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Part X: Phoenix Coyotes - Between Scylla and Charybdis

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Old
07-27-2010, 10:49 AM
  #51
aj8000
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WOW, it almost appears that history is starting to repeat it's self.

From the coyotes website...

1995, Aug. 14 - The Spirit of Manitoba announces that they were unable to raise the required capital to proceed with the purchase of the Winnipeg Jets. The organization promptly disbands.

1995, Aug. 15 - The franchise announces that the 1995-96 season will be the final year for the Jets in Winnipeg since the team cannot be moved prior to 1995-96.

1995, Dec. 19 - The Winnipeg Jets ownership announces in a press conference that the new home of the franchise will be Phoenix, AZ.

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07-27-2010, 10:50 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
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The league's Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly dismissed online rumors Friday that the Ice Edge deal was in trouble.

"I know nothing about it. It would be new news to me," he wrote in an e-mail.
Funny, he said pretty much the same thing with regards to Katz pursuing a lease with Copps. He kind of reminds me of someone....hmmmmm

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07-27-2010, 10:50 AM
  #53
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How have season ticket sales been in Phoenix amidst all this crap? It'd be a shame if all this off-ice nonsense is affecting the excitement in the community generated by last season's performance.

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07-27-2010, 10:59 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by David_99 View Post
So when they once again go crawling back to JR, he can say, "Ok, I'll buy the team, but I don't want to pay for this year's loses. That 25 Mil in escrow you were saving for the NHL, yeah, I'll take that. Either pay the NHL and have the team leave or pay me and I'll keep it here. Your choice."

What's he got to lose?
Reinsdorf is the only other ownership candidate that we have heard of, from anyone. The problem is that the deal he has agreed to with the City of Glendale calls for upwards of $42 million in CFD revenues over the first 3 years, with $65 million of that going towards the purchase price of the team. Clearly, Glendale either doesn't like that deal, or knows that it is unrealistic or they would not have bothered to fiddle around for the past several weeks with IEH. It suggests to me that Reinsdorf's deal is not feasible for Glendale, so if anything is to give it will have to be Reinsdorf coming back with a better deal for Glendale. It is hard to see why he would do that, considering the predicament of the City of Glendale.

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07-27-2010, 11:21 AM
  #55
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Personally, I think there have been so many ups and downs it is still premature to for certain say its "over with"

one week its looking great for the Yotes, next week its looking gloomy.


This roller coaster ride is rough for Phx fans and relocation fans alike imo.



The thing that troubles me is finding out IEH has barely made an inch in progress.

I had confidence in them, but now I am second guessing that confidence...

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07-27-2010, 11:29 AM
  #56
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I am so sick and tired of this childish BS. There is no way in hell you can tell me that IceEdge thought they had given proper documentation without knowing the City didn't think so....that's a joke. Also now the Johnson clown saying that they need to buy the team before they agree on an arena lease...COME ON, are you serious!!!

As far as I am concerned this should be enough for the NHL to step in and say, enough this is getting stupid now. It's like a couple of grade school kids trying to negotiate a house deal...they have no clue on what they're doing.

There is NO OWNER....stop the madness pleasssssse!

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07-27-2010, 11:39 AM
  #57
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Put a lid on it, coyotes on prowl
Sightings on Beach Boulevard again

http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/814731
July 27, 2010
Danielle Wong
The Hamilton Spectator
(Jul 27, 2010)
"Coyotes are again being seen in Hamilton's east end.

Hamilton animal control services have received about a dozen reports of two coyotes in the Beach Boulevard area since the beginning of July, but the animals have not displayed dangerous behaviour."


Oh Nooo!!
Last time coyotes were seen in Hamilton JB was close behind.

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07-27-2010, 11:53 AM
  #58
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Reinsdorf is the only other ownership candidate that we have heard of, from anyone. The problem is that the deal he has agreed to with the City of Glendale calls for upwards of $42 million in CFD revenues over the first 3 years, with $65 million of that going towards the purchase price of the team. Clearly, Glendale either doesn't like that deal, or knows that it is unrealistic or they would not have bothered to fiddle around for the past several weeks with IEH. It suggests to me that Reinsdorf's deal is not feasible for Glendale, so if anything is to give it will have to be Reinsdorf coming back with a better deal for Glendale. It is hard to see why he would do that, considering the predicament of the City of Glendale.
My opinion again but Reinsdorf bowed out, so there is no agreeent. If he was to step back in, I'd think he would be in an even stronger position, so forget about old agreements.

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07-27-2010, 12:00 PM
  #59
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<insert gratuitous comment about unimaginative thread naming here>



A two-horned dilemma.

 
Old
07-27-2010, 12:04 PM
  #60
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My opinion again but Reinsdorf bowed out, so there is no agreeent. If he was to step back in, I'd think he would be in an even stronger position, so forget about old agreements.
I think the problem with Reinsdorf is it seemed very one sided. It was win win for him on everything. I do believe Reinsdorf would swoop in like a vulcher if given the opportunity but at this point I don't know that COG is smart enough to close a deal with anybody. I think this is why the NHL demanded the 25 million to cover losses and then backed away from them. They were simply tired of dealing with idiots. My gutt does tell me though, that Reindorf will be approached if Ice Edge falls apart and he will probably through in one last take it or leave it attempt. It's never gonna end

For the past year it's just been bumbling, stumbling all the way along. I just want it to stop.

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07-27-2010, 12:08 PM
  #61
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I have no doubt that COG will go crawling back to Reinsdorf (after all, they are clearly desperate to keep the team in their little town).

The question is whether Reinsdorf decides to get back into the race (which I can't imagine he wouldn't, after all he could take full advantage of the situation considering COG is negotiating from a position of weakness), and if so, what would his terms be?

Nonetheless, I do think this is the end for the Phoenix Coyotes. Even the NHL (ie. Bettman and Daly) seem to have given up and stopped caring.

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Old
07-27-2010, 12:32 PM
  #62
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I wonder what affect this has on Season Tickets, not so much those wanting to buy but maybe pulling/wanting their money back by those who might "Enough is enough, I'm not putting money down until I see a deal to keep them here?"

I honestly thought this might be a done deal finally. I feel horrid for Coyote fans that this comes. It's truly unfotunately, they deserve peace of mind. And I agree it wouldn't suprise me to see JR poke his nose in again, be interesting to see if he does, does he give the same offer as before, or does he get more concessions due to the possible weakness of CoG's position?


The wheels of the bus go round and round again....

EDIT: I missed the above discussion about JR's possible deal-apologies

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07-27-2010, 12:39 PM
  #63
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I wonder what affect this has on Season Tickets, not so much those wanting to buy but maybe pulling/wanting their money back by those who might "Enough is enough, I'm not putting money down until I see a deal to keep them here?"
That's probably a big reason why we've heard nothing for the last 4 weeks from Ice Edge or the city - they wanted season tickets to start selling under the impression that everything is rosy and a deal would be announced soon. Now we know they haven't even been negotiating at all in July, and Ice Edge gave insufficient proof of financing on the June 30 deadline. If I had bought tickets in the past 4 weeks, I would be ticked off.

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07-27-2010, 12:48 PM
  #64
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I noticed with interest that IEH's PR guy (Johnson) seems to be of the opinion that IEH has to first purchase the team from the NHL, and then negotiate a lease agreement with Glendale. Everything that any of the other principals have stated indicates that the process is the reverse; conclude negotiations with Glendale and then move on to negotiations for purchase with the NHL. Is IEH's PR firm really that clued out, or just trying to spin this? If the former, then that doesn't speak well for the PR firm. If the latter, then, it doesn't speak well for the PR firm either.
That statement by the PR guy is a real "head-scratcher." The PR guy doesn't seem to know what he is talking about in terms of the process, which is another sign that IEH doesn't have its act together. These guys can't even get their message straight.

The basic steps in the process as I understand it:

1) Negotiate a revised lease with the COG that brings in millions of additional revenues per year (if possible and/or realistic via the CFD mechanism, etc.).

2) Take new lease, a substantial down payment and a business "turn around" plan to a bank or other investor to obtain a loan to finance 50% of the purchase and a line of credit to operate franchise.

3) Sell plan to NHL BOG and obtain approval.

The COG has added for IEH a condition precedent to 1) above: show us you have the equity and debt financing to purchase and run team, ASSUMING we provide the favourable lease. It appears IEH has not yet achieved this precondition to the above steps to the satifaction of the COG. Of course, obtaining the financing and a favourable lease are not really separate steps for a group like IEH imo, since they likely can't have one without the other.

GHOST

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07-27-2010, 12:52 PM
  #65
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Just my theory, but one explanation for the complete/incomplete - acceptable/unacceptable financials may be what we speculated earlier, IEH may have some degree of wealth on paper, but it may not be liquid, or not even firm. What if they're proposal is to put in their little bit of cash, and back loans for the rest, with the collateral being their assets, like stocks in companies they may own.

The NHL/COG may not be happy with the mix of equity/loans, and there may be questions about the actual value of the collateral and the ability to turn that collateral into cash if there was a cash call.

If this was the case, and there was an impasse with IEH saying this is the best we can do, take it or leave it, that may be why the COG comes out publicly because other potential owners may be thinking that IEH has this in the bag, so by letting the public know that IEH is slipping, then it does two things, A, it brings pressure on IEH to be more accommodating, and B, it may bring other interested players back into the game *cough* JR *cough*.

This is one scenario, I'm sure there are others, I agree with the others, JR may get back in, and he'll be even less flexible than he has been in the past, and understandably so.

At this point, I'm guessing that IEH can't get it done, COG won't be able to meet JR's demands, and the team will end up in Winnipeg. After this bruhaha, I can see the NHL wanting the sure-thing with an owner with wealth, a building, a fan-base and hockey experience in Winnipeg, no matter how much interest is expressed in other cities. I actually don't think there'll be too much firm interest in other cities given the uncertainty with the economy, if/when cities do step in and express interest, I see it as a precursor for them getting a team down the road, but not this year, not with this timeframe.

COG will get some consolation in the NHL maybe working a relocation fee to Winnipeg that, after the NHL's losses are made right, the rest or at least a good chunk goes to Glendale that they can then use to help pay down their arena debt.

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07-27-2010, 12:56 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by GHOSTofMAROONSroad View Post
That statement by the PR guy is a real "head-scratcher." The PR guy doesn't seem to know what he is talking about in terms of the process, which is another sign that IEH doesn't have it's act together. These guys can't even get their message straight.

The basic steps in the process as I understand it:

1) Negotiate a revised lease with the COG that brings in millions of additional revenues per year (if possible and/or realistic via the CFD mechanism, etc.).

2) Take new lease, a substantial down payment and a business "turn around" plan to a bank or other investor to obtain a loan and line of credit to finance 50% of the purchase and a line of credit to operate franchise.

3) Sell plan to NHL BOG and obtain approval.

The COG has added for IEH a condition precedent to 1) above: show us you have the equity and debt financing to purchase and run team, ASSUMING we provide the favourable lease. It appears IEH has not yet achieved this precondition to the above steps to the satifaction of the COG. Of course, obtaining the financing and a favourable lease are not really separate steps for a group like IEH imo, since they likely can't have one without the other.

GHOST
This is the gist I get too, but possibly going back and forth between 1 and 2 (Provide sufficent proof of finances, you don't get lease until we get that. Meanwhile (and this PURE speculation on my part) IEH has been told by bank "you don't get full finances until you provide us with lease/deal" The impression I get is that IEH has almost been going back and forth, with CoG and the banks giving the "we'll give X if we see Y (why?) in return". It strikes as not having been fully planned out (but I know little to nothing about business )

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07-27-2010, 12:58 PM
  #67
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OK, this story wasn't leaked, but was released by the COG. I think that it is a prelude to them signing an agreement with Reinsdorf, or perhaps another buyer. Otherwise, it makes no sense for them to go out of their way to fan the flames of relocation.

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07-27-2010, 01:04 PM
  #68
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COG will get some consolation in the NHL maybe working a relocation fee to Winnipeg that, after the NHL's losses are made right, the rest or at least a good chunk goes to Glendale that they can then use to help pay down their arena debt.
Interesting, but I'm not to sure. The fact that PHX is in the financial position they are is not the fault of TNSE, so why should they help pay down the CoG debt? If anyone should help the CoG it should be the NHL, but they will just claim that bad business decisions is the reason they are a financial wreck.

I guess the NHL could ask TNSE for a $10 million transfer fee and use the money however they want ( keep it or give it to the CoG ) but $10 million is an insignificant amount to help pay down the CoG debt. And if the NHL starts asking for $100 million or more for a transfer fee, then TNSE will probably say no thanks, you can keep the team.

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07-27-2010, 01:12 PM
  #69
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This is the gist I get too, but possibly going back and forth between 1 and 2 (Provide sufficent proof of finances, you don't get lease until we get that. Meanwhile (and this PURE speculation on my part) IEH has been told by bank "you don't get full finances until you provide us with lease/deal" The impression I get is that IEH has almost been going back and forth, with CoG and the banks giving the "we'll give X if we see Y (why?) in return". It strikes as not having been fully planned out (but I know little to nothing about business )
What you say makes perfect sense to me. If you were a bank being asked to loan IEH $80 million to buy an asset that has never made a dime, would you not want to make sure that said asset actually has a lease agreement in place before handing the money over? I think we are stuck in a circle here. The bank won't give the money because there is no lease, the CoG won't negotiate a lease until IEH owns the team, and the NHL won't sell the team until they see the money.

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07-27-2010, 01:17 PM
  #70
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COG will get some consolation in the NHL maybe working a relocation fee to Winnipeg that, after the NHL's losses are made right, the rest or at least a good chunk goes to Glendale that they can then use to help pay down their arena debt.
Personally, I don't see the NHL giving them a dime unless there is already some kind of written agreement, which I doubt. Did the NHL give any money to Winnipeg, Quebec, Minnesota or Hartford? Why would they? An owner's business failed, not the city, and the NHL moved on. They're a business, not a charity. I don't see that changing, especially because of incompetence, in this case, which was outside of the NHL's control.

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07-27-2010, 01:19 PM
  #71
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What you say makes perfect sense to me. If you were a bank being asked to loan IEH $80 million to buy an asset that has never made a dime, would you not want to make sure that said asset actually has a lease agreement in place before handing the money over? I think we are stuck in a circle here. The bank won't give the money because there is no lease, the CoG won't negotiate a lease until IEH owns the team, and the NHL won't sell the team until they see the money.



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07-27-2010, 01:20 PM
  #72
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Interesting, but I'm not to sure. The fact that PHX is in the financial position they are is not the fault of TNSE, so why should they help pay down the CoG debt? If anyone should help the CoG it should be the NHL, but they will just claim that bad business decisions is the reason they are a financial wreck.

I guess the NHL could ask TNSE for a $10 million transfer fee and use the money however they want ( keep it or give it to the CoG ) but $10 million is an insignificant amount to help pay down the CoG debt. And if the NHL starts asking for $100 million or more for a transfer fee, then TNSE will probably say no thanks, you can keep the team.
True, I don't expect it to be much, but TNSE may be asked to pay some kind of relocation fee, and instead of the league distributing it amonst the other teams, they may let COG keep it, $10 or $20 million or whatever. It won't make a huge difference, but I see it as a way for the NHL to give some incentive for COG to keep on good terms with the league and to reassure other cities they may want to deal with in the future that the NHL doesn't completely leave cities in the limbo after they build an NHL arena.

I agree much of this is COG's fault, but the importance of protecting the brand and reputation as much as possible with future potential NHL cities may require them to turn the other cheek.

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07-27-2010, 01:25 PM
  #73
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OK, this story wasn't leaked, but was released by the COG. I think that it is a prelude to them signing an agreement with Reinsdorf, or perhaps another buyer. Otherwise, it makes no sense for them to go out of their way to fan the flames of relocation.

Doesn't make sense, if IEH did not have exclusivity, then you do not need to announce that fact. Just negotiate with the new buyer and get the deal done. Announcing that IEH deal is trouble just lowers the chance of borderline season tickets being sold. I suspect the leak from Eklund and the IEH denial that the deal was in trouble was the reason the COG went to the press

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07-27-2010, 01:25 PM
  #74
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In that relocation deal that was apparently 15 minutes away from happening a few months ago, was any of the 170 million of TNSE's offer slotted as a relocation fee? Would that money have gone to COG if a relocation had infact taken place?

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07-27-2010, 01:28 PM
  #75
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This event just shows that when this is all said and done, Bettman MUST be fired.

How long can it possibly take to sell this team? Seriously? I guess when you are trying to sell it to one of two groups that want to buy the team for basically free, it takes a long time. Meanwhile, this mess could have been over months ago if Bettman had just admitted he made a mistake in Glendale, and sold the team to the only people that have put money on the table ( TNSE ).

The question I also have is: IEH is quoted as saying that they won't negotiate a lease with the CoG until they own the team. So am I correct in assuming that the real holdup here is the NHL? They won't sell the team? Or will the NHL not sell the team until IEH gets a lease with the CoG?

Given this circular negotiating, how can this deal ever be made?
Actually, he's more likely to be a given a bonus. As the circus continues other cities creaming for an NHL team continue to accumulate time to put their bid proposals together, driving up the value of the "portable" asset. And Bettman will prove to be good to his word the league will not have lost penny on the buy out of BK: recoup losses on the purchase price though a local sale; the COG escrow fund for 2010-11; or purchase price + relo fee to move the team.

However this ends, Bettman's not getting fired.

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I wonder what affect this has on Season Tickets, not so much those wanting to buy but maybe pulling/wanting their money back by those who might "Enough is enough, I'm not putting money down until I see a deal to keep them here?"
It's crossed some minds during the past several weeks.

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