PM.
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07-26-2010, 01:51 PM
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Yeah no way I can resist commenting later now. Damn work getting in the way.

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07-26-2010, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Thanks, good luck to you as well.

Regarding our fourth line, we want this to be a clear energy line who are able to contribute offensively as well. Im not sure how many fourth lines can lay claim to 3 top 10's in points.

All three players bring a high energy grinding work ethic to the table, with each having a different style of play.
The bolded contradicts itself. How is it a clear energy line when you admit that none of the players play similarly? Parise (a talented offensive forward), and Schultz (enforcer) are polar opposites. Rather then that line providing a lot of scoring as well as toughness and grit, I'd be rather inclined to think that it does neither of those things well enough to make any impact. Having Blair in the middle doesn't give this line any more of an identity. Maybe I'm underrating Parise's grit/Schultz ability to be anything but a goon.

Also, I'm only focusing on this because it's the first thing I noticed when I had little time to go into bigger issues. This isn't the only flaw on your team. Like I said earlier, I'll try and go over some other stuff later.

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07-26-2010, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
The bolded contradicts itself. How is it a clear energy line when you admit that none of the players play similarly? Parise (a talented offensive forward), and Schultz (enforcer) are polar opposites. Rather then that line providing a lot of scoring as well as toughness and grit, I'd be rather inclined to think that it does neither of those things well enough to make any impact. Having Blair in the middle doesn't give this line any more of an identity. Maybe I'm underrating Parise's grit/Schultz ability to be anything but a goon.

Also, I'm only focusing on this because it's the first thing I noticed when I had little time to go into bigger issues. This isn't the only flaw on your team. Like I said earlier, I'll try and go over some other stuff later.
Being an energy line doesnt mean that all three of the players have to play alike??

All three of our players bring a form of upbeat play to mesh into one great energy line that can produce as well.

1.Parise is the fiesty forward who will chase and win loose pucks as well as put the puck in the net.

2.)Blair is your prototypical big body presence who will crash and bang with the best of them and as well will set up Parise.

3.)Schultz is clearly the muscle for the team and is well documented on his ability to pound whoemever as well as crash and bang in the corners and drive the net. I wish some of you have seen the HBO Documentary on the Broad Street Bullies there is a great bit on how Schultz beating the tar out of this guy from the Rangers swayed the momentum of the series in favour of the Flyers. (If anybody has seen the documentary please speak up.)

If these three forwards dont scream high energy in your face play who can crash and bang and put the puck in the net for an MLD 4th line I dont know what does.

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07-26-2010, 03:30 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Thats all we needed to hear.
No. You made it out to be a huge mismatch, which it's not. I'm not going to deny Kolzig is a bit better, but Ranford is pretty decent as well. It won't be a dramatic factor

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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
So you want to mention how our 4th line doesnt make sense, and then you have Kallur and Pahlsson playing with Jonathan (Who Schultz would destroy whenever deemed necessary) so its a defensive line, they will be matched up against our top line?? You havent mentioned any match-ups.
What's wrong with Kallur/Pahlsson/Jonathan? Anaheim had Moen on it's extremely succesful checking line. Yes, it will match up against you top line


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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
If you want to try and win this series on pure top 10's go for it. Janney is the softest player in the top 1000 players of all-time, your going to have to do a better job of surrounding him by tougher players and Marc Tardiff isnt going to cut it. Dolly Swift has one quote regarding his toughness, Alex Semin has fought before does that make him tough??
Completely different. Having a vicious rivalry is more than fighting once and while it doesn't prove he's tough, it does proof he's not soft. And stop claiming Tardif isn't tough. A soft player wouldn't have his fight card. If it became a major issue, Lamb could move the line 1, Swift to 2, and Ridpath to 3. Lamb's as legimitate of a top liner as Sheppard is.

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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Also to outright say you have the best offensive potential is not true at all. The Huskies have the best sniper on either team in Bill Goldsworthy.
Debatable. Swift and McDougall were the two highest goal scorers of the 1890s (and eras are more or less equal). Marc Tardif has the most goals all time in the WHA, which had impressive top end talent.

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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Please let's not ignore the fact that Marc Tardiff played 8 seasons in the NHL
yes he played in the WHA for the majority of his prime, but if he is such an offensive presence then why oh why couldnt he at least muster up one top 10 in any offensive category???
Because, as you said, he spent his best years outside of the NHL. I don't see Goldsworthy putting up great numbers outside of his prime.

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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Lets be realistic here you cant give the same value to those other leagues in top 10's its not reasonable. Should I go out and draft Jason Krog because he has a bunch of top 10's in the AHL?? Give me a break.
It's insulting to the AHAC and the WHA to compare them to the AHL. The AHAC was the highest league while there's no equivalent to the WHA in modern hockey.


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I hope Duncan Keith plans on playing 40 mins a game, even still he's only played in 5 seasons one ASG and then this years Norris. Let's not get away from the fact that Jonsson has the same if not more career value, including winning top defenseman honours in the 2006 Olympics.
Not really. Keith's Norris is more important than a best defenceman at the Olympics because the sample size is way bigger. Keith played a huge role in a cup win while Jonsson was only an above average first pairing defenceman. I like Jonsson, but Keith's better (and McNamara even better)

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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
EDIT: Did you miss the comment on Kjell Samuelsson or just choose to ignore it?
Our defence can't all have the blazing speed of Mattias Norstrom. Samuelsson wasn't a great skater, but his problem was agility, not speed.

As for Halderson

Winnipeg Falcons:
Slim Halderson was a great puck carrier. He could weave his way down the right wing with uncanny control over the puck. Slim, who was six foot two inches tall, travelled down the ice at a much faster clip than the actions of his long limbs indicated. A few long strides and he'd be down to the other end of the rink before the opposition expected.

Looks like he was a very good skater.


Last edited by Hedberg: 07-26-2010 at 06:49 PM.
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07-26-2010, 03:48 PM
  #19
seventieslord
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compared to Ranford who played on a stacked Oilers team.
He did win the Smythe on that team.

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Regarding 4th lines, I would like to hear the purpose of the Hammerheads 4th line? Zero career top 10's in any offensive category and with no real crash and bang players either?


Stan Jonathan: 5'8", 175
Pierre Bouchard: 6'2", 205

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07-26-2010, 03:56 PM
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Lets be realistic here you cant give the same value to those other leagues in top 10's its not reasonable. Should I go out and draft Jason Krog because he has a bunch of top 10's in the AHL?? Give me a break.
The AHAC was the best league at the time.

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07-26-2010, 04:02 PM
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He did win the Smythe on that team.
Cam Ward won a Conn Smythe whats your point??





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Stan Jonathan: 5'8", 175
Pierre Bouchard: 6'2", 205
Again whats your point?? Show me Stan Jonathan beating up Dave Schultz then post.

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07-26-2010, 04:04 PM
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The AHAC was the best league at the time.
I give it more credit than Mark, but there is no way I'm being convinced that those finishes carry the same weight as post expansion top 10's and consistency.

As for the fight clip...I'm not impressed. I'm certain Schultz would pound Jonathan and I think he is exploitable on a checking line. Luckily he's matched up against the least threatening offensive player on our top line.

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07-26-2010, 04:14 PM
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I give it more credit than Mark, but there is no way I'm being convinced that those finishes carry the same weight as post expansion top 10's and consistency.
Maybe top-10s don't carry as much weight, but top-3s should (and retro Harts definitely should)

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As for the fight clip...I'm not impressed. I'm certain Schultz would pound Jonathan and I think he is exploitable on a checking line. Luckily he's matched up against the least threatening offensive player on our top line.
Yeah, Jonathan would probably loose to Schultz (but not in a disastrous way), but that won't determine the series (they did fight once in their careers).

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07-26-2010, 04:16 PM
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Cam Ward won a Conn Smythe whats your point??
What's yours? I just think it's interesting that the 1990 Oilers were "stacked" even though it was completely up in the air whether they could ever win without Gretzky, and he was the MVP of this stacked team. That should be good for him, not bad, no?

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Again whats your point?? Show me Stan Jonathan beating up Dave Schultz then post.
I was responding to the claim that they didn't have bang and crash players on the 4th line.

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I give it more credit than Mark, but there is no way I'm being convinced that those finishes carry the same weight as post expansion top 10's and consistency.
They don't... but even if you go as far as multiplying those finishes by 3 to account for smaller talent pool and the fact that some great players would have been scattered in other leagues, both Swift and McDougall look pretty good.

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As for the fight clip...I'm not impressed. I'm certain Schultz would pound Jonathan and I think he is exploitable on a checking line. Luckily he's matched up against the least threatening offensive player on our top line.
Again, only responding to the claim that he was not a bang and crash player. Don Cherry called him "pound for pound, the toughest player in the NHL".

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07-26-2010, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Cam Ward won a Conn Smythe whats your point??
Winning the Conn Smythe generally indicates you weren't just along for the ride. And Ranford did follow it up with the Canada Cup MVP the next year.

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