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2010/11 Calgary Flames - Not as bad as everyone thinks?

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Old
07-26-2010, 10:53 PM
  #26
flames123
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Glenncross or Moss?

Obviusly everyone will be in favour of keeping Glencross, but Moss will be a hard move and I think he could even clear waivers. Given he had a tough injury season. I wouldn't be overly upset to see him go as he is a 3rd line plug imo.

But who will end up going? Hopefully Moss.

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07-26-2010, 11:41 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by maverick9 View Post
the bizzaro world of only missing the playoffs once since 03/04 yes we haven't one a round since that year either but some of this, no most of this must fall on the players. i like our team coming into this year and i don't think ds is done yet. there is a couple deals i don't agree with but i am still firmly in the "in darryl i trust" camp. we will challenge for the div. go flames go
I hope your right and I trust in sutter too but what makes you think with almost an identical team that missed the playoffs last year is gonna challenge for the division? Sure you can expect guys to have better years but like I mentioned above not all will espescially jokinen. But one thing that bewilders me about sutter is how can you expect the line of tanguay-jokinen-iginla to carry our offense. Tanguay I believe can definitely improve but Darryl sutter can't expect him to be dishing passes every game to jokinen and iginla because if I remember last time he was here before he left is that he has trouble because all he did was look pass first and teams will catch on to that and he's soft. Jokinen to me, hasn't shown anything after he left Calgary to show he will become a different player then last year. Also last year he was given more then a chance to play with iginla and play well and he didn't. More must be done to make this team contend with the Canucks for the division. I hope we can trade of guys like moss, sarich and maybe some other guys for a top tier centerman and a few depth scorers.

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07-26-2010, 11:49 PM
  #28
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"In Darryl I trust" is tired 03/04 euphoria that needs to die. Get a grip and have a critical thought once in a while

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07-26-2010, 11:56 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by saillias View Post
"In Darryl I trust" is tired 03/04 euphoria that needs to die. Get a grip and have a critical thought once in a while
What are we supposed to think, " fire sutter let's get rid of this guy as soon as possible because he's only helped us make the playoffs every year except last". Good idea tell me how chirping and demanding sutter get fired goes for you. He's one of the best hms in the NHL.

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07-27-2010, 12:13 AM
  #30
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the flames are a team people love to hate. ecspecially the vancouver "best team in the nhl even though we've never acomplished anything" canucks and the edmonton "plan the parade cause we have taylor hall" oilers.

the flames are a better team on paper this year. and sutter is a good gm. he had a good run at the beginning of his tenure and has since fallen from the ranks of the top tire in the league, but hes still fine. hey, i remember when the flames didnt do anything in the market but lose players. its nice to see a guy thats not afraid to make some noice

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07-27-2010, 12:29 AM
  #31
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I've been saying Sutter should be fired for quite a while now... but I don't think his trades or signings were that bad... with the exception of the Jokinen/Kotalik deal... but even that one made some sense if you look at it as a shake up where he was also trying to get a PP QB cause our PP was crap

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07-27-2010, 12:48 AM
  #32
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the flames are a team people love to hate.


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07-27-2010, 12:57 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
I've been saying Sutter should be fired for quite a while now... but I don't think his trades or signings were that bad... with the exception of the Jokinen/Kotalik deal... but even that one made some sense if you look at it as a shake up where he was also trying to get a PP QB cause our PP was crap
So you like Sutters trades and signings but you want him fired?

Why, specifically?

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07-27-2010, 01:00 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by flames123 View Post
So you like Sutters trades and signings but you want him fired?

Why, specifically?
I wanted Sutter fired before those trades... I want him fired because I am tired of mediocrity... I am sick of losing in round 1 year after year... he is a decent GM... he can make a poor team competitive... but he is not a GM that can push a good team over the top

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07-27-2010, 03:56 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
I wanted Sutter fired before those trades... I want him fired because I am tired of mediocrity... I am sick of losing in round 1 year after year... he is a decent GM... he can make a poor team competitive... but he is not a GM that can push a good team over the top
But who's out there that's better? I think there's a lot of factors to the team losing in the first round, and it's not like we were getting wiped out in those series. '06 and '08 both went to 7 and could've gone either way. Certainly these results were frustrating but I don't think they warrant firing the GM. During those years I can't think of anything I would have done better as GM, so I wouldn't honestly be able to say I would have supported firing him. Can't just look at the results imo.

But of course now things are different, having missed the playoffs and having made some questionable moves, Sutter has this year to get it right or he's done.

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07-27-2010, 04:38 PM
  #36
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But who's out there that's better? I think there's a lot of factors to the team losing in the first round, and it's not like we were getting wiped out in those series. '06 and '08 both went to 7 and could've gone either way. Certainly these results were frustrating but I don't think they warrant firing the GM. During those years I can't think of anything I would have done better as GM, so I wouldn't honestly be able to say I would have supported firing him. Can't just look at the results imo.

But of course now things are different, having missed the playoffs and having made some questionable moves, Sutter has this year to get it right or he's done.
sometimes you have to risk falling back to take that step forward... you can't just hold steady because it might not work

and you can just look at results... this is a results based business

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07-27-2010, 05:20 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
I wanted Sutter fired before those trades... I want him fired because I am tired of mediocrity... I am sick of losing in round 1 year after year... he is a decent GM... he can make a poor team competitive... but he is not a GM that can push a good team over the top
+1 to that. I do not think DS is the worst GM in the NHL, not at all. I just think if since that fairy tale run the team has been spinning in ruts that seem to get deeper every year. Change is not a bad word.

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07-30-2010, 02:04 PM
  #38
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i think the flames will be better than most seem to be forecasting
look for JBo to have a big bounceback year and Kipper's only 33 right? Far from washed up..

I do have a Q Im hoping you all can help with -- I own both Stajan and Jokinen in my fantasy league and can't keep both. Who would you dump?

Olli seems most attractive as he's had big points before and looks to line up with Iggy & Tanguay ...but Stajan is younger (PIMs are not a factor in this league)

any thoughts appreciated,
cheers

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07-30-2010, 02:20 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
The internet; where men are men and girls are FBI agents. It is also where you find many comments and opinions, and lately many of these comments and opinions related to the Calgary Flames upcoming season can be summed up as "TEH FLAMEZ R TEH SUCKZORS LOL!!!" (translated as: The Flames are a bad team and will finish in the bottom 10 in the NHL this upcoming season.)

I take exception to this statement, and to this prediction in general. I do not think the Flames are as bad as perceived by Joe Internet or Sally Media, who were predicting the Flames to be a bona-fide Stanley Cup contender as early as one year ago. Not only do I refute these claims, but it's my opinion that they have actually improved from last season's edition.

Line 1
2009/10 Version
_____ - Jokinen - Iginla
The blank is left there intentionally. No less than 11 different skaters were lined up alongside Jokinen and Iginla that season. Prust, Nystrom, Boyd, Moss, Bourque, Glencross, Hagman, Dawes, Lundmark, Jaffray, and Backlund. Before being traded to the Rangers, Jokinen hit over 15 posts with the Flames - I know this to be reasonably close because after he was seemingly hitting the post every 2nd game starting in December, I started counting. If half of those go in instead of right back out, he has signing him for $3 million is a pretty good contract for 20+ goals and 50+ points.

2010/11 Version
Tanguay - Jokinen - Iginla
Okay, so now there's finally a full time LW on the line in Tanguay (he's apparently been promised top line minutes) Ironically this line also costs less from a cap hit perspective than the combined cap hits of Jokinen & Iginla last season. Having someone like Tanguay is important as a puck distributor which the team sorely lacked; hopefully he's not looking to pass 100% of the time though.
STEWIE'S VERDICT: Top line has slightly improved, but more importantly cap space is cleared to allow improvements in other areas.

Line 2
2009/10 Version

Dawes - Langkow - Bourque
This group started the season on a relative hot streak, despite having a league worst -15 by the end of October. Bourque played well enough to receive quiet consideration for Team Canada at the Olympics around mid-November, however by the time the team was named the Flames (including Bourque) were in a tailspin. Langkow has taken a step back, and there was quiet wondering if he was still suffering as a result of injuries to his hands from late last season.

2010/11 Version
Hagman - Stajan - Bourque
The dreaded word "potential" is a key disclaimer here. Stajan is a perennial 15 goal / 50 point centre, and he's flanked by wingers capable of 25-30 goals. (Hagman netted 25 last season, Bourque had 27) Provided Bourque doesn't have another freak injury (no he's not injury prone, just unlucky) I see no reason for any of the numbers posted in previous seasons to regress. Bourque & Stajan are also reasonably responsible defensively, and will likely form the nucleus of the PK. I am not predicting this, but it would not surprise me to see career seasons from Stajan & Bourque.

STEWIE'S VERDICT: Significant improvement over last season's offering.

Line 3
2009/10 Version

Glencross - Conroy - Moss
I love this line; I know many people didn't though. As a third line, it's possible that it could have been rated top ten in the league; but it's quite apparent that Conroy lost a step and though he was the most reliable centre in the faceoff circle last season for the Flames, the name of the game in the "New NHL" (yes I still call it that) is speed. Not to mention that the team's trouble offensively led to him being misused on the top line, causing a bit of an undeserved backlash with the fans.

2010/11 Version
Glencross - Backlund - Moss
Depending on his development, and how it has progressed this offseason, it would be ideal to see Backlund on the 2nd line in a more offensive role. For now, I have him pencilled in on this line. Other than that, there is no change on the wings; 10-15 or so goals from each member of this line should be expected.

STEWIE'S VERDICT: Ultimately... the only change is this line got younger and a little bit faster. For me, that's an upgrade.

Line 4
2009/10 Version

Nystrom - Boyd - Sjostrom/Prust/McGrattan
Poor Dustin Boyd. Buried on the 4th line even though he is expected to produce offensively is the lament of many Flames fans... Well yeah that, and not to get knocked off the puck by a stiff breeze. He was good; just not good enough. Loved Nystrom and Prust though; great personalities and would go through a wall if asked. Unfortunately, Nystrom was a cap casualty, and after being involved with three trades involving the Flames in the span of a year, I have a feeling he won't be back without a NMC.

2010/11 Version
Jackman - Sutter - Stone / Ivanans
Meh? I hear good things about the new acquisitions, and I've pencilled in Sutter as the centre, but if one of the prospects can make the team out of camp, this is where they'll end up.

STEWIE'S VERDICT: Probably the biggest downgrade is this line. If the 7-8 minute/night 4th line is the one that is the make it or break it for the team, they have bigger problems IMO. Frankly all I can ask is they not be a liability while on the ice.

Omitted:
Daymond Langkow, who is still recovering from a severe spinal cord injury. His future is currently unknown.
Ales Kotalik, who might be waived and end up playing in either Calgary, Abbotsford or Europe next season.

Defense:
2009/10 Version

Regehr / Phaneuf
Bouwmeester / Giordano
Sarich / Johnson
Kronwall / Pardy

2010/11 Version
Bouwmeester / Giordano
Regehr / White
Sarich / Staios
Pardy / Kronwall

Obviously the biggest change came with the Phaneuf trade mid-season last year. Quiet rumblings of locker room discontent have come to the surface, many of which are pretty far-fetched. Accusations of lacklustre defensive play, coupled with a lack of scoring had many fans also wanting to see Phaneuf traded. His replacement in Ian White, while a downgrade overall (due more to potential) brought a similar point total to the table, and an awesome mustache. Player for player, this is a downgrade, but strictly looking at White's offensive output from last season vs. Phaneuf's offensive output from the last two seasons, it's a wash. The only major downgrade is defensive play and physicality, which Phaneuf didn't really care to show a lot of in his last days with the Flames.

Staios was probably the strangest trade made by Darryl Sutter last season; however Staios is an upgrade over Pardy. Hell, Johnson was an upgrade over Pardy.

STEWIE'S VERDICT: Slightly worse off; but it's a position of depth and strength. I don't think the defensive corps is completely set for the upcoming season, and if guys like Pelech or Negrin have a good showing in training camp, there could be a few moves made here as well.

Goal:
Only significant change is replacing the backup netminder, and it seems that it is Henrik Karlsson's job to lose. It is quite obvious that the Flames could not get it together (mentally) to play decent in front of McElhinney, they played fine in front of his midseason replacement. If that can continue with whoever the backup goalie winds up being, it will be an improvement from last season - because whenever McElhinney started, it was sadly a guaranteed loss.

STEWIE'S VERDICT: I'm optimistic, but until shown otherwise this is a sideways move at best, potentially a downgrade. There are other NHL proven backup goalies out there that could have been picked up for a similar contract (and without giving an asset). Worse case scenario is Kipper is worked like a rented mule (again) and with a star goalie in the mix, anything is possible.

OVERALL
A lot of players on the returning roster had bad seasons in 2009/10. I am optimistic that there will be rebounds of Iginla and Bouwmeester, and to a lesser extent Jokinen and Tanguay (although I hedge that statement with the fact they'll likely perform to salary expectations). Using the word "expectation" is also important to note. Nobody is expecting the Flames to succeed in 2010/11; most are predicting a low conference finish or outside of the playoffs. I think this ultimately takes off some of the pressure from the players allowing them to concentrate more on the game at hand (not the next five, not the standings, etc.).
Excellent post some great points.

-Being a blogger I have to get more positive I am usually very negative nice to see some positive points.

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Old
07-30-2010, 02:21 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
sometimes you have to risk falling back to take that step forward... you can't just hold steady because it might not work

and you can just look at results... this is a results based business

Pretty much dead on.

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07-30-2010, 02:22 PM
  #41
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Obviusly everyone will be in favour of keeping Glencross, but Moss will be a hard move and I think he could even clear waivers. Given he had a tough injury season. I wouldn't be overly upset to see him go as he is a 3rd line plug imo.

But who will end up going? Hopefully Moss.
Obviously someone has to go with the White contract. I suspect the Flames would love to get rid of one of vets on defense. Let the young kids get into the line up.

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07-30-2010, 02:50 PM
  #42
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Obviously someone has to go with the White contract. I suspect the Flames would love to get rid of one of vets on defense. Let the young kids get into the line up.
I'd say its more of a "Kotalik will be shipped away and not on the payroll". Has Sutter even tried to implement the kids into a role? Maybe slot them in as an injury call-up but he is very stingy in using them in a serious role.

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07-30-2010, 02:54 PM
  #43
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I'd say its more of a "Kotalik will be shipped away and not on the payroll". Has Sutter even tried to implement the kids into a role? Maybe slot them in as an injury call-up but he is very stingy in using them in a serious role.
That is the main problem there this is a old boys clup as per say. The flames have a tendacy to hang on the Vets a little to long.

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07-30-2010, 03:00 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
i think the flames will be better than most seem to be forecasting
look for JBo to have a big bounceback year and Kipper's only 33 right? Far from washed up..

I do have a Q Im hoping you all can help with -- I own both Stajan and Jokinen in my fantasy league and can't keep both. Who would you dump?

Olli seems most attractive as he's had big points before and looks to line up with Iggy & Tanguay ...but Stajan is younger (PIMs are not a factor in this league)

any thoughts appreciated,
cheers
Jokinen has the highest point upside, playing with Tanguay and Iginla

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07-30-2010, 04:06 PM
  #45
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Agreed with Hakan, even in a disastrous season Jokinen scored almost as many points as Stajan, who had a career-best season.

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07-30-2010, 06:54 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
i think the flames will be better than most seem to be forecasting
look for JBo to have a big bounceback year and Kipper's only 33 right? Far from washed up..

I do have a Q Im hoping you all can help with -- I own both Stajan and Jokinen in my fantasy league and can't keep both. Who would you dump?

Olli seems most attractive as he's had big points before and looks to line up with Iggy & Tanguay ...but Stajan is younger (PIMs are not a factor in this league)

any thoughts appreciated,
cheers
It depends; I have the feeling both will see top minutes now and then. Bigger risk/reward possibility with Jokinen (and definitely take him if goals are worth more), but both should be relied on for 50 ish points.

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07-30-2010, 06:56 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
It depends; I have the feeling both will see top minutes now and then. Bigger risk/reward possibility with Jokinen (and definitely take him if goals are worth more), but both should be relied on for 50 ish points.
i think both will be around 55-60 points

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07-30-2010, 07:24 PM
  #48
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i think both will be around 55-60 points
Well I made the 2010-2011 flames in NHL10 and simmed the season and Jokienen had 98 points.... so....

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07-30-2010, 09:17 PM
  #49
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If everything goes right, yes we'll be fine. Tanguay returns to past form, and Jokinen cashes in instead of hitting all those posts like we said. Now d is not the problem. We have a very solid top 6 compared to most, which top to to bottom, is very coparable to anyone in the league. Hopefully kipper can keep it up, but offence is where we need it. On paper, we are much the same as last season. Gonna have Tanguay, but lose guys like Dawes and Kotalik. Backlund has lots of potential to shine, but it would be unwise to expect a huge performance out of him. Sure everyone plays to their top end potential up front and we'll be aces. unfortunately, i can see Jokinen much the same as last year, and we'll be desiring to have him out by christmas. I can see us making playoffs due to some teams getting weaker that were above us in the standings, but much more would be asking a little much i think. Fingers crossed though

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07-30-2010, 10:09 PM
  #50
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the bizzaro world of only missing the playoffs once since 03/04 yes we haven't one a round since that year either but some of this, no most of this must fall on the players. i like our team coming into this year and i don't think ds is done yet. there is a couple deals i don't agree with but i am still firmly in the "in darryl i trust" camp. we will challenge for the div. go flames go
I'd like to start off by saying im a leafs fan,dont worry i come in peace.Anyways ya i agree with u the fact tht calgary is decent/good team they get underappreciated here and get laughed at on these boards.I think u guys can make the playoffs but i personally cant c this team challenging for the division.To the guy who said the flames are a team people love to hate no im sorry but if u watch any hockey i think tht title goes to the leafs whether they do good or bad i mean some people cant even admit we have a bright future.W.e. and to the "in darryl i trust" im sorry but even most flames would laught at tht...like do i really have to explain.I wish the falmes goodluck and hope u guys surprise some haters

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