HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Notices

Leafs Salaries, Out of Wack

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-28-2010, 02:53 PM
  #26
MoreGore
Registered User
 
MoreGore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,087
vCash: 500
I admit that I am not hockey Guru, and the guys that I placed on the list were just some that I thought seemed to be overpaid given their level of play. Some might be ok, and there might be others that are bad too.

All teams need to manage their cap space, and IMO the Leafs have done a very poor job of it.

Clearly the Leafs are not a contender, and it is likely that they will miss the playoffs this year as well, yet they are paying top dollar.

The logical conclusion is that they are paying too much for these guys. I could easily provide a list of somewhat comparible players...Here are that people will recognize

*Volchenkov 4.0
=Regin RFA 1.5?
*Kuba 3.7
Cowen 1.295
=Kelly 2.125
Foligno 1.2
-----------------------------------
Total 13.82

The Original list
Komisarek 4.5
=Bozak 3.725 (a lot in bonuses)
Finger 3.5
*Schenn 2.975 (a lot in bonuses)
=Grabovski 2.9
*Kulemin 2.350
-----------------------
Total 19.95

* Players I think are better, = for the ones I think are comparable in value

IMO the problem with poor cap managment is that it handicaps the GM in being able to imporve the team, and it makes signing players to good (cap wise) contracts more difficult.

MoreGore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 03:12 PM
  #27
topched
Registered User
 
topched's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,555
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreGore View Post
*Volchenkov 4.0
=Regin RFA 1.5?
*Kuba 3.7
Cowen 1.295
=Kelly 2.125
Foligno 1.2
-----------------------------------
Total 13.82

The Original list
Komisarek 4.5
=Bozak 3.725 (a lot in bonuses)
Finger 3.5
*Schenn 2.975 (a lot in bonuses)
=Grabovski 2.9
*Kulemin 2.350
-----------------------
Total 19.95

* Players I think are better, = for the ones I think are comparable in value

IMO the problem with poor cap managment is that it handicaps the GM in being able to imporve the team, and it makes signing players to good (cap wise) contracts more difficult.
I dont think Volchenkov is better than Komisarek... despite disagreeing with you Volchenkov hit the FA market this year and fetched 4.25 at a longer term.. not much different from Komisarek.

Finger and Kuba I think is irrelevant. This contract definitely proves your point but everyone on these boards as well as every hockey analyst knows that he is overpaid.

And im sorry but Regin and Bozak are NOT the same player. Bozak had the same point totals in half the games regin did. Salary is obviously going to be different.

Same for Chris Kelly. The guy is not in the same league as grabovski, he averages 35points a season and not even 20 goals. Grabovski is far and away a better player. I'll admit hes overpaid at 2.9 mill but this is a bad comparison.

topched is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 03:19 PM
  #28
Rare Jewel
Patience
 
Rare Jewel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Leaf Land
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,582
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzinc View Post
this shows the absolute ineptitude of burke way way overpaying for what is on this team

paying big money makes sense ONLY if getting quality producers for that cash
Name me a team that hasn't overpayed in anyway for FA'S.

Rare Jewel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 03:21 PM
  #29
Brown Dog
Registered User
 
Brown Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,221
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 40 Bay View Post
Name me a team that hasn't overpayed for FA'S.
So true. I guess the complaint is that a team built primarily with free agents is going to get less bang for their buck.

Brown Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 03:24 PM
  #30
Rare Jewel
Patience
 
Rare Jewel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Leaf Land
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,582
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Dog View Post
So true. I guess the complaint is that a team built primarily with free agents is going to get less bang for their buck.
There's no complaint, The guy is a troll who likes to stir **** up.

Rare Jewel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 03:26 PM
  #31
embracedbias
Registered User
 
embracedbias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Waterloo
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,917
vCash: 500
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you Calgary:

Langkow -> $4.5 million
Stajan -> $3.5 million
Hagman -> $3 million
Jokinen -> $3 million
Kotalik -> $3 million
Bouwmeester -> $6.68 million
Sarich -> $3.6 million
Staios -> $2.7 million

Taadaaa

embracedbias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 03:30 PM
  #32
DirtyDion03
**** Brooklyn
 
DirtyDion03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,217
vCash: 166
Can't complain when you see those numbers.

And just wait till they have to re-sign Ian White.

DirtyDion03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 03:35 PM
  #33
Lightsol
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,760
vCash: 500
I know they waived Kotalik, but they didn't buy him out/bury him in the minors?

Lightsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 03:38 PM
  #34
seanlinden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,012
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreGore View Post
Just look at their lineup and their cap hits:
Komisarek 4.5
Bozak 3.725 (a lot in bonuses)
Finger 3.5
Schenn 2.975 (a lot in bonuses)
Grabovski 2.9
Kulemin 2.350
Komisarek = This was the price to sign him. He can be an elite shutdown guy when on his game and he turned down larger offers (most notably with the Islanders) to sign with Toronto. Obviously a comparable is Volchenkov at $4.25, but it was a different market.

Bozak & Schenn = They'd have to win major league awards to earn more than $1.7m, and actual guaranteed salary is less than $900k. This is/was the price to sign a highly coveted college free agent and 5th overall pick.

Finger = Paid based on potential. He was a solid #4 in his first year in Colorado and looked like he had real shutdown potential. Showed glimpses of that in his first year in Toronto, but then crapped the bed when the Leafs brought in a ton of talent above him.

Grabovski = Again paid on potential. 20 goals and 28 assists in his rookie year in only 78 games. Most guys who do that elevate in their sophmore year and $3m x 3 years for a guy who has the talent level to score 60-70 was a good deal.

Kulemin = Again a little bit paid on potential. This was simply also the price required to sign him. How could we have better spent $2.3m?

seanlinden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 05:27 PM
  #35
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 59,791
vCash: 500
Toronto is one of the youngest Teams.

With that also comes the least experience of proven players, their Top 2 centers Bozak and Kadri have 38 NHL games combined between them..

With youth and inexperience usually comes cheaper contracts and better Cap situations..

Leafs however have one of the highest NHL salaries, almost spending to the near Cap ceiling.

Anyone else not see the problem here, of care to explain why this situation exists?

.


Last edited by Mess: 07-28-2010 at 09:13 PM.
Mess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 05:37 PM
  #36
TOG26
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,470
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Toronto is one of the youngest Teams.

With that also comes the least experience of proven players, their Top 2 centers Bozak and Kadri have 38 NHL games combined between them..

With youth and inexperience usually comes cheaper contracts and better Cap situations..

Leafs however have one of the highest NHL salaries however almost spending near the Cap ceiling.

Anyone else not see the problem here, of care to explain why this situation exists?
Cliff Fletcher giving Finger 3.5per doesn't help matters.

Other then that, we have 3 proven high quality defensemen who have reached FA status in their careers, 1 defenseman who has the most goals by defensemen since the lockout and signed a big contract. A Conn Smythe goalie who has a larger contract. A couple of rookies with big potential bonus. Think that about covers it.

All of that being known as Burke locking in what he wants to be the core of his team into contracts so he can build around them.


Last edited by TOG26: 07-28-2010 at 05:46 PM.
TOG26 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 05:41 PM
  #37
Nasty Nazem
The North Remembers
 
Nasty Nazem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In my house... duh!
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,266
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Toronto is one of the youngest Teams.

With that also comes the least experience of proven players, their Top 2 centers Bozak and Kadri have 38 NHL games combined between them..

With youth and inexperience usually comes cheaper contracts and better Cap situations..

Leafs however have one of the highest NHL salaries however almost spending near the Cap ceiling.

Anyone else not see the problem here, of care to explain why this situation exists?
- Cap penalty of 1.4, Tucker buyout of 1, Finger stupid 3.5 contract and Giguere 6 mil contract. That's an extra 11.9 mil cap space... which is pretty good.

- Assuming Bozak gets around 50 points, his next contract cap hit would lower than it currently is. Schenn won't get 3 either unless he has a great season.

- Kaberle could be traded for a top 6 forward and depending on who you get, you could save some money.

- Say Leafs acquire Savard in a soft deal, Grabo 2.9 mil could be gone

Overall... Leafs will TONS of cap space next year especially if the salary cap increases.

Nasty Nazem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 05:48 PM
  #38
ACC1224
Burke was right.
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 28,154
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Toronto is one of the youngest Teams.

With that also comes the least experience of proven players, their Top 2 centers Bozak and Kadri have 38 NHL games combined between them..

With youth and inexperience usually comes cheaper contracts and better Cap situations..

Leafs however have one of the highest NHL salaries however almost spending near the Cap ceiling.

Anyone else not see the problem here, of care to explain why this situation exists?
Nope, no problem to see however I'm sure you do however maybe of care to explain it?

ACC1224 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 05:53 PM
  #39
Thrillingbroom
Registered User
 
Thrillingbroom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,797
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightsol View Post
I know they waived Kotalik, but they didn't buy him out/bury him in the minors?
I think they did it just to let him know he wasn't wanted anymore and to start looking for somewhere to play in Europe. There have been reports of him signing in the KHL.

Thrillingbroom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 05:55 PM
  #40
Belak Attack
:walrus:
 
Belak Attack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto, Canadia.
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,105
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Belak Attack
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Toronto is one of the youngest Teams.

With that also comes the least experience of proven players, their Top 2 centers Bozak and Kadri have 38 NHL games combined between them..

With youth and inexperience usually comes cheaper contracts and better Cap situations..

Leafs however have one of the highest NHL salaries however almost spending near the Cap ceiling.

Anyone else not see the problem here, of care to explain why this situation exists?
Not enough homegrown talent/drafted players/too many UFA signings.

Belak Attack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 06:23 PM
  #41
Loso
Registered User
 
Loso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Armstrong at 3 mill is ~.5-.75 more than it should be

Loso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 06:34 PM
  #42
FireEverybody*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,675
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
With youth and inexperience usually comes cheaper contracts and better Cap situations..

Leafs however have one of the highest NHL salaries however almost spending near the Cap ceiling.

Anyone else not see the problem here, of care to explain why this situation exists?
As Nasty Nazem pointed out Tucker , giggy, finger add up to close to 12m , on top of that we obviously have 1 to many top 6 defense man. take off $3,800,000 - $4,500,000 and we have lots of room for a 2 top 6 forwards + maybe even a decent 3rd line center.

People complaining about Army @ 3m are crazy. He is getting 3m from pretty much any team that is looking for what he brings.

FireEverybody* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 06:52 PM
  #43
MoreGore
Registered User
 
MoreGore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,087
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topched View Post
I dont think Volchenkov is better than Komisarek... despite disagreeing with you Volchenkov hit the FA market this year and fetched 4.25 at a longer term.. not much different from Komisarek.

Finger and Kuba I think is irrelevant. This contract definitely proves your point but everyone on these boards as well as every hockey analyst knows that he is overpaid.

And im sorry but Regin and Bozak are NOT the same player. Bozak had the same point totals in half the games regin did. Salary is obviously going to be different.

Same for Chris Kelly. The guy is not in the same league as grabovski, he averages 35points a season and not even 20 goals. Grabovski is far and away a better player. I'll admit hes overpaid at 2.9 mill but this is a bad comparison.
Sorry to rock your boat topsced, but Komisarek is not in the same league, so to speak as Volchenkov. Volchenkov is as reliable a shut down Dman as exists. Komisarek had one really good year, which was 3 years ago. His last year in Montreal he was very mediocre, and last year he was injured (no fault of his own)

Regin and Bozak are comparable. Both should bag 40-60 points. And Grabovski can't hold a candle to Kelly. Sure he has some upside, but why show it when you get 3 mill for being inconsistent. Grabs best year was likely better than Kelly's, but the other years, Kelly is rock solid as a 3rd line checker pker can be.

MoreGore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 07:12 PM
  #44
EazyB97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 27,919
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreGore View Post
Regin and Bozak are comparable. Both should bag 40-60 points. And Grabovski can't hold a candle to Kelly. Sure he has some upside, but why show it when you get 3 mill for being inconsistent. Grabs best year was likely better than Kelly's, but the other years, Kelly is rock solid as a 3rd line checker pker can be.
If Regin and Bozak are comparable, why was Bozak so much better? Kelly is a checking line player, Grabovski is a scoring line player. You're better off comparing Kelly to Kulemin and Grabovski to Fisher. It kind've kills your point though, since Fisher makes $1.3 million more than Grabo and Kelly/Kulemin make similar money. You could also use the money Bozak and Schenn are guaranteed, but again, that kills your point. Neither is likely to hit all of their bonuses (if they do they are worth the contracts) and there is the Bonus Cushion to help teams handle contracts like these.

A big problem with the Leafs is alot of players are a little overpaid, so picking a handful of players and blaming them doesn't work. Giggy and Finger are overpaid by a fair bit, after than you're looking at 500k tops for most.

EazyB97 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 07:16 PM
  #45
Belak Attack
:walrus:
 
Belak Attack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto, Canadia.
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,105
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Belak Attack
Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
If Regin and Bozak are comparable, why was Bozak so much better? Kelly is a checking line player, Grabovski is a scoring line player. You're better off comparing Kelly to Kulemin and Grabovski to Fisher. It kind've kills your point though, since Fisher makes $1.3 million more than Grabo and Kelly/Kulemin make similar money. You could also use the money Bozak and Schenn are guaranteed, but again, that kills your point. Neither is likely to hit all of their bonuses (if they do they are worth the contracts) and there is the Bonus Cushion to help teams handle contracts like these.

A big problem with the Leafs is alot of players are a little overpaid, so picking a handful of players and blaming them doesn't work. Giggy and Finger are overpaid by a fair bit, after than you're looking at 500k tops for most.
Regin was played on the bottom 2 lines for most of the season. He was dynamite on the top line at the end of the season, and into the playoffs. They're comparable. Both should have great seasons next year. Regin is a stud.

Belak Attack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 07:17 PM
  #46
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Bozak is not a penny overpaid. 25 teams wanted the guy. He was a very good young prospect who was had for only money. There was a huge bidding war. More than any veteren UFA's get.

RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 07:19 PM
  #47
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belak Attack View Post
He might be a little bit overpaid, but he still does his job well. He eats a ton of minutes.
I was pretty shocked the Leafs didn't have to pay over 4 million for Beauchemin. He's really underpaid if anything at 3.8 million per.

RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 07:21 PM
  #48
Belak Attack
:walrus:
 
Belak Attack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto, Canadia.
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,105
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Belak Attack
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
I was pretty shocked the Leafs didn't have to pay over 4 million for Beauchemin. He's really underpaid if anything at 3.8 million per.
He will be only if he plays up to par.

Belak Attack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 07:21 PM
  #49
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreGore View Post
I admit that I am not hockey Guru, and the guys that I placed on the list were just some that I thought seemed to be overpaid given their level of play. Some might be ok, and there might be others that are bad too.

All teams need to manage their cap space, and IMO the Leafs have done a very poor job of it.
How did you come up with that crap?

The Leafs only have three players with NTC's and two of them are limited ones.

There is no reason for the cap to stop Burke from doing anything he wants to.

mooseOAK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2010, 07:40 PM
  #50
Brown Dog
Registered User
 
Brown Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,221
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belak Attack View Post
He will be only if he plays up to par.
True. If Beauch plays up to his ability, $3.8 million is money well spent. But I was disappointed with his play last year. I think he's a rarely discussed key player for the Leafs this coming year. A bounceback season from him could go a long way.

Brown Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:28 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.