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Jacques Martin Turns Down Rangers

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05-26-2004, 04:04 AM
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NYblades
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Jacques Martin Turns Down Rangers

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05-26-2004, 06:06 AM
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i sincerely hope this was true, because i really think the rangers job is at least as every bit intriguing as the coyotes job. which gives me hope that if the senators don't hire him then quenneville can become the front runner for us.

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05-26-2004, 06:58 AM
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Martin would have been perfect for this job, but with him out of the picture, I hope Paul Maurice becomes the new coach. I think he's going to be a very good coach in the NHL. I'm not sure Quenneville is the right guy. He's had a veteran team in St. Louis for a long time. Can he mold youth?

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05-26-2004, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyCaptain11
i sincerely hope this was true, because i really think the rangers job is at least as every bit intriguing as the coyotes job. which gives me hope that if the senators don't hire him then quenneville can become the front runner for us.

The Rangers' job might be intriguing but its not a better job than the Cats job is right now. The Cats are poised to make the playoffs next season. The Rangers, not so much.

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05-26-2004, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlyRegardedRookie
Martin would have been perfect for this job, but with him out of the picture, I hope Paul Maurice becomes the new coach. I think he's going to be a very good coach in the NHL. I'm not sure Quenneville is the right guy. He's had a veteran team in St. Louis for a long time. Can he mold youth?

Yea I totally agree. Maurice has proven that he is good with youth. Look at the way Erik Cole turned into a player under him, and Vasicek played well under him as well. When Maurice has coached in Carolina, his team was built with youth and grit, although they had some vets who played well like Francis, Ward, etc. And say if Maurice is coach, id like Graves as one of our assistants. Graves and Maurice had a history in the past. Graves would help this team prolly on the PP, on the right way to stand in front of the net. Although Id like McGill as coach as well.

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05-26-2004, 08:02 AM
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Once again, according to this article, Sather fails to get his man. I wanted Martin for the job. However, I'm not nearly as upset as I was when Slats fell asleep during the Hitchcock sweepstakes. I feel there are a lot of quality coaches left, including our very own McGill, so the pickings aren't nearly as slim as seasons prior. But, I am more than tired of him not being able to tab the top flight coach, when one becomes available. It seems he plays hardball with everyone except has-been superstars.

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05-26-2004, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by HighlyRegardedRookie
Martin would have been perfect for this job, but with him out of the picture, I hope Paul Maurice becomes the new coach. I think he's going to be a very good coach in the NHL. I'm not sure Quenneville is the right guy. He's had a veteran team in St. Louis for a long time. Can he mold youth?

I'm not convinced that the Martin was the right guy. He had an immensely talented team in Ottawa and underachieved on more than one occasion. He strikes me as a Roger Neilson type coach; a good coach who can take a team and make them a good team but then needs someone else to get them to next level.

I don't see the Rangers getting Q either. He will mostly likely get the Ottawa job I would think.

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05-26-2004, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Shadowtron
Once again, according to this article, Sather fails to get his man.
Pretty frightening that the last person to accept a job as Ranger head coach was Trottier. It's a commentary on what he's done to the organization. You'd think that finally, this job would have some appeal for an established coach who really wants to build something from the ground up. Unfortunately, even that's not enough to compensate for the headache of working under Sather.

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05-26-2004, 08:20 AM
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John Paddock, Tom Renney would be ideal. I would "settle" for maurice. But we all know slats is going to make or break the team

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05-26-2004, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
The Rangers' job might be intriguing but its not a better job than the Cats job is right now. The Cats are poised to make the playoffs next season. The Rangers, not so much.
Agreed. Especially if you're thinking that a new CBA might limit a perceived advantage the Rangers have ($$$$$).

Florida already has some very nice building blocks in place: Luongo, Bouwmeester, Horton, Weiss, Jokinen.

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05-26-2004, 08:36 AM
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Agreed. Especially if you're thinking that a new CBA might limit a perceived advantage the Rangers have ($$$$$).

Florida already has some very nice building blocks in place: Luongo, Bouwmeester, Horton, Weiss, Jokinen.

And I still believe that Sather is a factor. He has run out two coaches and not faired much better as coach himself. And he's still here. What coach would look at that as a positive?


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05-26-2004, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
And I still believe that Sather is a factor. He has run out two coaches and not faired much better as coach himself. And he's still here.
True.

Apparently Martin and Keenan are pretty tight and have been so for quite some time.

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05-26-2004, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
True.

Apparently Martin and Keenan are pretty tight and have been so for quite some time.
They attend St.Lawrence at the same time and have remained long time friends

When Mike Keenan was in Chicago,Jacques Martin was an assistant under Keenan

According the Florida media,Martin would only take the Panther job if Keenan was their GM

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05-26-2004, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
Unfortunately, even that's not enough to compensate for the headache of working under Sather.
I really think that that is the biggest factor. It cannot be underestimated how much of an negative effect it is. It is well known that Sather is not much liked around the NHL, and his actions since he took over, have pretty much made it impossible to hire an experienced coach, especially when there are other options. I think that McGill can wind up being the coach, not so much becuase Sather may or may not want him, but because he may have no other choice. And sorry people, but Renney is no choice at all.
I would not be surprised if Sather saves himself and the organization any further embarassment and just names McGill his next coach. I do not think it would reflect all that well on him if he were to offer a job to Q, just to be turned down again.
And Maurice is not much of a choice either. Yes, he coached for a long time, but he basically had the one good year and that was it. Carolina has never been a factor under him.
McGill is probably the next coach.

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05-26-2004, 09:12 AM
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Sather always get's too much blame on this. Messier never works well with coaches and already it seems to be his call on if he is coming back.

Established coaches want to do everything their way and be the leader. They are not going to come to the Rangers and negotiate/compromise around Messier's concept of leadership or what he feels has to be his role on a team.

And there is Sather upstairs, a man who already feels Messier is enough of a coach that he offered him the job a few years ago.


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05-26-2004, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by NYIsles1
Sather always get's too much blame on this. Messier never works well with coaches and already it seems to be his call on if he is coming back.
I don't necessarily agree with that assessment, but even if I did, I'd simply ask you who it is that allows Messier to make personnel decisions for the team.

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05-26-2004, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by NYIsles1
Sather always get's too much blame on this. Messier never works well with coaches and already it seems to be his call on if he is coming back.

Established coaches want to do everything their way and be the leader. They are not going to come to the Rangers and negotiate/compromise around Messier's concept of leadership or what he feels has to be his role on a team.

And there is Sather upstairs, a man who already feels Messier is enough of a coach that he offered him the job a few years ago.


I do not know if you or anyone else read that "unauthorized" biography about Messier titled Slaying the Dragons or Dragon slayer or something to that effect. Anyway, there was on part in it that really stuck in my head. It was the season immediately following the Cup win. Campbell was coach and, according to this book, had absolutely no control over Messier. It's funny, really. Mess would just jump out on the ice whether Campbell wanted him to or not. Everyone else was coached, but Messier did whatever he wanted. Campbell would put a line out for a key face-off, but if Messier felt he was better suited for the situation, he'd jump over the boards and take the face-off without any prompting from his coach. When I read that I knew he was a very dangerous man to have on the team. For all his leadership skills, the man really knows how to hurt a team.

However, you cannot blame him alone. There are 20 other guys on the ice that did not get it done this year. Slats gets the blame because he is the one that put it all together. He's tried for four years, and each time he's failed. He put the team together with reckless abandon. While teams like Calgary and Tampa were taking chance on players like Iginla and St. Louis, Slats was busy signing Zdeno Cigar and trading for Poti.

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05-26-2004, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYIsles1
Sather always get's too much blame on this. Messier never works well with coaches and already it seems to be his call on if he is coming back.

Established coaches want to do everything their way and be the leader. They are not going to come to the Rangers and negotiate/compromise around Messier's concept of leadership or what he feels has to be his role on a team.

And there is Sather upstairs, a man who already feels Messier is enough of a coach that he offered him the job a few years ago.
You contradict yourself. You say that Sather gets too much blame and that the blame should go to Messier. Who exactly brought Messier back and who is allowing him to write his own check whenever he feels like it? That would be Sather.

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05-26-2004, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
The Rangers' job might be intriguing but its not a better job than the Cats job is right now. The Cats are poised to make the playoffs next season. The Rangers, not so much.
oh i agree that the rangers job is not as good as the panthers, i never said it was. what i did say was it was as good, if not better than, the COYOTES job. and IF (big if right now) the senators decide to hire someone other than Coach Q, then i would hope that the rangers are next on his list, especially since they spent so much time with him when he was preparing for the World Championships.


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05-26-2004, 01:38 PM
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It's probably in vain, but I hope some of this is percolating up to Dolan. How many potential coaches can publically embarrass this team by turning down jobs before Jimmy starts looking for the reason why. Robinson? Schoenfeld? Martin? Anybody else I'm not remembering?

It's black eye after black eye for the Rangers under Sather where coaches are concerned. Factor into that mix the performance of the team itself with him as GM. Where were Tampa and Calgary four years ago when Sather took over the Rangers? Where was San Jose just last year? I don't want to hear from Dolan or anyone else that Sather hasn't had enough time. His tenure as GM has been an utter failure.

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05-26-2004, 01:44 PM
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Yea I totally agree. Maurice has proven that he is good with youth. Look at the way Erik Cole turned into a player under him, and Vasicek played well under him as well. When Maurice has coached in Carolina, his team was built with youth and grit, although they had some vets who played well like Francis, Ward, etc. And say if Maurice is coach, id like Graves as one of our assistants. Graves and Maurice had a history in the past. Graves would help this team prolly on the PP, on the right way to stand in front of the net. Although Id like McGill as coach as well.

I disagree, during Maurice's long tenure he did not develop that many young players.

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05-26-2004, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by dedalus
It's probably in vain, but I hope some of this is percolating up to Dolan. How many potential coaches can publically embarrass this team by turning down jobs before Jimmy starts looking for the reason why. Robinson? Schoenfeld? Martin? Anybody else I'm not remembering?

It's black eye after black eye for the Rangers under Sather where coaches are concerned. Factor into that mix the performance of the team itself with him as GM. Where were Tampa and Calgary four years ago when Sather took over the Rangers? Where was San Jose just last year? I don't want to hear from Dolan or anyone else that Sather hasn't had enough time. His tenure as GM has been an utter failure.

Yeah, it's actually pretty sickening. The Rangers were lucky enough to be in search of a coach around the time quality coaches were/are available (Hitchcock, Burns, Martin, Q, etc.) and Slats has dropped the ball every time. He has to be able to sell this team, man. It's his product and he has to be able to convince the customer, in thise case the coach, to buy into it. While I'm not fuming over Martin's decision, I am a tad disappointed. Slats is incapable of closing quality deals and this team has no future as long as it's in his hands.

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05-26-2004, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Shadowtron
He has to be able to sell this team, man. It's his product and he has to be able to convince the customer, in thise case the coach, to buy into it.
There's nothing to sell. Anybody with eyes to see understands that the emperor has no clothes.

The Rangers are a poorly constructed team built around an outdated hockey style and run by a man who insists on playing a role in the everyday coaching of it - even though that man has been a dismal failure in his player acquisitions, his coaching choices, and his philosophy.

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05-26-2004, 02:47 PM
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I disagree, during Maurice's long tenure he did not develop that many young players.
Agreed. What has Paul Maurice ever done except ride the coat tails of Arturs Irbe one year? His track record for such a long tenure absolutely sucks. I'd take McGill in a heartbeat over him, and I don't even WANT McGill.

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05-26-2004, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by dedalus
Agreed. What has Paul Maurice ever done except ride the coat tails of Arturs Irbe one year? His track record for such a long tenure absolutely sucks. I'd take McGill in a heartbeat over him, and I don't even WANT McGill.
I just looked at Carolina's draft record for the past 7 years

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr000979.html


It has got to be the worst of any other team and their system is very barren.

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