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Sather's off-season - impressive

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08-03-2010, 02:50 PM
  #326
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I personally don't see how supporting a single off-season constitutes being a fan of Sather.

It sounds to me that if Sather signed a 1st line center and Kovalchuk for Drury, Redden and a first you'd still be mad. I can hate the majority of what he has done yet appreciate what has been an acceptable off-season in terms of Sather.

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08-03-2010, 02:54 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
I honestly cannot comprehend this argument. I have been a Rangers fan a long time but yet I can still look at this one offseason and not think about the others.

The reason some of you cannot just look at ONE offseason is simply because you don't want too.
I disagree. It certainly seems that past offseasons have a bearing on how you view this one singular offseason. I mean, how else can you call this particularly mundane offseason "impressive" if youre not basing it against previous offseasons where Sather completely ****ed up this team?

If you want to see some impressive offseasons, take a look at Philly, Pittsburgh, and New Jersey...3 teams in our division that got better by having much better offseasons.

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08-03-2010, 03:04 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
Honestly, and i didn't want to go here, but people like you are the ones that support keeping sather as gm and likely this team at mediocrity until he steps down
I'm sorry...I wasn't aware that you were a better fan than me. I'll go and hide now.

I don't support keeping Sather. I just said the guy has had a decent offseason.

Jesus H. Christ some of you people love putting words in other peoples mouths. How about you stick your foot in your own for a second?

Just because I said the guy had a good offseason doesn't mean I am a fan. I am just giving credit where I think credit is due. If Redden were to score a game winning goal on opening night I would give him props...doesn't mean that I think he is any good of a player"

Some of you guys automatically attack when someone says anything good about Sather. It's just like the Drury thing and honestly it's getting exhausting having to deal with it in every single thread. A discussion can start out about anything and within 500 posts the entire thread will be *****ing about Glen Sather or Chris Drury.

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08-03-2010, 03:04 PM
  #329
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here's the irony

Fans are sick of vet signings for immediate results and want to go younger but expect younger players to produce in their first year or they're busts!?

same mentality here, just different sides of the table.
I'm glad someone else noticed it.

It's either that or our prospects are garbage in our fans' eyes, and every other team's prospects are gold. Doesn't matter if it's false or not, doesn't matter if our guys are far better, they're still "destined to be Brendle and Jessiman", every single one of them... it's damn annoying to read all the time.

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08-03-2010, 03:08 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I'm glad someone else noticed it.

It's either that or our prospects are garbage in our fans' eyes, and every other team's prospects are gold. Doesn't matter if it's false or not, doesn't matter if our guys are far better, they're still "destined to be Brendle and Jessiman", every single one of them... it's damn annoying to read all the time.
I agree with the mentality. But not when he's arguing about Brian ****ing Boyle.

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08-03-2010, 03:09 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I disagree. It certainly seems that past offseasons have a bearing on how you view this one singular offseason. I mean, how else can you call this particularly mundane offseason "impressive" if youre not basing it against previous offseasons where Sather completely ****ed up this team?

If you want to see some impressive offseasons, take a look at Philly, Pittsburgh, and New Jersey...3 teams in our division that got better by having much better offseasons.
How do past offseasons have a bearing at all? We are looking at a time period from June 10 to now.

Sather...

1) resigned all of our key free agents (aside from Staal, but that is coming)
2) brought in a great secondary scorer on an awesome contract
3) got an enforcer to protect Gabby and Hank (something everyone complained about last year)
4) brought in a solid back up goalie who will actually be able to spell Hank during the year and have some success
5) got two of our three or four top prospects to come out of college and sign with the team.

As for your argument about Pittsburgh, Philly and New Jersey. All they did was sign free agents, the same as we have done in the past. There is no guarantee that they will perform. Philly still doesn't have a goalie, Pittsburgh still doesn't have quality wingers for Crosby and who the heck knows if New Jersey is going to get to keep Kovy.

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08-03-2010, 03:11 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
I'm sorry...I wasn't aware that you were a better fan than me. I'll go and hide now.

I don't support keeping Sather. I just said the guy has had a decent offseason.

Jesus H. Christ some of you people love putting words in other peoples mouths. How about you stick your foot in your own for a second?

Just because I said the guy had a good offseason doesn't mean I am a fan. I am just giving credit where I think credit is due. If Redden were to score a game winning goal on opening night I would give him props...doesn't mean that I think he is any good of a player"

Some of you guys automatically attack when someone says anything good about Sather. It's just like the Drury thing and honestly it's getting exhausting having to deal with it in every single thread. A discussion can start out about anything and within 500 posts the entire thread will be *****ing about Glen Sather or Chris Drury.
you do not seem to read full posts....and if you hadnt bashed me after my initial post i wouldnt have said anything....unfortuantely you cannot agree to disagree....

explain to me how a person who spills fruit punch on a white table and stains it...although he cleans up the mess, the stain was still there for an entire year.....does that mean the mess never happened....no

you cant just forget that he signed brashear last year...giving credit to redden who scores a game winning goal is completely different than giving credit to sather who should have never signed brashear in the first play

one guy plays hard and sucks, the other is not good at what he does and doesnt seem to get better

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08-03-2010, 03:16 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
How do past offseasons have a bearing at all? We are looking at a time period from June 10 to now.

Sather...

1) resigned all of our key free agents (aside from Staal, but that is coming)
2) brought in a great secondary scorer on an awesome contract
3) got an enforcer to protect Gabby and Hank (something everyone complained about last year)
4) brought in a solid back up goalie who will actually be able to spell Hank during the year and have some success
5) got two of our three or four top prospects to come out of college and sign with the team.

As for your argument about Pittsburgh, Philly and New Jersey. All they did was sign free agents, the same as we have done in the past. There is no guarantee that they will perform. Philly still doesn't have a goalie, Pittsburgh still doesn't have quality wingers for Crosby and who the heck knows if New Jersey is going to get to keep Kovy.

Oh Yeah- well they don't have ............Redden

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08-03-2010, 03:20 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I disagree. It certainly seems that past offseasons have a bearing on how you view this one singular offseason. I mean, how else can you call this particularly mundane offseason "impressive" if youre not basing it against previous offseasons where Sather completely ****ed up this team?

If you want to see some impressive offseasons, take a look at Philly, Pittsburgh, and New Jersey...3 teams in our division that got better by having much better offseasons.
Exactly.. the only way to consider Sather's offseason "impressive" would be to compare it to previous years. Compared to what other teams in our division did, as well as Tampa Bay, Vancouver, and Atlanta, it looks pretty average. Which is an improvement for Sather, sadly.

This is also the same sort of mentality that occurs whenever a Rangers fan says the team has been "successful" since the lockout: they are only successful when compared to where they were before the lockout, because winning 2 playoff series wouldn't exactly be considered a monumental success compared to the rest of the league.

This offseason, Sather did what any competent GM would do: re-signed some UFAs & RFAs, got ride of some garbage that never should have been signed, and fulfilled some needs in signing a back-up goalie, secondary scorer, and enforcer (who has a bad contract and would not have been a necessity had Sather not screwed up with Brashear last year - this signing alone makes it pretty difficult to judge this offseason in a vacuum). There are still gaping holes on this team: Where is that physical, crease-clearing defenseman that the team has so desperately needed for years now? Are we ever going to get a legitimate #1 center?

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08-03-2010, 03:21 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
you do not seem to read full posts....and if you hadnt bashed me after my initial post i wouldnt have said anything....unfortuantely you cannot agree to disagree....

explain to me how a person who spills fruit punch on a white table and stains it...although he cleans up the mess, the stain was still there for an entire year.....does that mean the mess never happened....no

you cant just forget that he signed brashear last year...giving credit to redden who scores a game winning goal is completely different than giving credit to sather who should have never signed brashear in the first play

one guy plays hard and sucks, the other is not good at what he does and doesnt seem to get better
I can totally agree to disagree. But not when you say it's people like me that keep this team in mediocrity just because I thought the guy has had a good 2 months.

I am not saying, nor have I ever said that Sather hasn't made a mess. Stop putting those words in my mouth. He has made a giant mess. He should be fired.

All I am saying is that the guy has had a good two months. Why can't you understand that? I am looking at two months and saying...oh...hey...not bad. THAT IS ALL.

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08-03-2010, 03:24 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Exactly.. the only way to consider Sather's offseason "impressive" would be to compare it to previous years. Compared to what other teams in our division did, as well as Tampa Bay, Vancouver, and Atlanta, it looks pretty average. Which is an improvement for Sather, sadly.

This is also the same sort of mentality that occurs whenever a Rangers fan says the team has been "successful" since the lockout: they are only successful when compared to where they were before the lockout, because winning 2 playoff series wouldn't exactly be considered a monumental success compared to the rest of the league.

This offseason, Sather did what any competent GM would do: re-signed some UFAs & RFAs, got ride of some garbage that never should have been signed, and fulfilled some needs in signing a back-up goalie, secondary scorer, and enforcer (who has a bad contract and would not have been a necessity had Sather not screwed up with Brashear last year - this signing alone makes it pretty difficult to judge this offseason in a vacuum). There are still gaping holes on this team: Where is that physical, crease-clearing defenseman that the team has so desperately needed for years now? Are we ever going to get a legitimate #1 center?
One just got drafted # 10 overall and the other is playing for Boston College.

The real problem is that no one here is patient. The front office may very well have a plan now...but we all need to realize that we are entering Year 2 (maybe 3) of that plan.

Like someone else said...no one wants to sign veterans that would have an immediate impact, yet everyone expects our prospects to be all-stars from the very beginning.

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08-03-2010, 03:24 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
I can totally agree to disagree. But not when you say it's people like me that keep this team in mediocrity just because I thought the guy has had a good 2 months.

I am not saying, nor have I ever said that Sather hasn't made a mess. Stop putting those words in my mouth. He has made a giant mess. He should be fired.

All I am saying is that the guy has had a good two months. Why can't you understand that? I am looking at two months and saying...oh...hey...not bad. THAT IS ALL.
and the reason you are saying "o hey not bad" is because you are comparing this to his past offseason which, instead of doing what he should have done, he signed free agents to extravegent money that has put this team in a hole for years

so even you, who is saying they don't look at past offseasons is comparing this to the rest of them, the difference between you and i is that i do not consider it impressive

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08-03-2010, 03:28 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
and the reason you are saying "o hey not bad" is because you are comparing this to his past offseason which, instead of doing what he should have done, he signed free agents to extravegent money that has put this team in a hole for years

so even you, who is saying they don't look at past offseasons is comparing this to the rest of them, the difference between you and i is that i do not consider it impressive
Actually the reason I am saying "oh hey not bad" is because he made several small, yet quality, moves, one big move (Frolov) and actually seems committed to letting the kids develop.

But then again...you seem to know more about what I am thinking than I do.

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08-03-2010, 03:28 PM
  #339
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I agree with the mentality. But not when he's arguing about Brian ****ing Boyle.
I'm not particularly high on Boyle, either.

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08-03-2010, 03:31 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
One just got drafted # 10 overall and the other is playing for Boston College.

The real problem is that no one here is patient. The front office may very well have a plan now...but we all need to realize that we are entering Year 2 (maybe 3) of that plan.

Like someone else said...no one wants to sign veterans that would have an immediate impact, yet everyone expects our prospects to be all-stars from the very beginning.
Except that he plays LW.

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08-03-2010, 03:36 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
Except that he plays LW.
He was drafted as a center wasn't he?

And if you want to be picky then substitute Derek Stepan into my statement.

My point still remains. We have what could be good pieces in our farm system for the first time in a long time. Everyone needs to be patient.

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08-03-2010, 03:38 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
One just got drafted # 10 overall and the other is playing for Boston College.

The real problem is that no one here is patient. The front office may very well have a plan now...but we all need to realize that we are entering Year 2 (maybe 3) of that plan.

Like someone else said...no one wants to sign veterans that would have an immediate impact, yet everyone expects our prospects to be all-stars from the very beginning.
This has been debated ad naseum in the McIlrath threads, but the Rangers addressed a current need by drafting a guy who probably won't be ready for another 3 years. As I mentioned in my post, a crease-clearing defenseman is something that has been missing for years - Rangers fans have been clamoring for this type of d-man almost every offseason in the lockout, and many fans thought we would get one in 2007 & 2008, but the money was spent elsewhere. I'm willing to be patient, but how can I not be concerned about Lundqvist getting pummeled for the next few years, especially after what transpired this year.

As for Kreider, doesn't he play wing anyway?

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08-03-2010, 03:40 PM
  #343
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This has been debated ad naseum in the McIlrath threads, but the Rangers addressed a current need by drafting a guy who probably won't be ready for another 3 years. As I mentioned in my post, a crease-clearing defenseman is something that has been missing for years - Rangers fans have been clamoring for this type of d-man almost every offseason in the lockout, and many fans thought we would get one in 2007 & 2008, but the money was spent elsewhere. I'm willing to be patient, but how can I not be concerned about Lundqvist getting pummeled for the next few years, especially after what transpired this year.

As for Kreider, doesn't he play wing anyway?
Well Boogaard is here to address the Hank getting pummeled situation.

And like I said about Kreider...he was drafted as a center...mistake on my part. But if you want substitute Stepan in there.

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08-03-2010, 03:45 PM
  #344
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He was drafted as a center wasn't he?

And if you want to be picky then substitute Derek Stepan into my statement.

My point still remains. We have what could be good pieces in our farm system for the first time in a long time. Everyone needs to be patient.
Did you watch either player at all last year? Kreider played LW exclusively at both BC and for Team USA. And, Stepan projects to be a 2nd line center. The organization does not have a bona fide first line center prospect, and hasn't had one since Jean Ratelle. Doug Weight and Marc Savard became 1st line centers, and that's what could happen with Stepan. But, it took both players quite a while to develop into them.

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08-03-2010, 03:50 PM
  #345
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Well Boogaard is here to address the Hank getting pummeled situation.

And like I said about Kreider...he was drafted as a center...mistake on my part. But if you want substitute Stepan in there.
And heres the problem with the prospect kool-aid. Someone asks you where our #1 center is...."Chris Kreider! Oh wait, he doesnt play center? Well stick Derek Stepan in there, he'll be our #1 center instead!"

When reality sets in, its going to become more apparent that our group of prospects have a much better chance of being Brandon Dubinsky/Ryan Callahan clones than Sidney Crosby clones. Is that necessarily a bad thing? Nope. But Im hardpressed to put my "patience" into the hopes that these guys develop into the upper-echelon talent we so desperately lack. Minus the salary cap problems, I could easily see this team being in the same position 2-3 years from now.

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08-03-2010, 04:00 PM
  #346
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And heres the problem with the prospect kool-aid. Someone asks you where our #1 center is...."Chris Kreider! Oh wait, he doesnt play center? Well stick Derek Stepan in there, he'll be our #1 center instead!"

When reality sets in, its going to become more apparent that our group of prospects have a much better chance of being Brandon Dubinsky/Ryan Callahan clones than Sidney Crosby clones. If that necessarily a bad thing? Nope. But Im hardpressed to put my "patience" into the hopes that these guys develop into the upper-echelon talent we so desperately lack. Minus the salary cap problems, I could easily see this team being in the same position 2-3 years from now.
Here's where I'll disagree with you BRB - IMO, the Rangers have two players/prospects with elite abilities - MDZ and Kreider. MDZ has elite on-ice vision and passing skills, and Kreider is an elite skater, with a vast array of skills that could make him a 40 goal scorer someday. The question with Kreider is whether or not he can fully develop those skills. OTOH, I'm not going to oversell players like Stepan, Grachev, Anisimov, McDonagh and now, McIlrath. Stepan looks to be a 2nd line center...anything more would be gravy, and will take a few more years to reach. The top end for McDonagh and McIlrath is likely 2nd pairing D-men. Anisimov is likely either a decent 2nd line center or a very 3rd line center, (sounds like Callahan). Who knows what to expect from Grachev? So for the most part, you're right, most of these prospects are going to be a lot closer to Dubinsky/Callahan/Staal than Crosby

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08-03-2010, 04:13 PM
  #347
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Here's where I'll disagree with you BRB - IMO, the Rangers have two players/prospects with elite abilities - MDZ and Kreider. MDZ has elite on-ice vision and passing skills, and Kreider is an elite skater, with a vast array of skills that could make him a 40 goal scorer someday. The question with Kreider is whether or not he can fully develop those skills. OTOH, I'm not going to oversell players like Stepan, Grachev, Anisimov, McDonagh and now, McIlrath. Stepan looks to be a 2nd line center...anything more would be gravy, and will take a few more years to reach. The top end for McDonagh and McIlrath is likely 2nd pairing D-men. Anisimov is likely either a decent 2nd line center or a very 3rd line center, (sounds like Callahan). Who knows what to expect from Grachev? So for the most part, you're right, most of these prospects are going to be a lot closer to Dubinsky/Callahan/Staal than Crosby
Totally agree. Del Zotto and Krieder are the exceptions right now. Del Zotto has some very special offensive gifts, specifically his vision/passing skills. He looked lost defensively at times last season, but what can you expect from a 19 year making the jump to the NHL. I only saw a couple of Krieder's BC games, but from what I saw he kind of reminds me of Dubinsky on steroids. Hopefully both can develop to the best of their abilities, but again, Im hardpressed to start betting the farm that any of these kids (MDZ and Kreider included) will truly be ELITE level players.

Back to Sather on the subject, his defenders like to point out that we need to be patient and that he has a plan. Why? Because hes held onto his prospects the last few years? So what? every other team in the league does the same thing. Does this qualify him as operating under a plan? The last several offseasons are a testament to the fact that the man is flying by the seat of his pants. And as for this offseason? People really need to ask themselves if Sather showed restraint because he wanted to, or because he had to.

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08-03-2010, 04:17 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
And heres the problem with the prospect kool-aid. Someone asks you where our #1 center is...."Chris Kreider! Oh wait, he doesnt play center? Well stick Derek Stepan in there, he'll be our #1 center instead!"

When reality sets in, its going to become more apparent that our group of prospects have a much better chance of being Brandon Dubinsky/Ryan Callahan clones than Sidney Crosby clones. Is that necessarily a bad thing? Nope. But Im hardpressed to put my "patience" into the hopes that these guys develop into the upper-echelon talent we so desperately lack. Minus the salary cap problems, I could easily see this team being in the same position 2-3 years from now.
yup.

we lack a generational talent. no doubt. we dont have anyone who jumps out at you. and thats not saying we dont have some very good looking prospects. we really do but we dont have "that guy" right now in the system.

we never really had a chance for hall or seguin last draft and while mcilrath's upside makes some people giddy, i happen to think that were still void of any real top of the food chain talent.

tarasenko perhaps was that 1st line sniper we so lack, but he wont be scoring goals for us. i hate to harp on this again but i really feel this guy is going to be very ovechkin/malkin like when hes playing in st lou.

sadly i agree with your take on our general lack of pure difference makers in the pipeline. lots of support/setup types but no one who has that "get you up out of your seat" ability.

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08-03-2010, 04:22 PM
  #349
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Totally agree. Del Zotto and Krieder are the exceptions right now. Del Zotto has some very special offensive gifts, specifically his vision/passing skills. He looked lost defensively at times last season, but what can you expect from a 19 year making the jump to the NHL. I only saw a couple of Krieder's BC games, but from what I saw he kind of reminds me of Dubinsky on steroids. Hopefully both can develop to the best of their abilities, but again, Im hardpressed to start betting the farm that any of these kids (MDZ and Kreider included) will truly be ELITE level players.

Back to Sather on the subject, his defenders like to point out that we need to be patient and that he has a plan. Why? Because hes held onto his prospects the last few years? So what? every other team in the league does the same thing. Does this qualify him as operating under a plan? The last several offseasons are a testament to the fact that the man is flying by the seat of his pants. And as for this offseason? People really need to ask themselves if Sather showed restraint because he wanted to, or because he had to.
I personally cannot look at either of the past two off-seasons as anything resembling being successful. There were questionable moves even among the successes. Frankly, the only off-season I would consider "successful" was 2005, wher he took a chance a gambled on surrounding Jagr with complementary players...mainly Straka and Rucinsky. Remember, Nylander was signed the year before. And, he also brought in Kevin Weekes then. So essentially, he was fortunate Henke was ready to take over right from the start, and Renney knew enough to allow Henke to take the reins. Every successful move has coincided with dreadful moves. He was fortunate in 2006 that Shanahan wanted to play for the Rangers...otherwise, that off-season was a disaster, too.

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08-03-2010, 04:29 PM
  #350
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
I personally cannot look at either of the past two off-seasons as anything resembling being successful. There were questionable moves even among the successes. Frankly, the only off-season I would consider "successful" was 2005, wher he took a chance a gambled on surrounding Jagr with complementary players...mainly Straka and Rucinsky. Remember, Nylander was signed the year before. And, he also brought in Kevin Weekes then. So essentially, he was fortunate Henke was ready to take over right from the start, and Renney knew enough to allow Henke to take the reins. Every successful move has coincided with dreadful moves. He was fortunate in 2006 that Shanahan wanted to play for the Rangers...otherwise, that off-season was a disaster, too.
I still contend that the 2005-2006 team was originally designed to stink, with Jagr being the necessary "star power" to keep ***** in the seats. But a funny thing happened that season, Jagr exploded for a franchise record in points, and a Swedish goaltender named Lundqvist emerged as a star. Thats all it took for Sather to abandon any longterm plans and convince himself he had a potential winner on his hands. Next thing you know Shanahan is coming in, then Gomez and Drury...he just couldnt help himself. At least those teams were fun to watch, its been a complete cluster**** when it comes to personnel ever since Jagr left.

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