Of course, many things can and will happen in the next couple of years. There is an obvious need in D but all in all, with the addition of Eller, Avtsin and Palushaj, this bunch doesn't look too bad. And this is why I wouldn't change roster with TB.
I hope our 5 million dollar center doesnt turn into a third liner hehe. I like our forward crop too. Got a nice mix of size,grit and skill. Timmins looks like he just keeps restocking the prospect pool for us.
2012-2013 might be a bit early for Naatinen, Tinordi (it will be awesome if he makes it in two years) and Bennet. As well, Quailer has some catching up to do but I hope he does catch up.
I'm not sure I'm sold on our tough-guy wingers Conboy and Schultz. I hope they make it but I'd keep looking if I were Timmins.
I wouldn't exclude Dumont from the mix just yet. He's such an in-your-face type of player that I'd love to see him make it as a fourth-line center, flanked by two tough guys.
Down the road, projecting Eller, Leblanc, Naatinen and Dumont all playing center is quite an intriguing mix.
Next July will be very interesting for us. We'll have a lot of money to spend.
I'm hoping we can lock up Markov for 8 years to a similar deal Savard got (4M cap, maybe as high as 4.5).... And it would be real nice if Chara hit UFA and we could take a stab at him.
I'm hoping we can lock up Markov for 8 years to a similar deal Savard got (4M cap, maybe as high as 4.5).... And it would be real nice if Chara hit UFA and we could take a stab at him.
Well, that's my hope. We'll have plenty of $ for him as our D will cost next to nothing. If he hits the market, I wouldn't be surprised if he ends-up here. Wouldn't be surprised if Bettman blocked the signing cuz it would make the Habs D formidable. A top 3 of Subban, Markov and Chara under 13 mil per for all 3!
Players more than likely retained and re-signed; Boyd, Pyatt, Markov and Gorges.
Players on the bubble; Kostitsyn, Pouliot, Lapierre and O'Byrne.
Players on their way out; Darche, Hamrlik and Gill.
Markov will probably be a 5 year $30 million, $6 million dollar per cap hit.
Gorges will probably be a 3 year $7 million, $2 million, $2 million, $3 million per cap hit.
Boyd depending on his season could be a one year typical 3-4 line signing at $850,000.
Pyatt depending on his season could be a one year typical 3-4 line signing at $850,000.
That would be about $10 million dedicated to 4 players. That leaves $13,691,667 for bubble players Kostitsyn, Pouliot, Lapierre and O'Byrne. It also would have to be divided up on the 3 players Montreal would look to replace in Darche, Hamrlik, Gill and Auld.
Montreal would also have to be cap conscious for the year afterwards as Eller and Subban would be RFA's, and we are unaware of the cap hit Price will take and what length.
Money is there, but needs to be spent responsibly. Hopefully some AHLers graduate in the roles needing replacement saving us space, and it would be ideal if AK does well and we can trade him for a valuable piece.
This is a make or break year for the ones mentioned on the bubble.
Players more than likely retained and re-signed; Boyd, Pyatt, Markov and Gorges.
Players on the bubble; Kostitsyn, Pouliot, Lapierre and O'Byrne.
Players on their way out; Darche, Hamrlik and Gill.
Markov will probably be a 5 year $30 million, $6 million dollar per cap hit.
Gorges will probably be a 3 year $7 million, $2 million, $2 million, $3 million per cap hit.
Boyd depending on his season could be a one year typical 3-4 line signing at $850,000.
Pyatt depending on his season could be a one year typical 3-4 line signing at $850,000.
That would be about $10 million dedicated to 4 players. That leaves $13,691,667 for bubble players Kostitsyn, Pouliot, Lapierre and O'Byrne. It also would have to be divided up on the 3 players Montreal would look to replace in Darche, Hamrlik, Gill and Auld.
Montreal would also have to be cap conscious for the year afterwards as Eller and Subban would be RFA's, and we are unaware of the cap hit Price will take and what length.
Money is there, but needs to be spent responsibly. Hopefully some AHLers graduate in the roles needing replacement saving us space, and it would be ideal if AK does well and we can trade him for a valuable piece.
This is a make or break year for the ones mentioned on the bubble.
Yeah, like I didn't know anything of that.
If you have a chance to sign Chara, you go for it.
I've spent some time doing multiple results of what could happen on a spreadsheet. Unless all 3 of Pouliot, Price and Eller make it above 2 mil, then we'd have less space. It all depends on what Eller, Pouliot, AK and Price will do, and what Price's next contract will look like.
IF we get Chara, Spacek might be traded too. One year at 3,8mil on a growing cap won't be hard to trade (IF THE WILL IS THERE TO TRADE HIM, that's for you Habsjunkie2).
The cap will probably also go up another 2,5-5%. That means 1,5 to 3 mil of free space. Unless there's an economic crisis, I don't see how this can't happen. Attendance are always up.
With so many players getting signed next season, I don't worry about Subban's cap the year after, as we won't have many contracts to sign, mostly RFAs, and the rise in cap will be plenty for that, and by then, a guy like Gomez will become available on the trade market and will a big attraction for teams who have a hard time to reach the cap floor.
If you have a chance to sign Chara, you go for it.
I've spent some time doing multiple results of what could happen on a spreadsheet. Unless all 3 of Pouliot, Price and Eller make it above 2 mil, then we'd have less space. It all depends on what Eller, Pouliot, AK and Price will do, and what Price's next contract will look like.
IF we get Chara, Spacek might be traded too. One year at 3,8mil on a growing cap won't be hard to trade (IF THE WILL IS THERE TO TRADE HIM, that's for you Habsjunkie2).
The cap will probably also go up another 2,5-5%. That means 1,5 to 3 mil of free space. Unless there's an economic crisis, I don't see how this can't happen. Attendance are always up.
With so many players getting signed next season, I don't worry about Subban's cap the year after, as we won't have many contracts to sign, mostly RFAs, and the rise in cap will be plenty for that, and by then, a guy like Gomez will become available on the trade market and will a big attraction for teams who have a hard time to reach the cap floor.
Chara would be awesome! I will only believe it whe I see it, but WOW that would be great! Unfortunately, Boston as already started talks for an extension with him
Imagine in 2 years:
Markov-Chara
Tinordi-Subban
I have my eyes set on Backes Bye bye Andre and in Backes at $5M, only a 1.75M cost increase.
I'm hoping we can lock up Markov for 8 years to a similar deal Savard got (4M cap, maybe as high as 4.5).... And it would be real nice if Chara hit UFA and we could take a stab at him.
Not sure how the Bruins will handle their present situation but they'll definitely be in a position to re-sign Chara, with Sturm ($3.5M) and Ryder ($4M) turning UFA also.
a guy like Gomez will become available on the trade market and will a big attraction for teams who have a hard time to reach the cap floor.
Teams aren't having problems hitting the floor anymore. The only team last year close to the floor was the NYI and they won't be there much longer. It was partially induced by the dragging of the light house project and their desire to rebuild. Most poorer teams are now in the mid range of the cap.
There won't be a huge market for Gomez. People need to accept that he is what he is and his cap hit is his cap hit.
Teams aren't having problems hitting the floor anymore. The only team last year close to the floor was the NYI and they won't be there much longer. It was partially induced by the dragging of the light house project and their desire to rebuild. Most poorer teams are now in the mid range of the cap.
There won't be a huge market for Gomez. People need to accept that he is what he is and his cap hit is his cap hit.
Actually, in 2 years, when he will be 33 years old with 2 years left on his contract at 7.3M cap hit BUT 5.5M and 4.5M as real salary paid, he could become an interesting option for teams needing a good center with cap room.
They don't care for the 7.3M cap hit, they don't spend to the max anyways, and they only physically pay is real salary of 5.5 and 4.5, an average of 5M over 2 years for a 33 years old Gomez. Not the bargain of the decade, but an interesting deal for some teams looking for a center.
And Eller could be ready for top 2 line duties by then and Leblanc for 3rd line.
Guess you are a bit too confident about the group of forwards we have. I guess you would have place Maxwell as our no.1 for the 09-10 season 3 years ago.
The thruth is that they won't all make it to the NHL, and most importantly, they won't be good enough for the role we expect them to take. For instance, Avstin will need to score at least 20 goals a year to stay on an NHL roster while Lapierre only needs 5.
As for placing our no.1 centerman on the third line, I don't know what to say about it really. Anyway, in three years, at least 25% of these players will be part of other oraganizations... specially Weber and/or Carle.
Guess you are a bit too confident about the group of forwards we have. I guess you would have place Maxwell as our no.1 for the 09-10 season 3 years ago.
The thruth is that they won't all make it to the NHL, and most importantly, they won't be good enough for the role we expect them to take. For instance, Avstin will need to score at least 20 goals a year to stay on an NHL roster while Lapierre only needs 5.
As for placing our no.1 centerman on the third line, I don't know what to say about it really. Anyway, in three years, at least 25% of these players will be part of other oraganizations... specially Weber and/or Carle.
Obviously, I can't predict the future which is why I said many things will change. Some won't be there, others will be added. But I don't get your example of Avtsin vs Lapierre. Avtsin is top 6 potential whereas Laps is a checker on the bottom 6. Obviously Avtsin will get plenty of scoring opportunities playing on the top 6, unlike Lapierre.
As for the lines, obviously the intention wasn't to make an actual line-up. There are 21 forwards in there: how can you make a line-up. That being said, I'd argue that Gomez is our #1 center, not Plekanec. And Eller becoming a better playmaker/producer than Plek in 2-3 years remains a possibility.
Actually, in 2 years, when he will be 33 years old with 2 years left on his contract at 7.3M cap hit BUT 5.5M and 4.5M as real salary paid, he could become an interesting option for teams needing a good center with cap room.
If I was a GM, I wouldn't sign a 33 yr old Gomez to a 2yr contract worth $10m. Pleks just signed for $5m / yr and he is younger and just hitting his upside. In 2 yrs, $5m will be an overpayment for Gomez imo when there are other younger UFA's that would be available.
I don't see Gomez going anywhere. He'll play out his contract here in Montreal in all very likelihood.
If I was a GM, I wouldn't sign a 33 yr old Gomez to a 2yr contract worth $10m. Pleks just signed for $5m / yr and he is younger and just hitting his upside. In 2 yrs, $5m will be an overpayment for Gomez imo when there are other younger UFA's that would be available.
I don't see Gomez going anywhere. He'll play out his contract here in Montreal in all very likelihood.
I'm not saying he will be traded for sure and I would not be surprised either if he stays here for the remaining 4 years of his contract, but trading him would be possible.
Marc Savard is 33 (with a concussion) with a way worse contract and is getting some interest. Arnott at 36 just got traded. Centers are a very rare commodity in this league and I'm pretty sure that some teams would have interest in a 33 year old Gomez for 10M over 2 years. 33 is NOT that old and its only for 2 years. You don't see Gomez as the best option, but sometimes options are rare and you get what you can (like Gainey getting Gomez and his contract). Also, don't forget the cap going up another 2-3M per year, thus making a 5M Gomez an interesting acquisition for some teams.
Just saying he will be tradable in 2 years (not necessarly traded).
If I was a GM, I wouldn't sign a 33 yr old Gomez to a 2yr contract worth $10m. Pleks just signed for $5m / yr and he is younger and just hitting his upside. In 2 yrs, $5m will be an overpayment for Gomez imo when there are other younger UFA's that would be available.
I don't see Gomez going anywhere. He'll play out his contract here in Montreal in all very likelihood.
He may play out his contract, but he will be tradeable. You aren't a GM, and some teams HAVE a hard time filling the cap floor. Some have a hard tim to fill their roster with proper talent. Some teams only have ONE good center. Some have only ONE second line center.
You do realize that as the cap goes up, so does the max salary for a single player, making 5 mil LESS of an overpayment with time, not the opposite.
Also, you fail to realize that teams with financial problems who get revenue sharings, will get more revenue sharing if they spend on the cap, hence why they would want Gomez.
You also ONLY compare Plex's contract to Gomez, but you fail to acknowledge that he was signed at a hometown discount, and that there are much older centers than 33 years that make close to 5 mil.
In two years from now, you'll be able to have 13 players at 5 million on a 65 mil cap (just an example of the "size" of a 5 mil contract). When the cap was at 50 mil, not so long ago, it was 10 players at 5 million.
Right now, as we speak, there are still 5 teams under the floor of 43,4. OF those 5, Atlanta, Colorado and Long Island are all 5+ mil under the floor. Long Island, contrarily to your delusion, is still having a hard time to get revenues and doesn't spend on the cap, and the ongoing process of having more revenues won't get fixed in a single season. Long Island is 6,6 mil under the cap floor.
It's so friggin funny, it's as if your inventing this stuff from the top of your head just so it fits your view of the Gomez contract. Teams still have a hard time to reach the floor, same as it was in the years before and it won't get better unless the league puts a better revenue sharing in place. The cap floor will keep going up, and teams will keep having a harder time reaching it, whether you want to stand blind at this reality or not.
Last edited by Ozymandias: 07-25-2010 at 12:21 PM.
If I was a GM, I wouldn't sign a 33 yr old Gomez to a 2yr contract worth $10m. Pleks just signed for $5m / yr and he is younger and just hitting his upside. In 2 yrs, $5m will be an overpayment for Gomez imo when there are other younger UFA's that would be available.
I don't see Gomez going anywhere. He'll play out his contract here in Montreal in all very likelihood.
Also, you fail to realize, that since you are not GM, you should take examples from other GMs. Kovalev was signed at 5 mil per for two years, and was 35-36 when he did so.
You are not GM. True GMs do sign those contracts, because they have needs to fill, and guys like Kovalev and Gomez, while not being the top players in the league, are still way above average in the NHL and you need those to fill your lineup.
This league's movements is predicated by NEEDS. You can't understand the situation if you don't understand the motives. You go at by the simplistic and idiotic "if I were GM"... well that doesn't dictate your NEEDS as GM. You're only taking it at face value.
He may play out his contract, but he will be tradeable.
I never said he would be untradable. He's even tradeable right now. Its just not realistic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias
You aren't a GM
I'm not? Thanks for telling me, I didn't realize that.
Seriously Captain Obvious, where did I say I was?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias
and some teams HAVE a hard time filling the cap floor. Some have a hard tim to fill their roster with proper talent.
Can you name 4 teams that had a hard time hitting the cap floor last year? There isn't as many as you make it out to be. Almost every team has cap space right now because they are not done filling out there rosters. I doubt there will be 3 teams within $2m of the cap floor when the season starts.
Do you think there will be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias
Some teams only have ONE good center. Some have only ONE second line center.
I agree. However in 2 years time, Gomez will be a good second line centre. If a team is wanting him to be their first line centre, that team is in serious trouble imo. Also I think paying a 2nd line centre $5m is a mistake but thats just me. I know teams do it. But teams that win the Stanley Cup generally don't. They start having depth issues if you pay a 2nd line centre $5m.
Look at Pittsburg, now that they are paying Malkin more than $5m, they have depth issues. They won the cup before they had to pay him that kind of money. No team in recent history has won the cup paying their 2nd line centre $5m or more while having a 1st line centre making just as much or more.
Teams that do, obviously don't win. So you can choose to argue for that model all you want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias
You also ONLY compare Plex's contract to Gomez, but you fail to acknowledge that he was signed at a hometown discount, and that there are much older centers than 33 years that make close to 5 mil.
Who are these old centres that make $5+ million? I honestly don't even know of 1 centre that is over 33 that makes more than $5m other than Chris Drury. I think that is probably the worst contract in the league.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias
It's so friggin funny, it's as if your inventing this stuff from the top of your head just so it fits your view of the Gomez contract.
So tell me what exactly have I made up? I haven't made anything up. All my points are valid. I'd like to seriously try to prove me wrong with facts. I highly doubt you can do it.
I don't know, Desjardins might not even be here next summer since he can go wherever he wants to if he doesn't get playing time with the Habs this season.
Chara is going to 34 and is going to be looking for his last contract, expect to see a Pronger like contract. Don't think I want to see that. 7 years, $35 million with a no movement clause till he us 42 is something PG will want to stay clear off.
Next year there will be 3 top end forwards as UFA's, Backes, Bergeron and Semin. Plus the D depth is nice next year too with the likes of Kaberle, Hannan, Bieksa, Pitkanen, Phillips, Rivet, Ehrhoff, Greene along with Chara and our own Markov.
I think I would rather offer sheet a DMan like Doughty or Seabrook than sign Chara.
There are a lot of good potential RFA offer sheets next year. Philly could be this years Hawks with no cap space for players like Carter and Giroux. Other high notables if not re-signed during the 2010-2011 season are Stamkos, Parise (Devils in trouble with Kovalchuk if he gets contract), and goalies Jonathan Bernier and Steve Mason are available too. Depending on the goalies seasons next year, some teams may take a shot at them.
I don't know, Desjardins might not even be here next summer since he can go wherever he wants to if he doesn't get playing time with the Habs this season.
Only option he has is via KHL like Trotter. He is a RFA and would be ours still.
Chara is going to 34 and is going to be looking for his last contract, expect to see a Pronger like contract. Don't think I want to see that. 7 years, $35 million with a no movement clause till he us 42 is something PG will want to stay clear off.
Next year there will be 3 top end forwards as UFA's, Backes, Bergeron and Semin. Plus the D depth is nice next year too with the likes of Kaberle, Hannan, Bieksa, Pitkanen, Phillips, Rivet, Ehrhoff, Greene along with Chara and our own Markov.
I think I would rather offer sheet a DMan like Doughty or Seabrook than sign Chara.
There are a lot of good potential RFA offer sheets next year. Philly could be this years Hawks with no cap space for players like Carter and Giroux. Other high notables if not re-signed during the 2010-2011 season are Stamkos, Parise (Devils in trouble with Kovalchuk if he gets contract), and goalies Jonathan Bernier and Steve Mason are available too. Depending on the goalies seasons next year, some teams may take a shot at them.
You're concluding all this based on a speculation that Chara would want a similar contract to Pronger. AND, let's not forget that if Chara wants that type of contract, it won't be as bad as Pronger, because he will be 34 when he starts his contract, meaning he will be able to retire without the cap hit counting.
So yeah, if you have a change to sign Chara, you do it, even front-loaded, as he isn't in the same UFA category than Pronger was when he signed his extention (the extention started at age 35, so if he retires, the cap hit counts).
I'd prefer signing Chara than loosing assets on an RFA offersheet.
I do agree that Chara is not the only solution, we could easily go for a double signing of Kaberle or Ehrhoff, and Semin or Backes.
Point is, Habs will have their future in their hands and the money to spend to make the roster more complete.
Habs have in double the type of player I consider the most important and one of the hardest to get in this league, we jsut have to look at the overpayment for Dmen to realize this. With Subban and Markov well in hand, and the low cost of these top Dmen, the rest can be done much more easily.
I never said he would be untradable. He's even tradeable right now. Its just not realistic.
im curious, are you arguing a team wont (realistically) make a "hockey trade" (assets for assets) or a trade period (player in a salary dump type trade)? I could see a team like columbus making a trade of some sort to bring in a guy like gomez in to a) add a good playmaker to their stable b) bring in a vet who will help with the kids they have, etc. they may not make a "hockey trade" that explicitly helps the habs but a team like that will make a trade none the less IMO.
Bye bye Andre and in Backes at $5M, only a 1.75M cost increase.
