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3 Habs under the knife

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Old
05-27-2004, 12:24 PM
  #1
Marc the Habs Fan
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3 Habs under the knife

http://www2.canoe.com/sports/nouvell...27-083203.html

translation:

It's been calm since the habs were eliminated on April 29th. Claude Julien still hasn't signed his contract, but that should come soon.

We have learned that Patrice Brisebois was operated May 15th for a tear in the abdominal area. The surgery was performed by 2 specialists in this domain, doctors Ray Brown and David Mulder.

We know that the veteran defenceman played with this injury for most of the year.

Sheldon Souray, went to Duke University in North Carolina on the 18th to have exploratory surgery on his left wrist.

Doctor James Urbanyuk took out cartilage that harmed the movements of Souray's wrist.

Finally, centre Steve Begin will be operated on his left shoulder June 2nd by doctor Eric Lenczner.


--------------------

There ya go...guess that explains Souray's awful post-season and it's a credit to Breezy that he had such a good season playing with that injury.

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05-27-2004, 01:08 PM
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Do you know that Patrice Brisebois' injury is the same that took Forsberg out for many games. Brisebois was playing (and pretty well imo) in the playoffs with that. It's also known that most people couldn't even move their wrist with the injuries that Souray had. Souray wasn't a fluke, he was really that good. But the injury killed him at the end of the season. Those injuries are career threatening! Don't forget that!

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05-27-2004, 01:19 PM
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Souray will still make a HUGE impact to our chances next year... But the poor guy needs to have a completely healthy season for a change (or at least relatively)...
This guy can be our big hulking defenceman, he has the chip, the shot, and the physical nastiness to be easily the most volatile defenceman on our team, but there are 2 other guys chasing him with HUGE talent. Markov and Hainsey... Both guys have the potential to be better if Souray is not entirely healthy for the upcoming seasons... He'd still make a great # 3... Imagine, 3 guys from the LD that can change the game, and all are different style of players. I Like It

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05-27-2004, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan

There ya go...guess that explains Souray's awful post-season and it's a credit to Breezy that he had such a good season playing with that injury.
Then the problem is not Souray but Julien to not change his team due to this injury. IF that's the case, Claude Julien is not a good coach & won't ever be an elite coach.

I said IF remember !!!!

Let me explain myself by saying that rarely you will see a player saying ''coach, I know I got a wrist problem & that's why I want you to bench me''. He will always be there for the team. Souray, we all know this, is a warrior & he probably thought he still could help the team.

In that matter it's to the coach, to view/check if the guy could help the team or not. Souray was getting 150% ice time during the whole playoff.

It's not a JULIEN BASHING thread but I do think that he did a good job with the team in the regular season ''overall'' but I dont think he's the kind of coach that would guide his players to the HOLY GRAIL.

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05-27-2004, 02:03 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian Fan
Then the problem is not Souray but Julien to not change his team due to this injury. IF that's the case, Claude Julien is not a good coach & won't ever be an elite coach.
So he should have played Dykhuis instead?

Looking around the league and hearing about all the DMarkovs and Johnssons and Sundin and Koivu and Roenick... and probably lots of others... playing injured in the playoffs in not exactly an uheard of phenomenon. Souray's problems seemed to be more mental than strictly physical, so I would have a hard time faulting Julien. You kind of have to hope that your best players are your best players, and come playoff time if they're not, well, it's too late to do much about it.

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05-27-2004, 02:04 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian Fan
Then the problem is not Souray but Julien to not change his team due to this injury. IF that's the case, Claude Julien is not a good coach & won't ever be an elite coach.

I said IF remember !!!!

Let me explain myself by saying that rarely you will see a player saying ''coach, I know I got a wrist problem & that's why I want you to bench me''. He will always be there for the team. Souray, we all know this, is a warrior & he probably thought he still could help the team.

In that matter it's to the coach, to view/check if the guy could help the team or not. Souray was getting 150% ice time during the whole playoff.

It's not a JULIEN BASHING thread but I do think that he did a good job with the team in the regular season ''overall'' but I dont think he's the kind of coach that would guide his players to the HOLY GRAIL.
there were some questionable decisions from Julien's part during the season and moslty during playoffs, but hey he is a rookie, hope he learned from his mistakes and be a better coach next year. Overall good job but not excellent and that's not good enough.

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05-27-2004, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian Fan
Then the problem is not Souray but Julien to not change his team due to this injury. IF that's the case, Claude Julien is not a good coach & won't ever be an elite coach.

I said IF remember !!!!

Let me explain myself by saying that rarely you will see a player saying ''coach, I know I got a wrist problem & that's why I want you to bench me''. He will always be there for the team. Souray, we all know this, is a warrior & he probably thought he still could help the team.

In that matter it's to the coach, to view/check if the guy could help the team or not. Souray was getting 150% ice time during the whole playoff.

It's not a JULIEN BASHING thread but I do think that he did a good job with the team in the regular season ''overall'' but I dont think he's the kind of coach that would guide his players to the HOLY GRAIL.
Interesting thoughts RF... I gotta disagree over Julien however... He showed me that he has the ability to out think the opposition's head coaches... Talent wise, for 3/4 of the season, we iced a team that to all critics, was a shade above the Pittsburgh's and Chicago's... He proved that we had a better team than advertised, but he clearly plays a very sharp systematic game, and has all of the players on board to his game. He has always been credited as a very smart hockey coach (regarded as one of the big 3 from the Hull/Q league coaches: Burns, LeMaire and our boy Julien)... What I think he needs to improve on is the basics... He's gotta learn when to take Time outs correctly (and use them)... Also, he's gotta learn who are his dependable players with under 5 minutes to go (i.e. what situations key players are good at)... A coaching position is just as important to learn as anyt player (esp. in today's NHL)... But if he gets some of the small detailing of his club worked out, he can lead us to the Holy Grail

I just hope he doesn't pull a Jacques Martin/Pat Quinn and stall with one big idea.

But then again this is the same guy who was talking about the lessons Tortorella said he learned after getting kayoed last year, and how it was a MAJOR LEARNING lesson... Jules will not rest IMO, he's going to learn from his experiences. Why? because he WANTS it.


Last edited by Marchy79: 05-27-2004 at 02:08 PM.
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Old
05-27-2004, 02:06 PM
  #8
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Makes me wonder how much better Brisebois would of been this year if he was 100%...hopefully we will find out the answer next year.

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05-27-2004, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien
So he should have played Dykhuis instead?

Looking around the league and hearing about all the DMarkovs and Johnssons and Sundin and Koivu and Roenick... and probably lots of others... playing injured in the playoffs in not exactly an uheard of phenomenon. Souray's problems seemed to be more mental than strictly physical, so I would have a hard time faulting Julien. You kind of have to hope that your best players are your best players, and come playoff time if they're not, well, it's too late to do much about it.
Im not going to the extreme by saying he should have BENCH Souray for Dykhuis but he played Souray in a LOT of KEY SITUATION where almost 99.9% habs fan saw that Souray couldn't handle.

Souray wanted to play but Julien could have played him a little less & he could have been less effective , who knows !!!

It's not a black or white situation.

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05-27-2004, 02:17 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VAN-HAB
there were some questionable decisions from Julien's part during the season and moslty during playoffs, but hey he is a rookie, hope he learned from his mistakes and be a better coach next year. Overall good job but not excellent and that's not good enough.
Exactly what I'm saying. Julien is a good coach, there's NO DOUBT about it.

Is he an ELITE coach ? I dont think so

Will he ever be an ELITE coach ? I dont think so too.

I remember Andre Savard saying when he resign from the GM : ''I did a lot of good thing to make this franchise be better in the future, now it's to another person to complete the job''

That's exactly the same way I think about Julien. He's a good coach for us, he makes our team progress by helping our youth, by making his team a dedicated one. BUT someday like Savard , when this team will mature, I think we will need another coach to make this team progress another step higher.

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05-27-2004, 02:21 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost # 1
I just hope he doesn't pull a Jacques Martin/Pat Quinn and stall with one big idea.
That's a thing he already made, like most coach, he tends to have his favorites & that is TOTALLY understandable.....unless you are too blind/stubborn to go past that & try to play the best team as possible. (Yes i'm talking about the Perreault situation)

Claude Julien was playing too much the DO or DIE situation with his team that probably cost us the SWEEP against T.B. (Im not discrediting the LIGHTNING but I think coaching made us lost 2 of the 4 games that we could have won).

It's just my 2 cents you know but that's what i'm believing.

Good coach for our team now but we will need another one when this team will be mature enough to really compete.

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05-27-2004, 02:23 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VAN-HAB
there were some questionable decisions from Julien's part during the season and moslty during playoffs, but hey he is a rookie, hope he learned from his mistakes and be a better coach next year. Overall good job but not excellent and that's not good enough.
I can't understand why you think he isnt an excellent coach. I can't think of another coach I would rather have then maybe, Bowman. That's about it.

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05-27-2004, 02:26 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz
Makes me wonder how much better Brisebois would of been this year if he was 100%...hopefully we will find out the answer next year.
Makes me wonder when this guy (#43) will be recognize as ONE of a TRUE HABS player. Since the '80 , I never saw a player with so much heart over THIS ORGANIZATION !!!

He is truely dedicated to this team, he suffered like no one for the cause in the entire HISTORY of the Habs (I'm talking about FANS treatman not injuries) & he still want to be A MONTREAL CANADIENS players.

We so often criticize players with a lack of loyalty to a franchise that we forgot how much Brisebois is truely an HABS SOLDIER !!!!

He will not be remember as a one of the GREAT HABS to ever play in this franchise because we had so much GREAT players in our history but BRISEBOIS sadly wont REMEMBER as A REAL & TRUE MONTREAL CANADIENS PLAYERS in a ERA with so much lack of commitments & with the fans always expecting so much of each player.

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05-27-2004, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejaculine
I can't understand why you think he isnt an excellent coach. I can't think of another coach I would rather have then maybe, Bowman. That's about it.
I'm a TRUELY BELIEVER of HOW good LARRY ROBINSON can make this team PROGRESS way better than Julien.

He loves kid, I think Komisarek & Hainsey could BENEFIT from him & probably all the youth of our franchise.

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05-27-2004, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejaculine
I can't understand why you think he isnt an excellent coach. I can't think of another coach I would rather have then maybe, Bowman. That's about it.
I can see their argument... It's the fact that though Claude was a good coach this past season, he was outcoached from time to time... I think it's just a rookie learning curve (as a brand spanking new head coach)... But he did show some very bright spots, but there were valleys to his coaching decisions... He'll be much better next season, and will prove to be that coach they are wishing for... It is very lucky to find a coach who is already at that level, but nowadays it's damn near impossible... To me, Jules is the guy, cause he has the ability to be that coach... Next year will go a long way of showing me what he has however.

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05-27-2004, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejaculine
I can't understand why you think he isnt an excellent coach. I can't think of another coach I would rather have then maybe, Bowman. That's about it.
Time will tell, right now I consider him a good coach, hoping for a better job next year.That will come with NHL experience.

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05-27-2004, 02:45 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian Fan
Exactly what I'm saying. Julien is a good coach, there's NO DOUBT about it.

Is he an ELITE coach ? I dont think so

Will he ever be an ELITE coach ? I dont think so too.

I remember Andre Savard saying when he resign from the GM : ''I did a lot of good thing to make this franchise be better in the future, now it's to another person to complete the job''

That's exactly the same way I think about Julien. He's a good coach for us, he makes our team progress by helping our youth, by making his team a dedicated one. BUT someday like Savard , when this team will mature, I think we will need another coach to make this team progress another step higher.
You maybe right, but that is alot of future telling in my opinion. What kind of coach Julien will be in a year or two is about as unpredictable as any question with the team. He seems to have excellent skills in dealing with the younger players, and in my opinion, I could see him grow as a coach at this level, as the kids grow. Again that is a lot of forecasting for a coach mind you.

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05-27-2004, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz
You maybe right, but that is alot of future telling in my opinion. What kind of coach Julien will be in a year or two is about as unpredictable as any question with the team. He seems to have excellent skills in dealing with the younger players, and in my opinion, I could see him grow as a coach at this level, as the kids grow. Again that is a lot of forecasting for a coach mind you.
I wouldn't expect anyless from you my Darz friend.

You are our Jacques Demers in this board. Every thing is always postive !!



(This is a compliment by the way if you're not sure)

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05-27-2004, 02:55 PM
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I just think Claude made minor mistakes that cost the team, but with the seasoning and the lessons he learns he will be a top coach in this league.

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05-27-2004, 02:57 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian Fan
I wouldn't expect anyless from you my Darz friend.

You are our Jacques Demers in this board. Every thing is always postive !!



(This is a compliment by the way if you're not sure)
For some reason I can't be anything but optimistic about this team in the near future.....which I find funny because overall I'm not what you would call an optimistic guy.....not that I'm a real pessimist either, but......

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05-27-2004, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian Fan
Makes me wonder when this guy (#43) will be recognize as ONE of a TRUE HABS player. Since the '80 , I never saw a player with so much heart over THIS ORGANIZATION !!!

He is truely dedicated to this team, he suffered like no one for the cause in the entire HISTORY of the Habs (I'm talking about FANS treatman not injuries) & he still want to be A MONTREAL CANADIENS players.

We so often criticize players with a lack of loyalty to a franchise that we forgot how much Brisebois is truely an HABS SOLDIER !!!!

He will not be remember as a one of the GREAT HABS to ever play in this franchise because we had so much GREAT players in our history but BRISEBOIS sadly wont REMEMBER as A REAL & TRUE MONTREAL CANADIENS PLAYERS in a ERA with so much lack of commitments & with the fans always expecting so much of each player.
Interesting take on Claude Julien, I guess time will tell.

However I can't say that I agree with you on Brisebois. How can you remember him as a great Hab when for several years he stumbled around out on the ice making HUGE mistakes. You can't blame it all on his team mates because many great players in the NHL have played on poor teams and they help to make the players around them better. Brisebois was never really able to do that. We won't even go into his little trip to Paris.

You want to label him as DEDICATED to the organization, I'll give you that...but one of the GREAT HABS...NO!

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05-27-2004, 03:32 PM
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How did a thread on operations to players over the summer, turn into a debate on Julien's ability to coach?

"Russian Fan" everything you have said so far has been the most part unfounded, you have no proof how good or bad Julien will be in the future, unless you are, of course, clairvoyent, in that case. I will be PM'ing you about what are the numbers to the upcoming super 7.

Over everything else, I am sensing an incredible amount of bitterness on your part, did Julien steal a job of yours at some time?

And your comment about Larry Robinson is ridiculous. I believe he was brought in to Los Angeles to coach that team under the same ideas that you say. He could be a great tutor to the young players, especially the D. Well, look how good that worked out!

All Julien has done at every level he has coached at is WIN. I have faith in him.

Now to the actual topic of this thread. I have even more respect for Souray, Brisebois and Begin now, that it's revealed that they were playing with injuries, some very serious.

If the 3 played that effectively (Souray' performance in the playoffs aside) while being injured. Imagine the possibilities if they are al healthy (knocks on wood)

On a side note, I am not so surprised about the Souray and Begin operations, Souray with his wrist, obviously. Begin, had problems with his shoulder at least twice this year. Hopefully that clears it up.

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05-27-2004, 04:30 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian Fan
Makes me wonder when this guy (#43) will be recognize as ONE of a TRUE HABS player. Since the '80 , I never saw a player with so much heart over THIS ORGANIZATION !!!

He is truely dedicated to this team, he suffered like no one for the cause in the entire HISTORY of the Habs (I'm talking about FANS treatman not injuries) & he still want to be A MONTREAL CANADIENS players.

We so often criticize players with a lack of loyalty to a franchise that we forgot how much Brisebois is truely an HABS SOLDIER !!!!

He will not be remember as a one of the GREAT HABS to ever play in this franchise because we had so much GREAT players in our history but BRISEBOIS sadly wont REMEMBER as A REAL & TRUE MONTREAL CANADIENS PLAYERS in a ERA with so much lack of commitments & with the fans always expecting so much of each player.
Hmm. I dunno, maybe Brisebois is as committed and dedicated as you say, but somehow I don't quite see it. Rather, he seems to be comfortable in Montreal, getting a good salary (quite in excess of his market value), and so of course he would want to remain. Plus it's his home. You can't knock him for that, but I don't see any reason to compliment him for it either. I'm sure if the Habs hadn't stepped up and offered him ludicrous money on his latest contract he would have been entirely happy to go somewhere else instead. He's an average player, with average commitment and dedication, who has just sort of stumbled by happenchance into spending his whole career with the Habs, through no fault or credit of his own. I don't see what's so great about that.

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05-27-2004, 05:35 PM
  #24
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A bit off topic but I'm very happy that our players (Souray, brisebois, begin, koivu, zednik etc) will get a load of time to get healthy again because of the CBA thing. On the other hand we won't have hockey

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05-27-2004, 05:56 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The~Franchise
How did a thread on operations to players over the summer, turn into a debate on Julien's ability to coach?

"Russian Fan" everything you have said so far has been the most part unfounded, you have no proof how good or bad Julien will be in the future, unless you are, of course, clairvoyent, in that case. I will be PM'ing you about what are the numbers to the upcoming super 7.

Over everything else, I am sensing an incredible amount of bitterness on your part, did Julien steal a job of yours at some time?

And your comment about Larry Robinson is ridiculous. I believe he was brought in to Los Angeles to coach that team under the same ideas that you say. He could be a great tutor to the young players, especially the D. Well, look how good that worked out!

All Julien has done at every level he has coached at is WIN. I have faith in him.

Now to the actual topic of this thread. I have even more respect for Souray, Brisebois and Begin now, that it's revealed that they were playing with injuries, some very serious.

If the 3 played that effectively (Souray' performance in the playoffs aside) while being injured. Imagine the possibilities if they are al healthy (knocks on wood)

On a side note, I am not so surprised about the Souray and Begin operations, Souray with his wrist, obviously. Begin, had problems with his shoulder at least twice this year. Hopefully that clears it up.
There's nothing bitter in my opinion. Everyone got their opinions I guess. This is mine nothing personal about it. C.Julien is a good coach but I dont see him as a future GREAT COACH.

My comments was about a big IF about the Julien vs Souray.

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