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Is Mario Lemieux the most versatile goalscorer ever?

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07-27-2010, 10:09 AM
  #1
BenchBrawl
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Is Mario Lemieux the most versatile goalscorer ever?

Pretty much the title , was he the one who manage to consistently score the most goals in a lot of different ways requiring differant skills meaning he was the hardest to defend against as a goalscorer?

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07-27-2010, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
Pretty much the title , was he the one who manage to consistently score the most goals in a lot of different ways requiring differant skills meaning he was the hardest to defend against as a goalscorer?
I would say both he an Jagr were about equal in that regard. They could beat with speed, strength, finesse, or a shot. Lemiuex had better hands, reach, and vision, which ultimately made him a better player, but Jagr was stronger and had a better shot. Ofcourse Mario was the better player, but their goalscoring was close.

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07-27-2010, 10:19 AM
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BraveCanadian
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Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
Pretty much the title , was he the one who manage to consistently score the most goals in a lot of different ways requiring differant skills meaning he was the hardest to defend against as a goalscorer?
He has to be right up there. The combination of size and strength, speed, vision, reach, incredible shot, incredible accuracy, 1 on 1 ability.. hell 1 on 2 ability.. there is a good case for Mario as the best goal scorer ever even though he never even reached his full potential because of injuries etc.

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07-27-2010, 10:26 AM
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BenchBrawl
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Originally Posted by Turd Ferguson View Post
I would say both he an Jagr were about equal in that regard. They could beat with speed, strength, finesse, or a shot. Lemiuex had better hands, reach, and vision, which ultimately made him a better player, but Jagr was stronger and had a better shot. Ofcourse Mario was the better player, but their goalscoring was close.
I like Jagr and defend him most of the time , but Mario scored a lot more than Jagr when healthy.
And Jagr scored a lot.

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07-27-2010, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Turd Ferguson View Post
I would say both he an Jagr were about equal in that regard. They could beat with speed, strength, finesse, or a shot. Lemiuex had better hands, reach, and vision, which ultimately made him a better player, but Jagr was stronger and had a better shot. Ofcourse Mario was the better player, but their goalscoring was close.
....you cannot be serious. Mario was a sniper on a level that Jagr did not approach.
And that is not to take anything away from Jagr's shot, which was obviously at an elite level, but come on.

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07-27-2010, 04:26 PM
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...indeed.

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07-27-2010, 04:33 PM
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Yes, Mario has got to be the most versatile.

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07-27-2010, 04:43 PM
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Yes and I agree Jagr is not is equal and not near his equal. Take a look at the footage of a vintage Mario in '89 and '93, a level all to himself.

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07-27-2010, 05:18 PM
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I don't think Jagr was "close" to Mario in the goal scoring department. Look, Jagr was still an elite goal scorer in his career and we will witness his goal scoring highlights for years to come, but Mario is arguably #1 all-time. That's hard to compare to.

And while Jagr had his fair share of rabbits to pull out of his hat vs. a goalie let's look at Mario for starters:

- he could freeze goalies until they made the slightest of flinches and then roof it top corner of the inside of the goalpost
- he had that long reach and could deke the goalie out of his jock usually on the backhand. He would wait until the goalie committed himself and then use his reach to make it look so effortless
- he had a wicked slap shot, and an accurate slap shot
- he didn't use his wrist shot as often, but he had such quick hands and wrists and so many of his goals were done from snapshots
- or he would just shoot the puck top corner without much hesitation (1987 Canada Cup a few times).

I think the first and last types of goals were the most common for Mario, followed closely by the 2nd one

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07-27-2010, 05:35 PM
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In my lifetime, I never saw somebody score in more different ways than Lemieux. And it hurts to say that.

This doesn't mean I rank Lemieux as the greatest goal scorer of all time. I have Bossy, amongst others, ahead of him, but obviously Bossy did not have the same kind of diversity when it came to goal scoring. Lemieux could beat you with a slapper, a wrist shot, he could deke out an entire team, plow through an entire team, and do things with the puck that seemed impossible.

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07-28-2010, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
I like Jagr and defend him most of the time , but Mario scored a lot more than Jagr when healthy.
And Jagr scored a lot.
Yea Im not arguing that Jagr was a better goalscorer. I'd rate Mario as a 10 and Jagr as a 9-9.5, but I was saying their versatility was equal. They are probably the two most versatile goalscorers I've ever witnessed, they could beat you in so many ways.

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07-28-2010, 11:27 AM
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I would have to say no.
As great as Mario was, he wasn't overly deceptive. He pretty much came right at you and scored anyway, it's not like he would "trick" you too often.
If given a choice, Mario would choose to simply go through you rather than piss around most of the time.

Gretzky was the guy that was most versatile imo.
Most of the time you didn't even know what or even where he was coming from.
Can't even begin to count how many times you would be watching Gretzky wondering what in the hell he was doing or where he was going and a few seconds later the puck is in the net while you sit there thinking how did that happen.
Now if we're having trouble figuring out what he's doing from the stands and on tv, how do you think those poor goalies felt down there in the thick of things.

No saying Mario wasn't on a different continent compared to everyone else when it came to goal scoring, just saying Gretzky was on another planet


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07-28-2010, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
I would have to say no.
As great as Mario was, he wasn't overly deceptive. He pretty much came right at you and scored anyway, it's not like he would "trick" you too often.
If given a choice, Mario would choose to simply go through you rather than piss around most of the time.

Gretzky was the guy that was most versatile imo.
Most of the time you didn't even know what or even where he was coming from.
Can't even begin to count how many times you would be watching Gretzky wondering what in the hell he was doing or where he was going and a few seconds later the puck is in the net while you sit there thinking how did that happen.
Now if we're having trouble figuring out what he's doing from the stands and on tv, how do you think those poor goalies felt down there in the thick of things.

No saying Mario wasn't on a different continent compared to everyone else when it came to goal scoring, just saying Gretzky was on another planet
Just because he came out of nowhere a lot to score does not mean he was the most versatile scorer ever. A Gretzky goal was either a slapper from far out, a rebound on the doorstep, or a backhand from behind the net. Lemieux was all of this, including dangling entire teams, putting the puck wherever, however. He's the only player to score a goal all 5 possible ways in 1 game, pretty versatile. Also, on more than a few occasions in Lemieux's career, he scored right off the face-off, with his stick between his legs, or with people draped all over his back while manuevering his way through defenders and goalies. He's also the only player in NHL history to lead the league in goals per game, in three different decades. Very comfortably as well I might add.

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07-28-2010, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan87 View Post
Just because he came out of nowhere a lot to score does not mean he was the most versatile scorer ever. A Gretzky goal was either a slapper from far out, a rebound on the doorstep, or a backhand from behind the net. Lemieux was all of this, including dangling entire teams, putting the puck wherever, however. He's the only player to score a goal all 5 possible ways in 1 game, pretty versatile. Also, on more than a few occasions in Lemieux's career, he scored right off the face-off, with his stick between his legs, or with people draped all over his back while manuevering his way through defenders and goalies. He's also the only player in NHL history to lead the league in goals per game, in three different decades. Very comfortably as well I might add.

Yeah, good points, just not sure if you wouldn't be better off saying Mario was the better pure goal scorer though instead of more versatile.

Versatile to me, implies scoring goals with deception and being outside of conventional thinking and that's more Gretzky than Lemieux, know what I mean?

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07-28-2010, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
I would have to say no.
As great as Mario was, he wasn't overly deceptive. He pretty much came right at you and scored anyway, it's not like he would "trick" you too often.
If given a choice, Mario would choose to simply go through you rather than piss around most of the time.
I noticed the word "deceptive" there. I think he certainly did deceive goalies. He would make like he was going to shoot, be patient, patient, hang on, hang on, and then when the goalie made a move or just flat out froze Mario would use his long reach to put it on his backhand. Then the next game a goalie would assume Mario was going to deke and then the next thing he knows it's in the top corner. I think that's pretty deceptive

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07-28-2010, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
Yeah, good points, just not sure if you wouldn't be better off saying Mario was the better pure goal scorer though instead of more versatile.

Versatile to me, implies scoring goals with deception and being outside of conventional thinking and that's more Gretzky than Lemieux, know what I mean?
I think Mario was the purest goal scorer, although he didn't finish his career with the most goals. I think if you asked a goalie who they feared in close, it would be Super Mario. THe guy was absolute money on breakaways, very seldom getting stopped.

Arguably the most talented imo. I'm not arguing him as a better player or having a better career as obviously that's not the case, injuries ect didn't help his cause, but to me he was the most naturally talented player. Gretzky used his instincts and vision like no other, but as far as puck handling/stick handling going through the entire team, Mario was simply magnificent. If he wasn't the most abused superstar in all of sports and was afforded the same respect and treatment Gretzky got, who knows?

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07-28-2010, 09:55 PM
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Mario Lemieux

Mario Lemieux was one of the rare players who had the ability to show you something different every game. Watched him from his minor hockey days.

It was very rare for a goalie or a defenseman to stop Mario Lemieux with the same move more than once. He had the ability to remember, recognize and change an opposing players previous success into a weakness.

Example.If a goalie strength was quickness, Mario Lemieux had the ability to delay and wait until executing resulting in the goalie over-committing.

Master at the cat and mouse game with the defense.

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