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Sather's off-season - impressive

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Old
07-30-2010, 01:50 PM
  #176
RonGreschner
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For all you Boyle haters who expected him to come in here and live up to his first round selection, lets give the guy a break. He played well as a 4th line center and was a vital cog in the sucess of the Rangers penalty killing. He may not live up to the first round hype, but he definetly isn't a Hugh Jessiman. The problem with the NYR's is that Torts is trying to play players in rolls that they aren't suppose to be in. Put Boyle on a team that needs a defensive forward ala Betts he would be that ideal player.

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07-30-2010, 02:04 PM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
if you read the very first post of the thread you're responding to, you'd see that what Sather has accomplished so far along with the implication that more moves will be made; signings, the possiblility that Redden gets waived...

Yes it's proven that THIS OFF SEASON he has been impressive to a
certain degree. And based upon what could still happen that level of "impressiveness" could go up much higher in the eyes of many.

you can't please everyone, so you're not included. oh well.
That "impressiveness" could just as easily be erased with one more bone-headed move. Based on past precedence, I'm not getting my hopes up.

To me, he's "netted" one positive step this summer. He signed Biron for a great deal, but negated it with the Boogaard signing -- which was necessitated due to the fact that he let Orr walk for much less money. That leaves Frolov as the lone positive. I guess we just have differing definitions of "impressive."

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07-30-2010, 06:43 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
What's unfortunate about him being "better" post-lockout is that he's still only average -- and personally, I think "average" is being generous.

It would be somewhat tolerable if he learned from his mistakes, but he doesn't. Every summer he continues to make at least one bad free-agent signing. The guy has had more resources at his disposal than virtually any other GM in the league, and has managed to put together one respectable post-season performance in the last 10 years.

Now, is he entirely at fault? No. Dolan is certainly a major player in this debacle. However, we knew from the get-go that Sather's plan was to buy a championship, and I have no doubt that he would continue down that path had the league rejected a salary cap.

Sather has run out of slack. We've been giving him the benefit of the doubt for a decade and we've gone nowhere. I'm not going to commit to the notion that he's finally getting it until I see some of the rewards. Has our drafting improved? Sure, but so far the majority of our top prospects have yet to prove anything at the professional level. Counting your chickens before they hatch isn't a sign of improvement; It's just optimism. Sather didn't avoid overpaying FA's this summer, he was a victim of his own cap mismanagement. Yet he STILL managed to give Boogard an awful contract.
The guy who mentioned that Sather has been great post lockout was waaaay overboard on his optimism and I saw absolutely no one agree with him so paying attention to that one person's single quote again and again seems silly.

There is a better arguement that he has been average post lockout although I'd say below average but not awful. I don't think boog's contract is awful especially since he can be sent down at no cost to the cap. It's a bad contract but due to the fact that there are outs I can't call it awful. Brashear's was awful. Drury and Redden's were awful. Gomez and Roszi were close to awful but not quite there and he made up for Gomez by getting McD and then replacing with gabs.

I agree with essentially everything you said. Looking at this off season and how it impacts the future it has been a good one so far but taking into account how past bad moves handicapped us it doesn't look nearly as impressive. I've said since before the off-season even if he does everything right and holds his checks I still want him gone b/c I only think he's been so reserved with his checkbook b/c he cornered himself with the cap.

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Old
07-30-2010, 07:01 PM
  #179
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No. I will never give this ****ing guy credit for anything. He's screwed this team up so bad over the past 10 years that I refuse to praise him for not screwing it up worse which is basically what this off-season has been about.

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Old
07-30-2010, 07:06 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonGreschner View Post
For all you Boyle haters who expected him to come in here and live up to his first round selection, lets give the guy a break. He played well as a 4th line center and was a vital cog in the sucess of the Rangers penalty killing. He may not live up to the first round hype, but he definetly isn't a Hugh Jessiman. The problem with the NYR's is that Torts is trying to play players in rolls that they aren't suppose to be in. Put Boyle on a team that needs a defensive forward ala Betts he would be that ideal player.
Boyle doesn't provide anything at even strength... He's average at best defensively... Isn't good at face-offs, isn't good at stick handling or holding onto the puck, and doesn't use his size/frame well against opponents... The guy is just not a talented hockey player.... The reason he does well on the PK is because he can remain relatively stationary (not a strong/agile skater) and use his big frame and long reach to clog shooting and passing lanes... At even strength the guy is a BELOW AVERAGE center and the Rangers can do much better than this guy....


Last edited by wolfgaze: 07-30-2010 at 08:52 PM.
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Old
07-30-2010, 08:11 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
Be fair though. Sather can be criticized a ton and all you want, but you can't then throw out words like probability and luck if he does something right.
I'm the one who says let's wait and see while others here are telling me that Sather is doing a great job without a single bit of evidence to support it. Did you ever notice that Sather is often complimented in the offseason but never during the season when we actually have to watch year after year of total trash?

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Old
07-30-2010, 11:05 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I'm the one who says let's wait and see while others here are telling me that Sather is doing a great job without a single bit of evidence to support it. Did you ever notice that Sather is often complimented in the offseason but never during the season when we actually have to watch year after year of total trash?
100% agree i will hold my final judgment till the season, putting that aside i do like the moves even the boogeyman, but when we are in the middle of the season on the outside looking in then we can say how well glen did

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Old
07-31-2010, 05:26 PM
  #183
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How could you ever give credit to someone who has done what Sather has done in the past, im appaled by this thread.

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07-31-2010, 06:46 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by satrabyk View Post
How could you ever give credit to someone who has done what Sather has done in the past, im appaled by this thread.

Sather has done some good things.

1. Hiring Gordie Clark
2. Gomez Trade
3. Higgins/Kotalik trade
4. Jagr trade.


But most of his trades cover his mistakes. Sather cannot be trusted

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Old
08-01-2010, 12:40 AM
  #185
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made a few decent deals

still dont like the mcilrath and i really feel fowler will be a great player in this league and it will bite us in the ass...another jessiman

boogard i liked until i heard the salary, the fact that were going to be paying over 3 mil to him and brashear is appalling

frolov move was good, prospal is a waste, should've let a kid have his spot

fine with christ and biron

honestly sather doesnt deserve credit for anything the fact that this thread exists shows how poor his tenure has been with the rangers....after the lockout i thought they were moving in the right direction, then sather went right back down his old path of signing guys for more money than they deserve

he needs to be fired and SOON

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Old
08-01-2010, 03:42 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
another jessiman

What basis is there to suggest that?

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Old
08-01-2010, 10:05 AM
  #187
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Nobody's doubting the fact that Sather should be fired. That much is obvious. We are all sick of him.

However, you can't discard his off-season moves this year which have sort of "strayed away from the path" in terms of his usual moves.

The only bad contract he's given out has been Boogard. He definitely rushed that one and made an impact decision, but he'll never admit it. Fortunately, the decision to sign Boogard was a good one, the terms were just off. Boogard is a nasty little machine who will spew venom into our Atlantic Division opponents who have all hit the right end of the pipe in terms of an enforcing presence. Remember, we play these teams 24 times a year.

I don't necessarily agree with re-signing both Prospal AND Christensen, however, they're both on good terms. Frolov as well.

He brought in a presence in MZA that could be a steal. Again, low-risk. None of these moves are high-risk except Boogard. That's what Sather usually gives out. So far, Sather has stuck with his comments about keeping the youth, the 'core'. So give him credit for that.

So long as these player remain on the team: Anisimov, Staal, Dubinsky, Callahan, Gaborik, Lundqvist, MDZ, Girardi and our top prospects - you can really only go up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
What basis is there to suggest that?
Obviously not the ideal situation to compare it to. But if I was a betting man, I'd say he speaks those words because of the fact that McIlrath was an unknown choice and it surprised everyone, including experts at the draft. The pick could arguably be, right now, the worst pick in the first round. Again, that's right now. At the time, people were wondering why the two "big d" were dropping. Tarasenko was available as well. Sather and co. had many options and they chose the high-risk player. In that regard, it's a "Jessiman". For now.

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Old
08-01-2010, 01:20 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post

Obviously not the ideal situation to compare it to. But if I was a betting man, I'd say he speaks those words because of the fact that McIlrath was an unknown choice and it surprised everyone, including experts at the draft. The pick could arguably be, right now, the worst pick in the first round. Again, that's right now. At the time, people were wondering why the two "big d" were dropping. Tarasenko was available as well. Sather and co. had many options and they chose the high-risk player. In that regard, it's a "Jessiman". For now.
It surprised a bunch of hockey fans who think they know everything about how the draft will play out because they read a bunch of draft rankings and mock drafts... Pierre McGuire is not a draft expert either...

Quote:
5. I know some Rangers fans reached for the cyanide when New York took Dylan McIlrath, but a couple of scouts really raved about him. Said one, "A lot of teams were really coy about him; he was a bit of a secret. I think that was on purpose. It was no surprise to us. He might be better than every defenceman in this draft, even Gudbranson."
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/ellio...-thoughts.html

McIlrath has absolutely nothing to do with Hugh Jessiman.... Fans just like to exaggerate and overreact.
They spend so much time reading about players prior to the draft and using the draft rankings and mocks drafts as gospel, for players to be picked out of the order they projected in their head, it immediately creates discord and usually at the expense of the drafted player's potential... He was picked out of the anticipated order so therefore there has to be a flaw in his game that makes this unsuspecting pick a risky gamble.... Fans think they had the whole process figured out so anything unsuspecting usually throws them in a tizzy....

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Old
08-01-2010, 02:00 PM
  #189
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I don't see Marc Staal signed yet and the Rangers under the salary cap. I cannot believe he cannot sign Staal.

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Old
08-01-2010, 03:00 PM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AXN View Post
I don't see Marc Staal signed yet and the Rangers under the salary cap. I cannot believe he cannot sign Staal.
I don't think it has anything to do with 'can not'.

Hopefully Sather uses the leverage the Rangers have to get Staal signed as long as possible for the best possible price.

It doesn't do the Rangers any good to sign Staal quickly for the wrong length or amount so patience will play an important role I think.

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Old
08-01-2010, 05:18 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
It surprised a bunch of hockey fans who think they know everything about how the draft will play out because they read a bunch of draft rankings and mock drafts... Pierre McGuire is not a draft expert either...



http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/ellio...-thoughts.html

McIlrath has absolutely nothing to do with Hugh Jessiman.... Fans just like to exaggerate and overreact.
They spend so much time reading about players prior to the draft and using the draft rankings and mocks drafts as gospel, for players to be picked out of the order they projected in their head, it immediately creates discord and usually at the expense of the drafted player's potential... He was picked out of the anticipated order so therefore there has to be a flaw in his game that makes this unsuspecting pick a risky gamble.... Fans think they had the whole process figured out so anything unsuspecting usually throws them in a tizzy....
no need to bash bud

were all fans here...maybe he isnt another jessiman and i jumped the gun as i do expect him to at least get some playing time in the NHL

What i was more comparing it to (sorry i didnt elaborate) is the fact that we picked jessiman and then had to watch numerous first round picks develop into solid players (i.e. Seabrook, Parise, Getzlaf, Brown, Richards...etc

my point is that i feel mcilrath will not be an above average nhl'er (obviously im hoping for the best) and that a fair amount of the players picked behind him will develop into higher level players...such as fowler, gormley, tarasenko etc)

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08-01-2010, 07:54 PM
  #192
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This is a good thread for the end of March.

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08-01-2010, 10:42 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by free0717 View Post
Sather has done some good things.

1. Hiring Gordie Clark
2. Gomez Trade
3. Higgins/Kotalik trade
4. Jagr trade.
Not to nitpick but although freeing up cash was important in trading Gomez - and I know a lot of people grew tired of Gomez' less serious demeanor - but I have a hard time calling that trade a good one based on the actual players moved.

Gomez would still be the best center on the Rangers a full year later and Higgins was a disaster. McDonagh should be an NHL player but I see him as a 2nd pair Dman, basically, a lesser-smaller Staal and I'm not convinced Gomez for McD is a very good trade, as far as talent goes.

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08-02-2010, 12:09 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Chief View Post
Not to nitpick but although freeing up cash was important in trading Gomez - and I know a lot of people grew tired of Gomez' less serious demeanor - but I have a hard time calling that trade a good one based on the actual players moved.

Gomez would still be the best center on the Rangers a full year later and Higgins was a disaster. McDonagh should be an NHL player but I see him as a 2nd pair Dman, basically, a lesser-smaller Staal and I'm not convinced Gomez for McD is a very good trade, as far as talent goes.
the real trade was gomez for gaborik with mcdonagh and higgins as bonuses

i think we would all agree that was a great trade

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08-02-2010, 12:59 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
the real trade was gomez for gaborik with mcdonagh and higgins as bonuses

i think we would all agree that was a great trade
It was dependent on the risk of another huge contract. Luckily year 1 that big contract panned out...to be continued. Still Gabs is and always has been much better than Gomez overall. With our cap desperation I'd take the trade everytime.

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08-02-2010, 03:32 AM
  #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
no need to bash bud

were all fans here...maybe he isnt another jessiman and i jumped the gun as i do expect him to at least get some playing time in the NHL

What i was more comparing it to (sorry i didnt elaborate) is the fact that we picked jessiman and then had to watch numerous first round picks develop into solid players (i.e. Seabrook, Parise, Getzlaf, Brown, Richards...etc

my point is that i feel mcilrath will not be an above average nhl'er (obviously im hoping for the best) and that a fair amount of the players picked behind him will develop into higher level players...such as fowler, gormley, tarasenko etc)
Dude have you even seen Fowler play? He plays a very soft game. The last thing we needed was another d-man who doesn't hit people. We needed a bruiser on the backend and that is exactly what we got. And to put a cap on an 18 year old prospect's potential a month after he got drafted is insane. The kid is one of the most feared d-men in the WHL...that means something.

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08-02-2010, 08:05 AM
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief View Post
Not to nitpick but although freeing up cash was important in trading Gomez - and I know a lot of people grew tired of Gomez' less serious demeanor - but I have a hard time calling that trade a good one based on the actual players moved.

Gomez would still be the best center on the Rangers a full year later and Higgins was a disaster. McDonagh should be an NHL player but I see him as a 2nd pair Dman, basically, a lesser-smaller Staal and I'm not convinced Gomez for McD is a very good trade, as far as talent goes.
I agree witht he general opinion of this post, however, without the gomez trade, we have no way of obtaining Gaborik as that Gomez contract being deducted from the ledger afforded us the ability and opportunity to sign Gaborik.

Based on the deal alone, depending on how McD and Valentenko do, this sould still work out to be a very good trade for the Rangers based on the deal itself.

When you take the other components into consideration, the Rangers come out in MUCH better shape than they were in prior to the deal itself.

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Old
08-02-2010, 08:24 AM
  #198
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Sather cleans up two more messes of his own making...THE IMPRESSIVE OFF-SEASON CONTINUES!!!!

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08-02-2010, 08:38 AM
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
Sather cleans up two more messes of his own making...THE IMPRESSIVE OFF-SEASON CONTINUES!!!!
Now if we could just get him to stop making messes in the first place.

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08-02-2010, 08:42 AM
  #200
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Now if we could just get him to stop making messes in the first place.
I do hope you were able to detect the sarcasm in my post...anyway, why should he stop making messes, it's much more exciting for the fanbase this way. Look at all the praise he's getting on this board. I can hardly wait for the mid-season Christensen/Boogaard deal! He's the arsonist who set fires so he can put them out and be treated like a hero.

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