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If Gilroy falters early...

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Old
08-01-2010, 03:01 PM
  #1
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If Gilroy falters early...

I like Gilly, the kid has talent on the offensive end. IMO, his wheels couldnt help him cover up his mistakes once the season got past what his body was conditioned to do in college for the couple years prior to his jump to the NHL.

It's pretty obvious he is on a short leash and needs to establish himself early or he's going to lose his spot to one of our 'defense first' prospects.

Please try to keep the hate to a minimum here, I want to see some constructive and creative thought.

Do you think, given his up bringing as a forward, his lack of experince pre-NHL as a D-man, and the offensive potential and quickness up the boards he does posses, that Tort's & Co. give him a shot at winger before giving up on him and trading him as a 'low value' defensmen?

I'd like to see what he could do with adequatly less defensive responsibility in Tort's run n'gun system. Plus you gotta admit you could see he was a better player when his confidence was high early in the season, even in the 1st couple games when he came back from Hartford, till he got smoked again in the Dzone. When he played scared he lost focus. I think on wing we can get the most out of his talents.

Once again though, provided he hasnt taken a major step forward this summer, which would be great for our D corp. Do you think it's possible.

Thoughts?

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08-01-2010, 03:11 PM
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I don't see room for him. He'd have to play a bottom 6 role and he doesn't seem to be a good fit for that role like a Jason Strudwick would. Let's just hope management gave him a good list of things to work on in the offseason and he's working his ass off to come into camp ready to make it an easy decision for the coaches.

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08-01-2010, 03:11 PM
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Nah he's not gonna play forward. For better or worse he's a defenseman, but I think all of his problems are very coachable and he can turn it around.. if not with us, then with someone else.

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08-01-2010, 03:13 PM
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Meh, he doesn't look like an NHL capable defenseman.... I'm ready to part ways.

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08-01-2010, 03:18 PM
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I think the only problem with the idea your proposing is the glut of bottom 6 wingers we have on the roster and in the system. If he's not a top 6 winger I just dont see the need, he may be more valuable in a trade.
With that said, I'm not ready to rush him out of here either. I believe your spot on when you mentioned his conditioning and the jump to the nhl. Its obvious he's never going to be a top pair dman, but if he cuts down on the mistakes a bit he'd be a great guy to have on the powerplay and a nice 4th or 5th defenseman. The way I see it this season should be a better example of his abilities than last.
The problem is, even if he has a great season i still see him being moved at the deadline. With Staal, Girardi, Del Zotto, McDonough (the organization seems high on him) as the future top 4, I see a vet and McIlrath rounding out the 6.
I hope gilroy puts together a great season though and makes it a debate on whether the teams ready to give up on him, at least he may bring back a decent pick in that case...

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08-01-2010, 03:42 PM
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He was the Golden Child last year.. Remember the big signing of Gilroy?

Remember the great training camp he had last year? Everyone
was gushing about Gilroy...

Why the change in less than (1) year??

Gilroy has the skills and definate skating ability to be an NHLer..

It was a big adjustment from college to the NHL... Confidence is a
big thing which he he may lost last season..

Hopefully, he trained hard this offseason and is prepared for the physical
grind of the NHL.

If not.. I believe it's his last year on contract so no big deal... If not signed, some
other team would probably sign him..

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08-01-2010, 03:55 PM
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People here have absolutely no patience... At all..

Gilroy should have been in the AHL last year, adapting to the grind of the game. Just cause he wasn't ready last season for the NHL, doesn't mean he doesn't have what it takes.

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08-01-2010, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
People here have absolutely no patience... At all..

Gilroy should have been in the AHL last year, adapting to the grind of the game. Just cause he wasn't ready last season for the NHL, doesn't mean he doesn't have what it takes.
A 19 year old coming out of Juniors looked more comfortable and capable on our blueline than a 25 year old Gilroy coming from the NCAA... He didn't show us much of anything during the regular season.... I'm not confident at 26 that the guy is going to learn what it takes to be an NHL defenseman, nor do I want to invest a few years of a roster spot trying to find out....

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08-01-2010, 04:16 PM
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It's going to be wide open for the final two spots on defense, he may or may not even be on the opening night roster, or at least not in the opening night line-up.

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08-01-2010, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
A 19 year old coming out of Juniors looked more comfortable and capable on our blueline than a 25 year old Gilroy coming from the NCAA... He didn't show us much of anything during the regular season.... I'm not confident at 26 that the guy is going to learn what it takes to be an NHL defenseman, nor do I want to invest a few years of a roster spot trying to find out....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
People here have absolutely no patience... At all..

Gilroy should have been in the AHL last year, adapting to the grind of the game. Just cause he wasn't ready last season for the NHL, doesn't mean he doesn't have what it takes.
You both make good points and I agree with both. However, Staal shouldn't be the comparison as he (as a 19 year old out of juniors) is going to look better than 95% of all rookie defensemen, at least defensively. It's way too high of a standard to hold Gilroy or any other rookie to. Marc Staal is the exception, not the rule. The rule is than d-men coming out of juniors or ncaa will need at least 1-2 years in the AHL before being ready to play 82 games in the NHL.

I'm not ready to give up on him but my expectations are not great. He showed a lot of promise in training camp and I think if he's in better shape physically and more assertive / definitive when he gets the puck, he could make a positive impact this year. If not, I doubt he gets re-signed by us, but some team will definitely give him a contract, probably a two-way though if it comes to that. In regards to the original post, I do not seem him ever being used at forward on this team and likely not on any other. He'd be a 26 year-old second year undersized-forward without much offense. IMO, his "offense" only exists from the back-end. His strength has always been RUSHING the puck up from the back end and then dishing it off or giving and going. He's that kind of player. You'd think it would be a good fit with Gaborik, but we didn't see any of that last year. His shot seems to be average at best and I don't see him having any type of NHL-career at forward. He's an offensive d-man or bust. Hopefully he finds his niche this year and helps us out. If not, no assets lost, and we have plenty of capable replacements for a 12-15-min a night d-man.

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08-01-2010, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
A 19 year old coming out of Juniors looked more comfortable and capable on our blueline than a 25 year old Gilroy coming from the NCAA... He didn't show us much of anything during the regular season.... I'm not confident at 26 that the guy is going to learn what it takes to be an NHL defenseman, nor do I want to invest a few years of a roster spot trying to find out....
Juniors probably prepares you better for the NHL than the NCAA, IMO.

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08-01-2010, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Juniors probably prepares you better for the NHL than the NCAA, IMO.
But Gilroy had 6 years on MDZ and was playing against bigger & stronger forwards in the NCAA.... If Gilroy was 21 or 22 my take on this is different but at 26 I'm not interested in waiting 2-3 years to find out if Gilroy can be a serviceable NHL D-man....

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08-01-2010, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DelZottoFutureNorris View Post
You both make good points and I agree with both. However, Staal shouldn't be the comparison as he (as a 19 year old out of juniors) is going to look better than 95% of all rookie defensemen, at least defensively. It's way too high of a standard to hold Gilroy or any other rookie to. Marc Staal is the exception, not the rule. The rule is than d-men coming out of juniors or ncaa will need at least 1-2 years in the AHL before being ready to play 82 games in the NHL.
Sorry I was referring to MDZ as the 19 year old coming out of Juniors last season... While he wasn't terrific in his own zone, he looks much more comfortable and capable back there than Gilroy... Especially battling along the boards....

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08-01-2010, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
He was the Golden Child last year.. Remember the big signing of Gilroy?

Remember the great training camp he had last year? Everyone
was gushing about Gilroy...


Why the change in less than (1) year??

Gilroy has the skills and definate skating ability to be an NHLer..

It was a big adjustment from college to the NHL... Confidence is a
big thing which he he may lost last season..

Hopefully, he trained hard this offseason and is prepared for the physical
grind of the NHL.

If not.. I believe it's his last year on contract so no big deal... If not signed, some
other team would probably sign him..
I certainly wasn't.

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08-01-2010, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Juniors probably prepares you better for the NHL than the NCAA, IMO.
No, it doesn't.

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08-01-2010, 04:32 PM
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it also didn't help that he was paired up with Dredden for most of the year.

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08-01-2010, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
No, it doesn't.
oh, you've played in both? Everyone's entitled to their opinion

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08-01-2010, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Juniors probably prepares you better for the NHL than the NCAA, IMO.
Have to disagree with you there.

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08-01-2010, 04:45 PM
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Gilroy is Thomas Pock Version 2.0

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08-01-2010, 04:46 PM
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I believe he has a future as an NHL defenseman.

I'm not ready to give up on a player after their rookie season.

His weakness was his lack of upper body strength. Which he probably worked on over the summer.

The kid is going to be a good player. And there is NO reason to give up on him, especially when there is no one to take his place.

He's a mature player, clearly has talent, is clearly an intelligent player. Works his ass off on and off the ice.

If he is a 5-6 defenseman, that's more then fine. The kid is the best skater we have on the blueline, nobody has his wheels back there. Other then Del Zotto, he also has the best hands of all of our defensemen.

Again, not ready to give up on a player after his ROOKIE year. And yea, it does matter, regardless of his age, a rookie is a rookie. It takes time for a player to adjust to the NHL level. ESPECIALLY defensemen.

Not for nothing, but Del Zotto was worse then Gilroy defensively, by a large margin. And if it has no residual effect on MDZ, then it shouldn't with Gilroy.

I have a strong feeling Gilroy will have a solid year and solidify himself as a member of the "core'. Be it putting up 10 goals, or 5 goals, he still brings a skill set to the table that none of our other defensemen do.

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08-01-2010, 04:46 PM
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We have a logjam at forward as it is, even with no young prospect forwards making a run for the team. Gilroy doesn't fit at forward for us, it's defense or bust.

Plus, Gilroy's passing and shot is not overly well or that good at all. As a forward, you need to have something to offer.

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08-01-2010, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
A 19 year old coming out of Juniors looked more comfortable and capable on our blueline than a 25 year old Gilroy coming from the NCAA... He didn't show us much of anything during the regular season.... I'm not confident at 26 that the guy is going to learn what it takes to be an NHL defenseman, nor do I want to invest a few years of a roster spot trying to find out....
When did it become MDZ versus Gilroy? MDZ's solid season has very little to do with Gilroy, imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
But Gilroy had 6 years on MDZ and was playing against bigger & stronger forwards in the NCAA.... If Gilroy was 21 or 22 my take on this is different but at 26 I'm not interested in waiting 2-3 years to find out if Gilroy can be a serviceable NHL D-man....
Could be a late bloomer. Most dmen don't come into their own until their later 20's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Sorry I was referring to MDZ as the 19 year old coming out of Juniors last season... While he wasn't terrific in his own zone, he looks much more comfortable and capable back there than Gilroy... Especially battling along the boards....
Despite what the +/- says, MDZ is without a doubt, superior defensively than Gilroy. Definitely agree with you there.

All I'm saying is, you can't put too much emphasis on 1 season. Guys progress. They learn. Look at how many games Gilroy has played the last 3 season's. Kid should have been in the A, getting used to the grind of the game.

NCAA is mickey-mouse compared to the AHL, imo. AHL is more physical, and definitely more advanced in every aspect I can imagine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
No, it doesn't.
There isn't a league on this planet that'll better prepare a player for the NHL, than the AHL, imo...

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08-01-2010, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
There isn't a league on this planet that'll better prepare a player for the NHL, than the AHL, imo...
They weren't debating the AHL, though. They were debating the CHL vs. NCAA.

And it's true that the CHL is in no way, shape, or form superior to the NCAA.

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08-01-2010, 04:58 PM
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They weren't debating the AHL, though. They were debating the CHL vs. NCAA.

And it's true that the CHL is in no way, shape, or form superior to the NCAA.
I fail at reading

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08-01-2010, 05:00 PM
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I fail at reading
It's easy to get confused with all the quoting going on.

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