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Sather's off-season - impressive

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08-02-2010, 04:44 PM
  #276
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Please for the love of God stop living on June 14, 1994. The fans, MSG, the organization as a whole needs to stop living in 1994. It was a wonderful day, but it was 16 years ago. No one on our roster was even in the league when we won that cup.
Kovalev

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08-02-2010, 04:46 PM
  #277
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Kovalev
I said no one on OUR ROSTER.

Speaking of our roster. Isn't it weird on the Rangers site that Todd White is listed but Frolov isn't.

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08-02-2010, 04:48 PM
  #278
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I am not defending Sather as a successful GM but he's had 2 very good offseasons imo and I refuse to call the good he is doing today bad, just because of the past. he is making reparations and i find no fault in that.

Regardless, he is trying hard to make moves to improve this team esp. in light of the unfortunate passing of Cherepanov. Sometimes things work out, and sometimes they don't.

again, hindsight = foresight
His two "very good offseasons" were based around fixing his own mistakes.

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08-02-2010, 04:52 PM
  #279
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Agree.



Not really...Kotalik had a lot of success with Drury in Buffalo. It didn't work here, but I can understand why he tried it.



Tyler Arnason was a depth move for the AHL. Hard to see how that was a mistake.



Agree.



Disagree. Our PK was fine without him. It made sense to try to add someone who could bring more offense to the table.



Had Sather signed Antropov for what Atlanta gave him, everyone on here would want his head.

There were alot of errors last summer.



Who are you trying to kid? The moves were "nice"? Nice? Buddy...he rid us of a terrible contract, which allowed us to sign OUR BEST PLAYER. He also got us one of our-top 5 prospects in that deal. It was more than nice.



Probably true. But why are you all about Antropov. He didn't really impress in his time here. If I remember correct, he did jack against Washington in the playoffs. I don't understand why you would have wanted him back.



Again...Betts brought nothing to the table offensively. Our PK is fine without him. Why not try to get someone that could help chip in some more offense. I am not looking at Boyles results...they weren't good...but I understand why they brought him in. To at least try to add more offense.
Kotalik had shown to be a 40-45 point guy, 3 million a year for that is insane

Arnason was a waste, regardless of the reason of his signing. Wasn't one that need to be done at all.

Boyle more offense than Betts? I'm no Betts fan, but even I know that that is bunk.

4 million for a 70point scorer? I would have been perfectly fine with that. Considering eh game Kotalik 3 million for 45 points, an extra million for an additional 25 points is more than justifiable.

I'm not kidding anyone. The moves were nice, but those two very good moves do not wipe out the bad moves of the summer.

I've been a bit Antropov fan since before we got him and I'm still a fan today. The ONLY player to show up against the Caps in that series was Lundqvist. I would have taken Antropov back at 4 million per because he would have been our #1 center hands down.

Betts outscored Boyle thsi year, last year and the year before. I'm no Betts fan, but he's the better player between him and Boyle and of that there is no debate.

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08-02-2010, 04:52 PM
  #280
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Not really...Kotalik had a lot of success with Drury in Buffalo. It didn't work here, but I can understand why he tried it.

Fair enough. But why give him a three year deal? Who was he bidding against?


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Disagree. Our PK was fine without him. It made sense to try to add someone who could bring more offense to the table.
Who was that?



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Who are you trying to kid? The moves were "nice"? Nice? Buddy...he rid us of a terrible contract, which allowed us to sign OUR BEST PLAYER. He also got us one of our-top 5 prospects in that deal. It was more than nice.
Who gave out that terrible contract?

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08-02-2010, 04:54 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Fair enough. But why give him a three year deal? Who was he bidding against?




Who was that?





Who gave out that terrible contract
?
"the market"

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08-02-2010, 04:56 PM
  #282
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Kotalik had shown to be a 40-45 point guy, 3 million a year for that is insane

Arnason was a waste, regardless of the reason of his signing. Wasn't one that need to be done at all.

Boyle more offense than Betts? I'm no Betts fan, but even I know that that is bunk.

4 million for a 70point scorer? I would have been perfectly fine with that. Considering eh game Kotalik 3 million for 45 points, an extra million for an additional 25 points is more than justifiable.

I'm not kidding anyone. The moves were nice, but those two very good moves do not wipe out the bad moves of the summer.

I've been a bit Antropov fan since before we got him and I'm still a fan today. The ONLY player to show up against the Caps in that series was Lundqvist. I would have taken Antropov back at 4 million per because he would have been our #1 center hands down.

Betts outscored Boyle thsi year, last year and the year before. I'm no Betts fan, but he's the better player between him and Boyle and of that there is no debate.
Agreed 100%, I said the exact same thing in my post. I don't understand why people were up in arms when he got 4 million from Atlanta. Considering how he played for us and how he played for them last season, 4 million is a damn good deal.

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08-02-2010, 04:58 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Kotalik had shown to be a 40-45 point guy, 3 million a year for that is insane

Arnason was a waste, regardless of the reason of his signing. Wasn't one that need to be done at all.

Boyle more offense than Betts? I'm no Betts fan, but even I know that that is bunk.

4 million for a 70point scorer? I would have been perfectly fine with that. Considering eh game Kotalik 3 million for 45 points, an extra million for an additional 25 points is more than justifiable.

I'm not kidding anyone. The moves were nice, but those two very good moves do not wipe out the bad moves of the summer.

I've been a bit Antropov fan since before we got him and I'm still a fan today. The ONLY player to show up against the Caps in that series was Lundqvist. I would have taken Antropov back at 4 million per because he would have been our #1 center hands down.

Betts outscored Boyle thsi year, last year and the year before. I'm no Betts fan, but he's the better player between him and Boyle and of that there is no debate.
3 million is insane for 40 points? Dude in case you haven't noticed we pay Cally and Dubi 2.5 for that much. And no one complains about them.

As for Boyle. Like I said, it didn't work. But at least I understand the ATTEMPT to bring in someone who might be able to score more than Betts. Would I have taken Betts and our third rounder back over Boyle. Absolutely. But I understand why the Boyle experiment was attempted.

And my only question about Antropov is that if he is so good and if we should have kept him, why did he end up in Atlanta of all places? Also...he played with Kovalchuk. He is a good player no doubt, but how many of those assists were because he just happened to be one of the last two people to touch the puck before Kovy put it home?

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08-02-2010, 04:58 PM
  #284
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Just because things happened according to a certain timeline doesn't mean things couldn't have been done differently.
To a certain extend I agree.

However, Gomez cap hit was what?

Gaborik's cap hit is what?

For me, those numbers are to close and the deals were done in less than 24 hours of each other for me to believe that they were not intertwined in some way other than being coincidence.

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08-02-2010, 04:59 PM
  #285
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Who was that?
Higgins, probably.

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08-02-2010, 05:00 PM
  #286
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I have a question for you all. Assuming Sather has learned from his mistakes, would you want to keep him as the GM?

I just have to say that I am really happy with the direction the Rangers are headed in. The message has consistently been, "We want to grow with our core youth." And I feel they really have been sticking to that. With Gordie Clarke at the helm, the drafting has been far better. Not to mention the guy is a wizard at making trades.

Has he made mistakes? Oh most definitely. But many of his mistakes actually turned into nice positives. The Gomez and Kotalik mistakes netted us Prust and McDonough.

The guy isnt perfect by any means, but if he honestly can control his spending, I think he makes a pretty good GM. You can make arguments that he hasn't learned anything due to the Boogard signing, but the guy also finds discounts in other players to make up for it(Prospal, Frolov).

If I were the Dolans, I would keep Sather.

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08-02-2010, 05:01 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Who was that?
I was talking about Betts.

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08-02-2010, 05:02 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
"the market"
I enjoy that you ignore my response to you but make a little comment there. Cute.

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08-02-2010, 05:02 PM
  #289
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3 million is insane for 40 points? Dude in case you haven't noticed we pay Cally and Dubi 2.5 for that much. And no one complains about them.

As for Boyle. Like I said, it didn't work. But at least I understand the ATTEMPT to bring in someone who might be able to score more than Betts. Would I have taken Betts and our third rounder back over Boyle. Absolutely. But I understand why the Boyle experiment was attempted.

And my only question about Antropov is that if he is so good and if we should have kept him, why did he end up in Atlanta of all places? Also...he played with Kovalchuk. He is a good player no doubt, but how many of those assists were because he just happened to be one of the last two people to touch the puck before Kovy put it home?
Yeah and if he was with the Rangers he would have Gaborik instead of Kovalchuk, which makes me think he wouldn't have much, if any, less points with Gaborik on his wing then with Kovalchik.

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08-02-2010, 05:02 PM
  #290
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3 million is insane for 40 points? Dude in case you haven't noticed we pay Cally and Dubi 2.5 for that much. And no one complains about them.

As for Boyle. Like I said, it didn't work. But at least I understand the ATTEMPT to bring in someone who might be able to score more than Betts. Would I have taken Betts and our third rounder back over Boyle. Absolutely. But I understand why the Boyle experiment was attempted.

And my only question about Antropov is that if he is so good and if we should have kept him, why did he end up in Atlanta of all places? Also...he played with Kovalchuk. He is a good player no doubt, but how many of those assists were because he just happened to be one of the last two people to touch the puck before Kovy put it home?
Cally brings ALOT mor eot the table than Kotalik, even you have to admit that.

Antropov played with Kovy in Atl, could have played with Gaborik in NY and posted the same if not better numbers?

And for the record, a large majority of Antropo'v time was not spent playing with Kovy since Kovy much like Gaborik doesn't need the quintessential center to generate offence.

Big Nik is a better option at center than what we had last year and what we will have this year. He was a mistake in letting go.

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08-02-2010, 05:03 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by MadHookUp View Post
I have a question for you all. Assuming Sather has learned from his mistakes, would you want to keep him as the GM?

I just have to say that I am really happy with the direction the Rangers are headed in. The message has consistently been, "We want to grow with our core youth." And I feel they really have been sticking to that. With Gordie Clarke at the helm, the drafting has been far better. Not to mention the guy is a wizard at making trades.

Has he made mistakes? Oh most definitely. But many of his mistakes actually turned into nice positives. The Gomez and Kotalik mistakes netted us Prust and McDonough.

The guy isnt perfect by any means, but if he honestly can control his spending, I think he makes a pretty good GM. You can make arguments that he hasn't learned anything due to the Boogard signing, but the guy also finds discounts in other players to make up for it(Prospal, Frolov).

If I were the Dolans, I would keep Sather.
I think we need a change. Like others have said...10+ years and only two playoff series wins. That speaks for itself.

Has he had two good offseasons in a row now? Yeah I think so. But he has a long way to go to prove he has learned from his mistakes.

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08-02-2010, 05:05 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by MadHookUp View Post
I have a question for you all. Assuming Sather has learned from his mistakes, would you want to keep him as the GM?

I just have to say that I am really happy with the direction the Rangers are headed in. The message has consistently been, "We want to grow with our core youth." And I feel they really have been sticking to that. With Gordie Clarke at the helm, the drafting has been far better. Not to mention the guy is a wizard at making trades.

Has he made mistakes? Oh most definitely. But many of his mistakes actually turned into nice positives. The Gomez and Kotalik mistakes netted us Prust and McDonough.

The guy isnt perfect by any means, but if he honestly can control his spending, I think he makes a pretty good GM. You can make arguments that he hasn't learned anything due to the Boogard signing, but the guy also finds discounts in other players to make up for it(Prospal, Frolov).

If I were the Dolans, I would keep Sather.
If you were the Dolans, you wouldnt know the name of another GM candidate in the entire world and be forced to keep Sather by name-recognition alone.

Sather is what, 66 years old? How much longer does he have before he calls it quits? Cause lets be honest, Dolan isnt going to end this relationship. It actually might mean he'd have to unhook his guitar, get off his ass and try to find a GM...preferably one that didnt have the game pass him by 20 years ago.

But lets be honest, thats not going to happen. GM Mark Messier is another brewing nightmare because Dolan doesnt have the work ethic or creativity to make an intelligent hire.

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08-02-2010, 05:06 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Cally brings ALOT mor eot the table than Kotalik, even you have to admit that.

Antropov played with Kovy in Atl, could have played with Gaborik in NY and posted the same if not better numbers?

And for the record, a large majority of Antropo'v time was not spent playing with Kovy since Kovy much like Gaborik doesn't need the quintessential center to generate offence.

Big Nik is a better option at center than what we had last year and what we will have this year. He was a mistake in letting go.
Of course I admit that. I love Cally. But you said 3 million for 40 points. So that is what I was responding too.

I just don't think it was a mistake letting him go. Sure he scored 65+ pts in Atlanta last year. But who is to say he would have done that here. Gabby had a good thing going with Prospal at center. There is no guarantee that he would have been played with Antro.

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08-02-2010, 05:07 PM
  #294
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3 million is insane for 40 points? Dude in case you haven't noticed we pay Cally and Dubi 2.5 for that much. And no one complains about them.

As for Boyle. Like I said, it didn't work. But at least I understand the ATTEMPT to bring in someone who might be able to score more than Betts. Would I have taken Betts and our third rounder back over Boyle. Absolutely. But I understand why the Boyle experiment was attempted.

And my only question about Antropov is that if he is so good and if we should have kept him, why did he end up in Atlanta of all places? Also...he played with Kovalchuk. He is a good player no doubt, but how many of those assists were because he just happened to be one of the last two people to touch the puck before Kovy put it home?
Actually, neither player gets paid that much, and both players outproduced Kotalik. And, both players are on the upswing in their respective careers, as opposed to Kotalik, who was 32 at the time of the signing. The $3 million in itself was bad enough, but to commit three years was the horrific part. A better comparison, although not even fully apt, is the fact that Sather gave Kotalik more years at a longer commitment than he just gave to a better player in Frolov. It was an awful decision both before and after his tenure.


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08-02-2010, 05:08 PM
  #295
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I enjoy that you ignore my response to you but make a little comment there. Cute.
I didnt ignore your comment. I was just exposing the hypocrisy of it when you gave Sather a break because 'the market' dictated the Gomez deal and then you called it a "terrible contract" just minutes later. If you keep spinning the argument that Sather is doing well here, eventually the wheels will come flying off like they did right there.

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08-02-2010, 05:35 PM
  #296
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I was talking about Betts.
No, who was the guy who was bringing more offense than Betts?

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08-02-2010, 06:07 PM
  #297
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It's nearly impossible to analyze a GM using one offseason, because so many decisions that a GM makes have long-lasting implications. This is why it bother me when some fans split Sather's tenure into two parts, pre-lockout & post-lockout, as if Sather's blunders early in the decade have zero impact on this team now (sure would have been nice to have drafted almost anyone but Jessiman in '03).

And it's not even like Sather has been so good post-lockout. Bottom line, this team hasn't come close to sniffing a championship in his 10 years as GM. While I'm glad Sather is jettisoning his mistakes now, this doesn't absolve him from the fact that such bad signings were made in the first place and probably set us back a few years.

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08-02-2010, 07:13 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I didnt ignore your comment. I was just exposing the hypocrisy of it when you gave Sather a break because 'the market' dictated the Gomez deal and then you called it a "terrible contract" just minutes later. If you keep spinning the argument that Sather is doing well here, eventually the wheels will come flying off like they did right there.
What the hell are you talking about? How is that hypocrisy? Just because the market set a price doesn't mean it's a good contract.

Sather paid too much...but he paid what the market dictated for a player he wanted.

And if anyone is spinning anything it's you and the rest of the Sather hate group pushing your agenda.

Sure he has made some terrible decisions...but you people can't even admit to a good transaction when you see one.

Getting rid of Gomez to get Gabby was a "nice" move. Are you people serious? At least give credit where it is due.

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08-02-2010, 07:14 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
No, who was the guy who was bringing more offense than Betts?
I was talking about Boyle. Obviously he didn't actually provide more offense than Betts, but all I was saying is that I understood the move to try to get someone who would provide more offense.

Know what I'm saying?

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08-02-2010, 07:39 PM
  #300
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You're kidding right?

He traded Gomez. Used the cap space to sign Gabby. Then had some extra money so he signed Kotalik a week later.

Stop trying to push your own agenda and look at the facts without bias.
Agenda? I'm just looking at the numbers and using common sense. None of this means keeping Gomez was something Sather should have done. It's just clear that, using hindsight, 3 of the 4 players signed (Higgins, Kotalik and Brashear) were mistakes and a player like Gomez could have helped the current team, so I don't think it's crazy to think that maybe that wasn't the best set of moves the Rangers could have made at the time. I understand the Sather-bashing can get old but that doesn't mean everyone's got to drink the Ranger-blue Kool Aid either.

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