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2010/11 Calgary Flames - Not as bad as everyone thinks?

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Old
08-12-2010, 07:31 AM
  #101
redmile
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thoughts

we might have signed some questionable players, but we all know most of the players had a poor season last year, they don't have to play a career year, but if they improve from last and our defense is here to stay, there is no reason not to believe that this will be a decent team.

Every team, every year, we all go into the season with question marks, we got a few more this year, and it will be answered soon enough.

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08-14-2010, 10:54 PM
  #102
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I think and hope 2009-2010 was a low point for numerous players and a rebound can and will happen

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10-04-2010, 01:53 PM
  #103
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Well apparently ESPN still thinks the Flames are doomed and ranked at #25. Not even a (meaningless) 7-0 preseason is enough to change their minds.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/powerrankings

Quote:
25 Flames 0-0-0 Their perfect preseason might suggest I'm crazy for ranking them so low; but at this point, I just don't buy the Olli Jokinen experiment. I'm sure I won't get invited to too many Christmas parties in Calgary now.
Psst. Pierre. The experiment isn't Jokinen - they had him last year. The experiment is bringing back Tanguay.

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10-04-2010, 03:19 PM
  #104
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I think the Flames look better this season with White full season + Tanguay and possibly Brodie now on the PP.

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10-04-2010, 08:45 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
Well apparently ESPN still thinks the Flames are doomed and ranked at #25. Not even a (meaningless) 7-0 preseason is enough to change their minds.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/powerrankings



Psst. Pierre. The experiment isn't Jokinen - they had him last year. The experiment is bringing back Tanguay.
What a ****ing joke.

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10-04-2010, 09:03 PM
  #106
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I really can't see the Flames finishing any lower than second in the division. Once we get healthy, we will have a ton of depth with our forwards. I just think its funny, last year we had we less depth than now, Dawes was our big signing after losing Cammy and Bert. And alot of people picked us to win the division and be contenders, at least for teams in Canada. This year, our defence is better and deeper in IMO. And this is the best forward depth we have had since the 90's (thanks in large part to the Phaneuf trade), and some analysts are putting the Flames on the bubble of making the playoffs. It just goes to show that the analysts opinions really mean nothing. The only reason for the lack of respect has everything to do with missing the playoffs last year and nothing to do with our current roster.

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10-04-2010, 09:15 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
I really can't see the Flames finishing any lower than second in the division. Once we get healthy, we will have a ton of depth with our forwards. I just think its funny, last year we had we less depth than now, Dawes was our big signing after losing Cammy and Bert. And alot of people picked us to win the division and be contenders, at least for teams in Canada. This year, our defence is better and deeper in IMO. And this is the best forward depth we have had since the 90's (thanks in large part to the Phaneuf trade), and some analysts are putting the Flames on the bubble of making the playoffs. It just goes to show that the analysts opinions really mean nothing. The only reason for the lack of respect has everything to do with missing the playoffs last year and nothing to do with our current roster.
Agreed with this post. There are a few fans of other teams out there who have done their homework. Not many, but some:

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Originally Posted by quat View Post
As a Canucks fan, I really am surprised (or not actually...), that the Flames are being so readily dismissed. They've got a very competitive roster, and by all accounts should make the playoffs.

Just because they aren't flavour of the day, and it's fun to jump on the dog pile (as it were), I would be (pleasantly), shocked if they had another season like last year.

Iggy, Bourque, and Hagman should all put up decent numbers this season, and they've got good depth supporting those players in the top six. The bottom six is fairly rugged, yet can still move the puck.

I think a lot of Flames fans are going to be mocking people later in the year for dismissing them so quickly.

Also, due to their present injury situation, Morrison is an excellent, cost effective addition. Good move.

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10-05-2010, 12:04 AM
  #108
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I think people will be skeptical till they see an improvment.....

Lost
Dawes 14
Nystrom 11
Dion 10
Boyd 8
Higgins 8
Langkow 14 for arguement sake

thats 65 drop + you need about 30 more goals then nobody can talk about offensive balance(lack of )=95goals

conservatly add
White +10
Backlund 15
Tanguay 10
Hagman +20
Kotlik 8
Jokinen +5

thats about 68 extra goals ..still needing to pick up another 27 goals or those 30 goals.....which Iggy and Co will need to improve over last year....

I dont think anyone doubts how tough it wiill be to score goals.....but you will need to find another 30 goals and till people see the improvment they will put you in the good goaltending ,good defence dont score enough box.People dont see Tanguay scoring more than last year but see more goals from Iggy because of tanguay....and Jokinen - most people dont see a change.

I do think people are missing the boat on the better puck moving flow of your defensive core......which is considerably better than last year....full year of white,Brodie?,natural progression of Giordano + Jaybo finding his groove.A

The one area I thought you took a step back was losing Nystrom....but thats only one guy

and how good will Backlund be this year........good or better.And the flames have something to prove.......to me they are a wild card.....either a team in the big group of teams fighting for the 6th 7th and 8th spot or they find their scoring and are solid in the 4th 5th 6 th group........and you stay realitivly healthy from now on.

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10-05-2010, 01:02 AM
  #109
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To me, it looks more like this from the team that started the season last year:

Gone are -

Phaneuf
McElhinney
Boyd
Nystrom
Dawes
Sjostrom
Prust
McGrattan

Phaneuf replaced by White
McElhinney replaced by Karlsson
Dawes replaced by Tanguay
Nystrom replaced by Morrison
Boyd replaced by Backlund
Sjostrom replaced by Jackman
Prust replaced by Meyers
McGrattan replaced by Ivanans

With the exception of Phaneuf, all of the replacements appear to be a significant improvement. But then, you have to add more depth in Hagman, Kotalik, Brodie and Staios. And you have to add the intangible, being viewed as an under dog and being humiliated in the off-season. You can already see a significant improvement in the play of Iginla, Hagman, Kotalik and Regehr. Improved play may be the biggest key to the teams success this year.

It would also be worthy of note that the Phaneuf (being replaced by White) was not the all-star Phaneuf we had come to know. He may be a potential all-star but the Phaneuf that played in Calgary last year, wasn't and at that level, White is adequate.

I didn't assume Langkow won't be back because that remains to be seen. Even if he doesn't return, Langkow that played last year would not be an insurmountable loss.

Last year, it was just assumed you had an all-star cast of defenders and just adding Bouwmeester would make the team better. That proved to be a huge oversight. The team this year has left very little to chance.

They don't expect a rag-tag left side to hobble together a decent attack by adding Dawes. They don't expect a David Moss to score twenty goals. They aren't assuming a Boyd type is going to become a top six forward. Nothing appears to be left to chance and that is why you see them picking up a Morrison. If you can't perform this year, someone who is quite capable will be stepping into your spot.

This team has transformed so much over the last year, it is really quite amazing. The season is about to begin and I can hardly wait.

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Old
10-05-2010, 01:43 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by crazyforhockey View Post
The one area I thought you took a step back was losing Nystrom....but thats only one guy
Actually I think Tim Jackman fits this role exceptionally well, obviously they aren't exactly the same as Nystrom was a key penalty killer and is good for a few more points, but on the flip side Jackman is more irritating to the opposition, bigger and much more physical.

as for the improvement in goals it's so hard to say what will happen... but if you look at goal totals for last year with the current players (which is easier than trying to gauge lost vs gained IMO)

Forwards...

Backlund - 1 goal (23 games)
Bourque - 27 goals (73 games)
Conroy - 3 goals (63 games)
Glencross - 15 goals (67 games)
Hagman - 25 goals (82 games)
Iginla - 32 goals (82 games)
Ivanans - 0 goals (61 games)
Jackman - 4 goals (54 games)
Jokinen - 15 goals (82 games)
*Kotalik - 11 goals (71 games)
*Langkow - 14 goals (72 games)
Meyer - 0 goals (0 games) - played 4 NHL games in 07/08
Morrison - 12 goals (74 games)
*Moss - 8 goals (64 games)
*Stajan - 19 goals (82 games)
*Stone - 0 goals (27 games)
Sutter - 0 goals (10 games)
Tanguay - 10 goals (80 games)

Defensemen...

Bouwmeester - 3 goals (82 games)
Brodie - 0 goals (0 games) - no NHL games
Giordano - 11 goals (82 games)
*Pardy - 2 goals (57 games)
Regehr - 2 goals (81 games)
Sarich - 1 goal (57 games)
Staios - 1 goal (58 games)
White - 13 goals (83 games)

that is 182 goals in 995 games for forwards and 33 goals in 500 games for defensemen. If I pro-rate that to 984 games for forwards (12 forwards in 82 games) and defensemen to 492 games (6 defenseman in 82 games)... that leaves the Flames in the neighborhood of 180 goals for forwards and 32 goals for defensemen, or a total of 212 goals total. I excluded Langkow from the averages as I don't expect him to play this season.

last season the Flames scored 201 goals in total, while 212 isn't a significantly higher number it does leave room for even greater improvement if any players have bounce back seasons (Bouwmeester & Jokinen especially).

and yes I know my process is a bit different and is far from perfect, but I think it gives pretty close to a worst case scenario as I don't factor in any bounce backs or any offensive impact from Backlund, Brodie, Sutter or Meyer

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Old
10-29-2010, 02:55 PM
  #111
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Sure looked pretty bad last night. Maybe if Kipper plays it's an easy win over the Av's. I don't think you can really judge this team untill halfway through the season. hopefully Kipper hasn't played 39 games by that point

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10-29-2010, 03:22 PM
  #112
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Sure looked pretty bad last night. Maybe if Kipper plays it's an easy win over the Av's. I don't think you can really judge this team untill halfway through the season. hopefully Kipper hasn't played 39 games by that point
They looked good for the majority of that game, they just kind of ****ed it up in the last bit. Judging by the first 10 games we're doing pretty good, hopefully they keep it up.

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10-29-2010, 10:38 PM
  #113
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They looked good for the majority of that game, they just kind of ****ed it up in the last bit. Judging by the first 10 games we're doing pretty good, hopefully they keep it up.
Yeah lets not have a repeat of last year where we got off to a hot start and then just bomb the last 20 or 30 games.

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11-02-2010, 10:38 AM
  #114
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Yeah, the last game was a stinker, the sky is not falling. Not at all.

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11-02-2010, 12:55 PM
  #115
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Yeah, the last game was a stinker, the sky is not falling. Not at all.
The sky fell last year already. Anything good that happens now is a bonus

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11-02-2010, 02:09 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
Well apparently ESPN still thinks the Flames are doomed and ranked at #25. Not even a (meaningless) 7-0 preseason is enough to change their minds.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/powerrankings



Psst. Pierre. The experiment isn't Jokinen - they had him last year. The experiment is bringing back Tanguay.
Never really liked Jokinen, and just pointing out something I noticed the last couple games. Has anyone else noticed Tanguay seems a little to eager to dish the puck off? I remember one play in particular where he was RIGHT in the slot and dropped to either a trailing winger, or to the defence.

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11-02-2010, 02:29 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by RunTheODR View Post
Never really liked Jokinen, and just pointing out something I noticed the last couple games. Has anyone else noticed Tanguay seems a little to eager to dish the puck off? I remember one play in particular where he was RIGHT in the slot and dropped to either a trailing winger, or to the defence.
That's the Alex Tanguay experience and it was his M.O. even on his first go around with the Flames and his time in Colorado. It's one of his most frustrating attributes, he's got a decent shot, but he's always heavily biased towards passing, even when the shot is there.

I didn't really follow him in Tampa or Montreal, but he's historically demonstrated that trait.

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11-02-2010, 04:31 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunTheODR View Post
Never really liked Jokinen, and just pointing out something I noticed the last couple games. Has anyone else noticed Tanguay seems a little to eager to dish the puck off? I remember one play in particular where he was RIGHT in the slot and dropped to either a trailing winger, or to the defence.
This is nothing new. I'm usually concerned he'll pass it on a breakaway...

He's actually shooting more this year.

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01-04-2011, 05:38 AM
  #119
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Hockey analysts have been predicting that Calgary was in desperate need of a rebuild for some time now. At the beginning of the year, they were saying Calgary needs to blow this team up, and start over, before its too late. They predicted that Calgary would be a bottom feeding team.

Just wanted to bump this to show that my disdain towards the lack of hockey knowledge when discussing the Flames on this forum is indeed justified. Consider this my response to recent flames. It would appear rather evident that the flames forums needs some new perspectives.


Last edited by Nachoman AlfieSavage*: 01-04-2011 at 05:49 AM.
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01-04-2011, 11:14 AM
  #120
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The 2010/2011 Flames aren't a terrible group, they just aren't looking good on the ice. It looks, on most nights, that only a select few people are playing at all. Moss impressed me last night, but a 4th liner SHOULD NOT be our best player.


Last edited by Snoil11: 01-04-2011 at 12:57 PM. Reason: qdp
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01-04-2011, 11:15 AM
  #121
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I laughed, the fact people really believe that the Flames are a lottery team is beyond me. The amount of ignorance regarding this team is nothing short of pathetic

It just shows how little the media knows about the game... an underachieving team that barely missed the playoffs, improves slightly from the deadline until now.. and they expect a decline? The expectations on the Flames last year were pretty high, too high even... but now they are too low, far too low
I think this just goes to show how difficult it is for fans to give a rational, unbiased assessment of their own team. The season has played out exactly like the national media and fans outside Calgary predicted it would and all during a year where the Flames have been extremely fortunate in terms of staying healthy. I can't even imagine where this team would be if they had to face any adversity in terms of injuries...

Some people might be convinced Jay Feaster is on to something when he said the Flames are in a position to do a quick re-tool around their core group and once again compete in the West. Don't let them fool you, this organization needs to be torn down and re-built from the ground up. Anything less will be nothing short of a longterm disaster.

My only question is, how did they find the only executive in the NHL with a worse track record than Sutter at drafting and development to take over the reins? If the interim label is taken off Jay Feaster it could realistically be the darkest decade in franchise history. The looming decision on Jay Feaster's position within the organization is HUGE...

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01-04-2011, 11:45 AM
  #122
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Mod-edit: deleted.

The 2010/2011 Flames aren't a terrible group, they just aren't looking good on the ice. It looks, on most nights, that only a select few people are playing at all. Moss impressed me last night, but a 4th liner SHOULD NOT be our best player.
Well the odd night they might be the best player but not for 4 games in a row.


Last edited by Snoil11: 01-04-2011 at 12:56 PM. Reason: qep
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01-04-2011, 11:57 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
I think this just goes to show how difficult it is for fans to give a rational, unbiased assessment of their own team. The season has played out exactly like the national media and fans outside Calgary predicted it would and all during a year where the Flames have been extremely fortunate in terms of staying healthy. I can't even imagine where this team would be if they had to face any adversity in terms of injuries...

Some people might be convinced Jay Feaster is on to something when he said the Flames are in a position to do a quick re-tool around their core group and once again compete in the West. Don't let them fool you, this organization needs to be torn down and re-built from the ground up. Anything less will be nothing short of a longterm disaster.

My only question is, how did they find the only executive in the NHL with a worse track record than Sutter at drafting and development to take over the reins? If the interim label is taken off Jay Feaster it could realistically be the darkest decade in franchise history. The looming decision on Jay Feaster's position within the organization is HUGE...
I couldn't agree more. I wasn't insulting flames fans here persay, it was more a statement of prejudice blinding coherent analysis. Besides, there are clearly some posters who are honest and put much thought into their statements (Gnome for example) But thank you good sir, this sort of honesty is what needs to be spoken on these forums. Delusions and avoidance will accomplish nothing.

ps: Im not sold on Feaster. But its not fair to throw him under the bus...... yet.

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Originally Posted by lordstanleychaser View Post
Mod-edit: deleted.

The 2010/2011 Flames aren't a terrible group, they just aren't looking good on the ice. It looks, on most nights, that only a select few people are playing at all. Moss impressed me last night, but a 4th liner SHOULD NOT be our best player.
Talk to me about Iginla, you will hear nothing but the highest of praise. I have not said much positive, because there is little to be positive about. Its because i care about this franchise that i am this way.


Last edited by Snoil11: 01-04-2011 at 12:56 PM. Reason: qep
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01-04-2011, 01:48 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
I think this just goes to show how difficult it is for fans to give a rational, unbiased assessment of their own team. The season has played out exactly like the national media and fans outside Calgary predicted it would and all during a year where the Flames have been extremely fortunate in terms of staying healthy. I can't even imagine where this team would be if they had to face any adversity in terms of injuries...

Some people might be convinced Jay Feaster is on to something when he said the Flames are in a position to do a quick re-tool around their core group and once again compete in the West. Don't let them fool you, this organization needs to be torn down and re-built from the ground up. Anything less will be nothing short of a longterm disaster.

My only question is, how did they find the only executive in the NHL with a worse track record than Sutter at drafting and development to take over the reins? If the interim label is taken off Jay Feaster it could realistically be the darkest decade in franchise history. The looming decision on Jay Feaster's position within the organization is HUGE...
maybe I was off on them declining... but I was laughing at people calling them a lottery team... which they aren't... Mod-edit: deleted.


Last edited by Snoil11: 01-04-2011 at 06:40 PM. Reason: flaming
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01-04-2011, 02:12 PM
  #125
Stewie Griffin
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I couldn't agree more. I wasn't insulting flames fans here persay, it was more a statement of prejudice blinding coherent analysis.
Funny, because that's EXACTLY what you said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewtonsApple View Post
Just wanted to bump this to show that my disdain towards the lack of hockey knowledge when discussing the Flames on this forum is indeed justified. Consider this my response to recent flames. It would appear rather evident that the flames forums needs some new perspectives.
(ps: It's per se)

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