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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Part X: Phoenix Coyotes - Between Scylla and Charybdis

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Old
07-27-2010, 01:34 PM
  #76
Jesus Christ Horburn
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^I agree, I don't think Bettman will lose his job, especially not if the end result is the Coyotes returning to their former home in Winnipeg. Not only will he have improved the profitability of the franchise, but he'd probably be forgiven by most Canadian hockey fans for "Making it 7"

In addition, it doesn't seem like Bettman or Daly really care anymore (or are aware at the very least) about what happens in COG. It's as if they've told them "You're on your own. If you can't fnid a local owner by December 31st, we'll selling the team to TNSE". I can't really blame Bettman for COG's incompetence.

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07-27-2010, 01:56 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Running Riot View Post
In that relocation deal that was apparently 15 minutes away from happening a few months ago, was any of the 170 million of TNSE's offer slotted as a relocation fee? Would that money have gone to COG if a relocation had infact taken place?
Not sure why the COG would get any portion of the relocation fee (unless it was part fo bankruptcy negotiations which I don't believe it was)

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07-27-2010, 01:57 PM
  #78
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From Sportsnet's John Shannon:

http://twitter.com/JSportsnet

Quote:
Despite noise from Glendale, am told the Ice Edge group is still "on track" for purchase of Coyotes.

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07-27-2010, 02:29 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OEL View Post
From Sportsnet's John Shannon:

http://twitter.com/JSportsnet
Awesome news!

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07-27-2010, 02:45 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OEL View Post
From Sportsnet's John Shannon:

http://twitter.com/JSportsnet
Just pointing out in the original article, this was said:

Quote:
A group seeking to buy the Phoenix Coyotes has not complied with terms that Glendale officials believe are required to pursue the purchase, city leaders confirm.

But Ice Edge Holdings and the National Hockey League say the deal is moving forward.

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...#ixzz0uuhjFWv8
The Ice Edge guys seem pretty comfortable with the deal moving forward as well, later on in the article as they claim, so while something is fishy, it might be too soon to declare anything.

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Old
07-27-2010, 03:10 PM
  #81
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Bottom Line

I don't know if the deal is in jeopardy or not. My opinion is that the City just said Ice Edge doesn't have exclusivity. Which means to me, they don't have a lot of confidence they will get anything done before the Coyotes start drawing on the $25 million.

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07-27-2010, 03:16 PM
  #82
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Last time I ever thought of Scylla and Charybdis I'm sure I was smoking a joint and listening to "Dark Side of the Moon" on vinyl. Ah, memories.

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07-27-2010, 03:17 PM
  #83
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yes while we are speculating any of the scenarios posted are possible

my bet would be on the good old fashioned dynamic of ever changing commitment from investors and banks to IEH.... investors can be an interesting breed....many investors spook easily even in deals that seemingly make more financial sense on the surface than this deal. perhaps its as simple as IEH has not been able to get their financial commitments crystallised....the longer it has taken the more Leary the CoG has become that it will ever get done....the longer it takes the more investors get spooked and possibly drop out creating need for new investors....and the backsliding sets in

at the end of the day putting together cash for a business that has a long track record of losing money by a group that has little (if any) experience in running a successful and profitable sports franchise must be a next to impossible pitch

the fact they have gotten this far, barring unforeseen personal wealth on one of the principles we are unaware of, is really an impressive accomplishment IMHO

conspiracy theory alert

i have always felt JR would re-enter at some point but it would be a time pressure.....last minute....hard ball...take it or leave it offer that would allow him much more flexibility on his ability to exit than we have seen to date in the MOU

then again maybe i am giving too much credit to Jerry's appetite for a deal on this project......time will tell.....the time sensitivity leverage was reset from late June to late December by the NHL and CoG getting the $25 million dollar solution in place to buy some time....perhaps its as simple as JR taking another brake and re-entering when and if he could provide the last and final option to the CoG and then extract maximum concessions all the while being fully prepared to walk away

the twists and turns continue on this saga and this can't be good for business....this must be creating immense downward pressure on sponsorship, advertising, Season ticket sales, luxury box sales....and sadly they are squandering the opportunity and good will that was generated last season by the solid and exciting on ice product and packed house during the playoffs.....we all saw that magic vibe and this continued uncertainty is pi55ing it away?

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Old
07-27-2010, 03:26 PM
  #84
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Ice Edge: We now have exclusivity! That is a huge step forward! Huge! Now the simple task of negotiating a new lease!
CoG: Ice Edge did not file the required paper work stipulated by our deadline.
Ice Edge: Yes we did. Well, not all of it, but it should be fine.
CoG: Actually, no, it isn't fine. We can't proceed without the paper work.
Ice Edge: Well, we need to negotiate a new lease before we can receive all of our financing.
CoG: We need to verify your financials before negotiating a new lease.
Ice Edge PR: Well we can't negotiate a lease until we buy the team! D'uh!
CoG: Ice Edge does not have exclusivity.
Ice Edge PR: Pfft, exclusivity means nothing. We are moving forward according to plan! Full steam ahead! Toot toot!
CoG: We haven't held talks with Ice Edge in 5 weeks.

NHL: ... What? Don't look at me!

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07-27-2010, 03:36 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David_99 View Post
Ice Edge: We now have exclusivity! That is a huge step forward! Huge! Now the simple task of negotiating a new lease!
CoG: Ice Edge did not file the required paper work stipulated by our deadline.
Ice Edge: Yes we did. Well, not all of it, but it should be fine.
CoG: Actually, no, it isn't fine. We can't proceed without the paper work.
Ice Edge: Well, we need to negotiate a new lease before we can receive all of our financing.
CoG: We need to verify your financials before negotiating a new lease.
Ice Edge PR: Well we can't negotiate a lease until we buy the team! D'uh!
CoG: Ice Edge does not have exclusivity.
Ice Edge PR: Pfft, exclusivity means nothing. We are moving forward according to plan! Full steam ahead! Toot toot!
CoG: We haven't held talks with Ice Edge in 5 weeks.

NHL: ... What? Don't look at me!
entertaining version of the proceedings......funny stuff David_99

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Old
07-27-2010, 04:15 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OEL View Post
Last time I ever thought of Scylla and Charybdis I'm sure I was smoking a joint and listening to "Dark Side of the Moon" on vinyl. Ah, memories.






Although you would have been listening to The Police, no? I believe I was in elementary school (grammar school for you Nucks) when DSOM came out.

 
Old
07-27-2010, 04:29 PM
  #87
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So I guess the real question is, has HF upped their bandwidth for when the server gets innundated when this deal falls through and the weight of the internet sports world floods here to catch the news.

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07-27-2010, 04:36 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by tnatibaH View Post
So I guess the real question is, has HF upped their bandwidth for when the server gets innundated when this deal falls through and the weight of the internet sports world floods here to catch the news.
Nah - I doubt it will surpass the flood when Moyes declared BK with JB's offer or the day Judge Baum rejected JB's bid and accepted the NHL's.

Now, the day the NHL announces the team is moving to KC - and not Winnipeg, Hamilton, or Quebec - well, that's another story

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07-27-2010, 04:38 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
Nah - I doubt it will surpass the flood when Moyes declared BK with JB's offer or the day Judge Baum rejected JB's bid and accepted the NHL's.

Now, the day the NHL announces the team is moving to KC - and not Winnipeg, Hamilton, or Quebec - well, that's another story
Or maybe Mexico

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07-27-2010, 04:50 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post





Although you would have been listening to The Police, no? I believe I was in elementary school (grammar school for you Nucks) when DSOM came out.
Nope, DSOM. Who said I was in college at the time?

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07-27-2010, 04:56 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by tnatibaH View Post
Or maybe Mexico
Mexico makes as little sense to the NHL as Winnipeg. Neither place does anything but spike their chances of landing a big US TV contract in the upcoming years.

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07-27-2010, 05:06 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Interesting, but I'm not to sure. The fact that PHX is in the financial position they are is not the fault of TNSE, so why should they help pay down the CoG debt? If anyone should help the CoG it should be the NHL, but they will just claim that bad business decisions is the reason they are a financial wreck.

I guess the NHL could ask TNSE for a $10 million transfer fee and use the money however they want ( keep it or give it to the CoG ) but $10 million is an insignificant amount to help pay down the CoG debt. And if the NHL starts asking for $100 million or more for a transfer fee, then TNSE will probably say no thanks, you can keep the team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_99 View Post
Personally, I don't see the NHL giving them a dime unless there is already some kind of written agreement, which I doubt. Did the NHL give any money to Winnipeg, Quebec, Minnesota or Hartford? Why would they? An owner's business failed, not the city, and the NHL moved on. They're a business, not a charity. I don't see that changing, especially because of incompetence, in this case, which was outside of the NHL's control.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
Not sure why the COG would get any portion of the relocation fee (unless it was part of bankruptcy negotiations which I don't believe it was)
It is part of the bankruptcy on a subsequent sale but I am nnot going to dive into that mess to get the exact language. As I said in an earlier post in a different thread on this topic (no I am NOT going to go find it), if the NHL relocates the team, the court will require them to indicate the relocation fee which will open up another whole can of worms....



Quote:
Originally Posted by Running Riot View Post
^I agree, I don't think Bettman will lose his job, especially not if the end result is the Coyotes returning to their former home in Winnipeg. Not only will he have improved the profitability of the franchise, but he'd probably be forgiven by most Canadian hockey fans for "Making it 7"

In addition, it doesn't seem like Bettman or Daly really care anymore (or are aware at the very least) about what happens in COG. It's as if they've told them "You're on your own. If you can't fnid a local owner by December 31st, we'll selling the team to TNSE". I can't really blame Bettman for COG's incompetence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caps4Life View Post
I don't know if the deal is in jeopardy or not. My opinion is that the City just said Ice Edge doesn't have exclusivity. Which means to me, they don't have a lot of confidence they will get anything done before the Coyotes start drawing on the $25 million.
The YOtes are not going to be able to draw on the $25 mil until they start having actual cash losses which won't be until they start paying their payroll and maybe not until december. NHL teams are front loaded in that most get a significant portion of their revenues before the season starts (season tickets, sponsorships, suites, etc.) and have minimal expenses (staff excluding players, utilities, etc.).

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07-27-2010, 05:09 PM
  #93
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The Winnipeg Free Press has picked up the story and has added this:

Quote:
The Arizona Republic reported today Ice Edge Holdings lost its right to negotiate exclusively with the City of Glendale to lease the Jobing.com Arena as part of its quest to buy the Coyotes.

The exclusivity deal — which would have prevented any other interested buyers from coming in and trying to outbid Ice Edge — was negotiated in June but collapsed when Ice Edge didn't provide all the financial documents the city had demanded by June 18.

Glendale spokesperson Julie Frisoni today said all the city is prepared to say is that the Arizona Republic story "is accurate."

"The city does not comment on ongoing negotiations," said Frisoni.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bre.../99332254.html

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07-27-2010, 05:12 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Scottrocks58 View Post
Mexico makes as little sense to the NHL as Winnipeg. Neither place does anything but spike their chances of landing a big US TV contract in the upcoming years.
Everyone knows that a TV contract was Bettmans goal. He tried and it hasn't happened. I believe ratings are getting better but having teams in places like Phoenix has not helped those ratings. What helped was the success of Philly and Chicago and the fact that many other people in other cities follow those teams. Nobody other than a few Winnipegers follow Phoenix on TV. I did see the thought of how it might work in Phoenix but not now with the circus. And hate to tell ya but the deal is done with Winnipeg if Phoenix fails. Bettman has already said this so blather on about your silly tv deal but it means nothing bacause there is no deal to be had, none that Phoenix will help.

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07-27-2010, 05:15 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Running Riot View Post
The Winnipeg Free Press has picked up the story and has added this:



http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bre.../99332254.html
Then why did she open her big yap in the first place - just to get this topic a new thread???

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07-27-2010, 06:04 PM
  #96
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Quote:
According to a report that surfaced yesterday evening, the City of Glendale says that they have not received all the financial documents they were to receive from Ice Edge Holdings five weeks ago. Because of this, they said the deal with the group is in jeopardy and there’s no exclusivity right now with Ice Edge.
...
* Why did you wait over a month to say something about this alleged missing paperwork?
* If this is true, why are you asking for these documents through the media?
* If there’s no exclusivity, are you negotiating with another group in case the Ice Edge deal really does fall through?

But the million dollar question that needs to be asked at this point is quite blunt. Do you, the local hockey fan, trust the City of Glendale in closing this deal and finally ending this soap opera?
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-1..._twitter:14945


Last edited by LadyStanley: 07-27-2010 at 06:32 PM. Reason: copyright
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07-27-2010, 06:50 PM
  #97
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Hard to know how much to believe from who, obviously.


But I admit when I first read the "deal may be in difficulty/not all financial disclosed, ect", and then read that followed up by (the way I read it and I'm paraphrasing) "well the deal is still on track to be completed so no worries", my first reaction was pretty much

Anyone played 3 card monte lately?

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07-27-2010, 08:44 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Scottrocks58 View Post
Mexico makes as little sense to the NHL as Winnipeg. Neither place does anything but spike their chances of landing a big US TV contract in the upcoming years.
Houston, TX should be the destination in that sense then, I think a Texas Hockey rivalry would help the sport in the southwest. I also think Portland, Kansas City & Tulsa should get a look in the relocation talk. I think Winnipeg & either Quebec City or Hamilton be used as expansion to 32 teams.

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07-27-2010, 09:00 PM
  #99
peter sullivan
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Hard to know how much to believe from who, obviously.
im not sure what glendale would gain from making this story up....they have been the most optimistic side in this all along....lots of ownership groups, negotiations will be complete in a matter of weeks.....its always been business as usual, nothing to see here....this is the first sign of them admitting any kind of difficulty, so its pretty hard not to give it some creedence.

if the financing is a sticking point and glendale chose to make it public then they obviously feel like they have hit a wall....im sure there have been many opportunities to resolve the issue behind closed doors....why make it public if there is any other option....clearly their proof of financing wasnt sufficient and IEH are refusing to rectify the issue (or they cant).

it seems unlikely that much progress has occured in the negotiations if they are still stuck on the very first requirement....are we to believe that they just ignored that issue and have been progressing nicely otherwise and now for some reason this one issue has reared its head?.....its more likely that the negotiations never really got off the ground and IEH is scrambling looking for someone to lend them money.

for glendale to go public with the issue says to me that it must be a pretty big stumbling block because they have nothing to gain by creating doubt and everything to lose.

if anything we have learned during this process that when cracks start to show, at least one side denies it but in every instance they have eventually lead to a breakdown....in my opinion it is a matter of time before we hear the other shoe dropping.


Last edited by peter sullivan: 07-27-2010 at 09:30 PM.
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Old
07-27-2010, 09:18 PM
  #100
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For what it's worth, Stephen Brunt was on the Team 1040 this afternoon and speculated that if the deal between COG and IEH falls apart within the next few days (I assume he meant by August 6th), he believes the team will be playing in Winnipeg for the 2010-2011 season. He said he can't imagine a situation where COG pays the 25 million to keep the team in Glendale for another year.

He also said that the Goldwater Institute have continued to monitor the situation.

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