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Edmonton - Washington (Revised)

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07-23-2010, 11:13 PM
  #1
belair
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Edmonton - Washington (Revised)

Edited to attempt to avoid an early thread demise...

If the Caps were in the market for a PP-QB and Souray was potentially in their sights, would a deal surrounding these players be practical?



Sheldon Souray.........10/11...5.400M......11/12...5.400M
Taylor Chorney..........10/11...0.942M *ELC
2011 EDM 3rd Round Pick



Jason Chimaira..........10/11...1.875M......11/12...1.875M
Tom Poti..................10/11...3.500M

All-in-all, the Caps get their D-man, maintain their cap in 10/11, then add 3.535M in 11/12. They also add Chorney, a decent sized defenseman on an entry level contract with a solid outlet pass and top-four potential.

The Oilers add a decent veteran checking forward (with speed) to replace Ethan Moreau. They also bring in an veteran D-man and also ex-Oiler in Poti who can play a veteran role in the Oilers' current youth movement.

All-in-all the Oilers maintain their salary in 10/11 and save 3.525M in 11/12 when Poti comes off the books.


Last edited by belair: 07-24-2010 at 01:35 AM.
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07-23-2010, 11:24 PM
  #2
denkiteki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belair View Post
Spinning off from the Eklund thread...

If the Caps were in the market for a PP-QB and Souray was potentially in their sights, would a deal surrounding these players be practical?



Sheldon Souray.........10/11...5.400M......11/12...5.400M



Jason Chimaira..........10/11...1.875M......11/12...1.875M
Michael Nylander.......10/11...4.875M

All-in-all, the Caps get their D-man, drop 1.350M to the cap in 10/11, then add 3.535M in 11/12 (Note: Poti @ 3.500M off the books). They also remove Nylander's 10/11 cap-hit as his NMC is no longer in effect.

The Oilers add a decent veteran checking forward (with speed) to replace Ethan Moreau. They immediately buy-out Nylander's contract over two seasons which plays out as...

10/11......2.875M
11/12......1.000M

All-in-all the Oilers save 650K in 10/11 and 2.525M in 11/12.

Is the value far apart from either side? Are there other players that could be added to make the deal more favourable? Is it realistic?
I don't think the value is far off but buyout period ended already... so the theory of the Oilers buying out Nylander is without a doubt down the drain as there's no point buying him out June 15, 2011.

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07-23-2010, 11:34 PM
  #3
belair
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Originally Posted by denkiteki View Post
I don't think the value is far off but buyout period ended already... so the theory of the Oilers buying out Nylander is without a doubt down the drain as there's no point buying him out June 15, 2011.
Oops lol, something I have overlooked.

But it looked so good on paper.

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07-24-2010, 12:11 AM
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Fallschirmyager
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"then add 3.535M in 11/12"

that's the hang up right there. GMGM is not going to use up that much money when we have some of the younger players coming due for raises. I don't see Souray as the answer. I was also under the impression both Poti and Chimaera came off the books after this season. That extra year of 5.4 mil stops this.

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07-24-2010, 12:24 AM
  #5
belair
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallschirmyager View Post
"then add 3.535M in 11/12"

that's the hang up right there. GMGM is not going to use up that much money when we have some of the younger players coming due for raises. I don't see Souray as the answer. I was also under the impression both Poti and Chimaera came off the books after this season. That extra year of 5.4 mil stops this.
Chimaira is under contract in 2011/12.

As for the 3.5 cap hit. Alzner, Erskine, Gordon and one of either Varlamov or Neuvirth are likely to get considerable raises next summer. Laich sticks around at about 2.5M. Semin stays around his 6.0M hit or he's likely to be moved at the deadline. With their current 11/12 salary structure at 30M, it's not entirely unfathomable that Washington could eat Souray's salary if need be.

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07-24-2010, 12:30 AM
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Why is a simple name like Chimera getting butchered? Christ. The revised deal looks solid.

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07-24-2010, 12:32 AM
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victor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belair View Post
Oops lol, something I have overlooked.

But it looked so good on paper.
Not so fast.

If Brule goes to arbitration (and it's likely he will) Edmonton gets another crack at a buyout.

I can't see Chimera coming back to Edmonton, however. Would rather keep Souray (who I think will play good soldier, now that he's cleared waivers) and try to move/waive him at the deadline. With his cap hit and cost - he might be a good pickup for a team...

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07-24-2010, 12:39 AM
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anothe souray thread

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07-24-2010, 01:02 AM
  #9
belair
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alx83 View Post
Why is a simple name like Chimera getting butchered? Christ. The revised deal looks solid.
Sorry...Didn't want him getting mixed up with....


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07-24-2010, 01:04 AM
  #10
belair
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Originally Posted by victor View Post
Not so fast.

If Brule goes to arbitration (and it's likely he will) Edmonton gets another crack at a buyout.

I can't see Chimera coming back to Edmonton, however. Would rather keep Souray (who I think will play good soldier, now that he's cleared waivers) and try to move/waive him at the deadline. With his cap hit and cost - he might be a good pickup for a team...
Reason? Chimera seems like a very good fit on our bottom six.

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07-24-2010, 01:17 AM
  #11
Fallschirmyager
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belair View Post
Chimaira is under contract in 2011/12.

As for the 3.5 cap hit. Alzner, Erskine, Gordon and one of either Varlamov or Neuvirth are likely to get considerable raises next summer. Laich sticks around at about 2.5M. Semin stays around his 6.0M hit or he's likely to be moved at the deadline. With their current 11/12 salary structure at 30M, it's not entirely unfathomable that Washington could eat Souray's salary if need be.
Thanks for the clarification but to the point of "if needs be", GMGM won't operate like that unless it's do or die time. He has passed on even making offers to the UFA Dmen this summer, I don't think he's going to turn around and trade for someone he could have taken for free on waivers. He has become very conscious of when the next wave of kids needs a new contract and not jamming up the cap with over paid vets.

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07-24-2010, 01:27 AM
  #12
belair
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallschirmyager View Post
Thanks for the clarification but to the point of "if needs be", GMGM won't operate like that unless it's do or die time. He has passed on even making offers to the UFA Dmen this summer, I don't think he's going to turn around and trade for someone he could have taken for free on waivers. He has become very conscious of when the next wave of kids needs a new contract and not jamming up the cap with over paid vets.
Hence moving vets for vets...Simple asset management.

The proposal is set to the rumour that Washington is in the market for a PP QB. From my perspective the 2010/11 part of the deal is beneficial to the Caps as they fulfill that particular need without adding any salary. They lose out salary wise in 2011/12, but they are compensated with two decent assets in Chorney and the 3rd round pick.

Obviously my perspective isn't clearly in the Caps' favour...But if that particular rumour has any merit, is the compensation for the salary increase in 11/12 fair?

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07-24-2010, 01:49 AM
  #13
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So the caps give away two of there only players that showed up in the playoffs for a player they have no need for?

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07-24-2010, 01:53 AM
  #14
victor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belair View Post
Reason? Chimera seems like a very good fit on our bottom six.
His issues with Edmonton, and particularly MacTavish, are legendary. MacTavish may be gone, but there was clearly bad blood.

"Now I hate the Oilers, probably more than any other team in the NHL. Isn't that wild? I can't stand them. I'll probably always hate them, too, be a grumpy, old retired man, hating the Edmonton Oilers." - Edmonton native, and former Oiler, Jason Chimera, who now plays for Columbus

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07-24-2010, 01:54 AM
  #15
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This makes a lot of sense, assuming Washington could use a guy like Souray, which they might. I mean, how good is their PP when Green is off the ice?

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07-24-2010, 02:09 AM
  #16
belair
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victor View Post
His issues with Edmonton, and particularly MacTavish, are legendary. MacTavish may be gone, but there was clearly bad blood.

"Now I hate the Oilers, probably more than any other team in the NHL. Isn't that wild? I can't stand them. I'll probably always hate them, too, be a grumpy, old retired man, hating the Edmonton Oilers." - Edmonton native, and former Oiler, Jason Chimera, who now plays for Columbus
Looking at that interview...it seems like sour grapes way back when. I couldn't see Chimera nixing a deal to his hometown just because they gave up on him over half a decade ago. But those comments definitely could veer Tambellini and the Oilers away from him.

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07-24-2010, 04:15 AM
  #17
denkiteki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belair View Post
Sheldon Souray.........10/11...5.400M......11/12...5.400M
Taylor Chorney..........10/11...0.942M *ELC
2011 EDM 3rd Round Pick



Jason Chimaira..........10/11...1.875M......11/12...1.875M
Tom Poti..................10/11...3.500M
So basically the change you made from the original offer is
Taylor Chorney
2011 EDM 3rd Round Pick

for

Poti
less Nylander's dump

I said the original offer was close but ask yourself if you think that offer is fair. I doubt you can get a team to take Nylander's salary dump for a prospect similar to Chorney and a 3rd round pick so i don't see this sub in/exchange from the original offer as being fair. Poti, without a doubt, has positive value and during the PLAYOFFs, he was probably the best dmans on the capitals (or at least one of the better ones).

Quote:
Originally Posted by belair View Post
Hence moving vets for vets...Simple asset management.

The proposal is set to the rumour that Washington is in the market for a PP QB. From my perspective the 2010/11 part of the deal is beneficial to the Caps as they fulfill that particular need without adding any salary. They lose out salary wise in 2011/12, but they are compensated with two decent assets in Chorney and the 3rd round pick.

Obviously my perspective isn't clearly in the Caps' favour...But if that particular rumour has any merit, is the compensation for the salary increase in 11/12 fair?
Here's the thing... the caps are supposely on the market to ADD a PP dman/QB. Doesn't mean they want to trade away another dman (even if that dman isn't a PP dman). Seriously, they were likely on the market when Souray was on waivers so if they wanted Souray as the point man, they would have taken him off waivers. Souray has negative value, that's pretty much a fact. His value cannot realistically go up until training camp (when a team becomes desperate) or sometime during the season (if he plays and plays well). Poti led the capitals last year in terms of SH time and realistically is an important part of their team. So by trading him away, the capitals honestly do NOT fill their need of a dman.

Realistically, i think Erskine or Sloan are the 2 dmans that the caps are willing to trade away in a deal involving a top 4 PMD/PP QB... not the other 5 (Alzner = questionable but i get the sense the caps aren't looking to move him either).

As for the rumor... most of the rumors by Eklund just try to get people to go to his site. You see crazy rumors from him all the time about big market teams/big fan base. So targeting Was/Edm makes a lot of sense. I doubt the caps have any interest in Souray right now. They realistically need cap space next year to resign Varlamov, find a replacement for Semin, resign whoever else they want (i.e. Poti, Knuble, Alzner, etc)

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07-24-2010, 07:42 AM
  #18
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The Caps need a clear the crease, defensive D-man. Souray would be a nice luxury (in an un-salary-cap world), but it isn't the primary need.

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07-24-2010, 07:45 AM
  #19
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I know there's rumors of WAS wanting Souray, but we'd have to give up more for them to take him.

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07-24-2010, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belair View Post
Edited to attempt to avoid an early thread demise...

If the Caps were in the market for a PP-QB .........
The first answer you have to provide is to this question above. The Caps have Mike Green and Alex Ovechkin on the points. Green is the PP QB.

Why do the Caps want/need another player to watch them play?

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07-24-2010, 07:54 AM
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Fallschirmyager
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belair View Post
Hence moving vets for vets...Simple asset management.

The proposal is set to the rumour that Washington is in the market for a PP QB. From my perspective the 2010/11 part of the deal is beneficial to the Caps as they fulfill that particular need without adding any salary. They lose out salary wise in 2011/12, but they are compensated with two decent assets in Chorney and the 3rd round pick.

Obviously my perspective isn't clearly in the Caps' favour...But if that particular rumour has any merit, is the compensation for the salary increase in 11/12 fair?
I understand your points but trading for souray creates problems that GMGM doesn't want. I can't speak to the compensation level as I don't know much about the Oilers add ins but the bottom line still centers around the extra year of 5+ mil. GMGM made no play for the UFA dmen that most CAPS fans think would fill the stay at home guy crease clearing dman we desperately need and they wouldn't cost us anything. It's less about souray and more about that extra year salary that would slow this down. Plus the fact that he has to clear waivers and again anyone can have him at half price.

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07-24-2010, 07:56 AM
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I know there's rumors of WAS wanting Souray, but we'd have to give up more for them to take him.
Being realistic rumors never come out McPhee group. It seems that rumors of a McPhee deal coming out of the other team's office would kill any deal on the table.

I would suspect that any rumors of the Capitals interest in Sourey come from the agent trying to stir the pot. I doubt the Caps have any interest in that player or his contract.

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07-24-2010, 08:01 AM
  #23
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This makes a lot of sense, assuming Washington could use a guy like Souray, which they might. I mean, how good is their PP when Green is off the ice?
assuming washington could use a guy like souray...but that is where it makes no sense.

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07-24-2010, 08:08 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by belair View Post
Hence moving vets for vets...Simple asset management.

The proposal is set to the rumour that Washington is in the market for a PP QB.
last one....Poti is the only Caps veteran defense. He leads the team in PK minutes.
So, if its vet for vet are you suggesting Souray become the cornerstone of a PK?

Before you believe a rumor, ask yourself if it makes any sense at all.

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07-24-2010, 08:20 AM
  #25
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just a brutal trade for Washington.

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