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Old
08-03-2010, 07:38 PM
  #51
jrgom81
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Im thinking our lineup looks like (still think lupul is injured in the begining of the season)

beleskey-getz-perry
ryan-saku-teemu
bodie-marchant-blake/bonino
voros-chips-parros

lubo-lydman
sbisa-sutton
brookbank-mikk

i still think we trade blake to edm for souray and our d would be
lubo-lydman
souray-sutton
sbisa-mikk/brookbank

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Old
08-03-2010, 07:56 PM
  #52
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If we don't make any more changes I think it will be something like:

Blake-Getzlaf-Perry
Ryan-Saku-Teemu
Beleskey-Marchant-Bodie
Voros-Chips-Parros

Visnovsky-Lydman
Sbisa-Sutton
Mikkelson-Brookbank

I'd like to see Blake get the chance to play with the twins and give that line a speedy winger.

If the ducks get another top 4 dman (my dreampipe, Bieksa), I think Sbisa doesn't start with the big club cause Murray(i think) said it will be top 4 minuts or nothing for Sbisa.

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08-03-2010, 08:01 PM
  #53
jax00
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Ryan-Getzlaf-Perry
Blake-Koivu-Selanne
Beleskey-Chipchura-Bodie
Voros-Marchant-Parros

Visnovsky-Lydman
Sutton-Sbisa
Brookbank-Mikkelson

I agree that I think Lupul will still be hurt.

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Old
08-03-2010, 09:04 PM
  #54
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What makes you guys think Lupul won't play? Please don't say it's because he had a MRI.

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Old
08-03-2010, 09:11 PM
  #55
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An MRI six months after surgery is standard procedure, and nothing I'd be worried about.

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Old
08-03-2010, 10:19 PM
  #56
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Am I the only one that's going to be ridiculously pissed if we start the season with our current defense? Murray said fixing it was priority and it is definitely worse than the end of last seasons, and arguably worse then the start of last seasons. Let's compare:

Last years start:
Niedermayer-Sbisa
Wiz-Whitney
Boynton-Eminger
Brookbank

end of last year:
Niedermayer-Wiz
Lubo-Ward
Brookbank-Eminger
Festerling

as of now (prediction obviously):
Lubo-Lydman
Sutton-Sbisa
Brookbank-Mikk
Festerling

once again we have an unproven rookie, a marginal 4/5 guy, and personally I like Niedermayer over Lubo. If this defense buckles like it did last season, I see no reason why Murray shouldn't be at least considered fired. He knows our defense killed us and personally I wouldn't call the defense much improved, if at all.

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Old
08-03-2010, 10:43 PM
  #57
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We'll miss the playoffs if the defense isn't improved. Even with one of the guys who might be available via trade it's questionable. Murray needed to get the defensive #1 in free agency and failed.

So yes, i'll be pissed if he doesn't get another guy and that guy better be good. Otherwise i'd fire him.

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Old
08-03-2010, 10:49 PM
  #58
Paul4587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 View Post
Am I the only one that's going to be ridiculously pissed if we start the season with our current defense? Murray said fixing it was priority and it is definitely worse than the end of last seasons, and arguably worse then the start of last seasons. Let's compare:

Last years start:
Niedermayer-Sbisa
Wiz-Whitney
Boynton-Eminger
Brookbank

end of last year:
Niedermayer-Wiz
Lubo-Ward
Brookbank-Eminger
Festerling

as of now (prediction obviously):
Lubo-Lydman
Sutton-Sbisa
Brookbank-Mikk
Festerling

once again we have an unproven rookie, a marginal 4/5 guy, and personally I like Niedermayer over Lubo. If this defense buckles like it did last season, I see no reason why Murray shouldn't be at least considered fired. He knows our defense killed us and personally I wouldn't call the defense much improved, if at all.
I would be pissed, but I've come to accept the fact that this years D is not going to be very good and will likely hurt our playoff chances. Low expectations make things a lot easier to deal with.

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Old
08-03-2010, 10:54 PM
  #59
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I hope Chipchura makes the third line jump. We don't need this checking line and energy line crap anymore, this isn't 2007. Flyers and Blackhawks had scoring depth, that's what we need. Three lines that score.

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Old
08-04-2010, 02:51 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alx83 View Post
I hope Chipchura makes the third line jump. We don't need this checking line and energy line crap anymore, this isn't 2007. Flyers and Blackhawks had scoring depth, that's what we need. Three lines that score.
The Flyers and Blackhawks also had incredibly deep defenses. They didn't need a checking line. We still do.

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Old
08-04-2010, 03:09 AM
  #61
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Their fourth line was their checking line. That's what ours can be.

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Old
08-04-2010, 03:22 AM
  #62
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Apparently Lupul started skating recently. So I'd say the chances of him being back when the seasons starts looks better now than ever before.

I sure hope Murray isn't done on D, this would be brutal unless Sbisa really does something special. Actually I have some hopes that Mikkelson could surprise. Murray was careful with what he said, hopefully he has a plan to sort the D out after he has taken care of the Teemu and Ryan things. It would make plenty of sense to bring in another D, otherwise having both Wisniewski and Sutton wouldn't have been an issue, so I feel he wanted the cap space.

There have been rumours about the money being tight in Anaheim though. If this is true, this could very much be the D to expect unless he somehow can trade Blake or Lupul.

The Kariya rumor seems more legit than ever atm. If he doesn't sign with Pittsburgh or any other team this week it's getting even more legit. With him and Afinogenov now being the top available LW's, there's nothing left for him to wait for, unless he's waiting for Murray to make room for him in terms of a roster spot.

Ryan - Getzlaf - Perry
Kariya - Koivu - Selanne
Beleskey - Marchant - Lupul
Bodie - Chipchura - Parros
(Carter, Voros)

Visnovsky - Lydman
Sutton - Souray
Brookbank - Sbisa/Mikkelson/Festerling
(Festerling/Mikkelson)

Hiller
McElhinney

One of Festerling and Mikkelson dealt if Sbisa takes a roster spot. I'm not a big fan of Souray right now, but I rather have Kariya and an overpaid injuryprone Souray than Blake and a 3rd round pick.

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Old
08-04-2010, 03:24 AM
  #63
jax00
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I don't see why we'd get rid of Blake only to bring in a softer version of him in (Kariya). At this point in both their careers I'd take Blake every time.

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Old
08-04-2010, 04:08 AM
  #64
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Sign Kariya and Teemu. Trade Beleskey and a 1st/Holland for Kabs.


Kariya Getz Perry
Ryan Koivu Selanne
Blake Marchant Lupul
Bodie Chip Parros/Voros


Visnovsky Lydman
Kaberle Sutton
Brookbank Sbisa

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Old
08-04-2010, 04:22 AM
  #65
Elvs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jax00 View Post
I don't see why we'd get rid of Blake only to bring in a softer version of him in (Kariya). At this point in both their careers I'd take Blake every time.
I agree that if Kariya can't bounce back, he's barely an upgrade. However, he wouldn't have a cap hit of $4 mil which opens up space to spend on D. Also the PP looks horrible on D apart from Visnovsky (and perhaps Getzlaf playing the point). Kariya can play the point, Blake can't and will have a hard time even getting minutes on the 2nd PP since we have Ryan and Lupul.

I also see Kariya with the ability to put up 60 points. Basically, it's:

Kariya (50-65 points for $2-$2.75 mil)
overpaid top 4 defenseman
Selanne (although he could come back no matter what)

for
Blake (35-55 points for $4 mil cap hit/$3mil salary)
a 3rd (or whatever it may take to get that overpaid top 4 guy).

Sorry btw for bringing this up again, but Strickland is a reliable source so it could have some legs. I wouldn't mind the doors it would open.

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Old
08-04-2010, 05:32 AM
  #66
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Beleskey-Getzlaf-Perry
Kariya-Koivu-Selanne
Ryan-Marchant-Lupul
Bodie/Parros/Voros-Chipchura-Blake

Visnovsky-Lydman
Sutton-Sbisa
Salvador-Mikkelsson/Mitera/Festerling
Brookbank

If he can be had for a good price, I'd like Murray to sign Bergenheim, who would be a welcome addition as a versitile feisty 2-way winger and good PK guy. He'd look good on just about any line combo.

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Old
08-04-2010, 05:50 AM
  #67
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im sorry, but adding Kariya to the top 6 forwards, give us two ****ing solid top lines... as long as the second line doesn't have a raft of injuries or something.

get rid of blake and lupul and sign kariya, and trade for one more defenceman. but getting rid of blake and lupul will be a serrriously hard task.

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Old
08-04-2010, 12:34 PM
  #68
jax00
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Originally Posted by Elvstrand View Post
I agree that if Kariya can't bounce back, he's barely an upgrade. However, he wouldn't have a cap hit of $4 mil which opens up space to spend on D. Also the PP looks horrible on D apart from Visnovsky (and perhaps Getzlaf playing the point). Kariya can play the point, Blake can't and will have a hard time even getting minutes on the 2nd PP since we have Ryan and Lupul.

I also see Kariya with the ability to put up 60 points. Basically, it's:

Kariya (50-65 points for $2-$2.75 mil)
overpaid top 4 defenseman
Selanne (although he could come back no matter what)

for
Blake (35-55 points for $4 mil cap hit/$3mil salary)
a 3rd (or whatever it may take to get that overpaid top 4 guy).

Sorry btw for bringing this up again, but Strickland is a reliable source so it could have some legs. I wouldn't mind the doors it would open.
Blake's actual salary is only 3M, as you probably know. A cap hit of 4M means nothing for a team that doesn't spend to the cap. Kariya at 2.75 and Blake at 3 are basically the same to me.

And while I like Blake, I don't think there's any chance he brings in a top 4 guy. MAYBE Sarich, but there is no chance Blake lands Souray. Its easier to just keep the guy and trade away prospects like Mikkelson+ for someone and not sign a washed up Kariya.

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Old
08-04-2010, 12:35 PM
  #69
jax00
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Originally Posted by Seanconn View Post
im sorry, but adding Kariya to the top 6 forwards, give us two ****ing solid top lines... as long as the second line doesn't have a raft of injuries or something.

get rid of blake and lupul and sign kariya, and trade for one more defenceman. but getting rid of blake and lupul will be a serrriously hard task.
Right, because Kariya showed a us how "****ing solid" he was in St. Louis.

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Old
08-04-2010, 01:15 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckguy View Post
Sign Kariya and Teemu. Trade Beleskey and a 1st/Holland for Kabs.


Kariya Getz Perry
Ryan Koivu Selanne
Blake Marchant Lupul
Bodie Chip Parros/Voros


Visnovsky Lydman
Kaberle Sutton
Brookbank Sbisa
First is that even possible cap wise? And i don't think we would spend that much anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jax00 View Post
Blake's actual salary is only 3M, as you probably know. A cap hit of 4M means nothing for a team that doesn't spend to the cap. Kariya at 2.75 and Blake at 3 are basically the same to me.

And while I like Blake, I don't think there's any chance he brings in a top 4 guy. MAYBE Sarich, but there is no chance Blake lands Souray. Its easier to just keep the guy and trade away prospects like Mikkelson+ for someone and not sign a washed up Kariya.
I think Edmonton would make the deal if we added a pick to the deal. Trading a pick plus Mikk seems ideal but could we afford to do that with out sending salary. We have what? Roughly 12 million in cap space? After signing Ryan and Teemu that takes us to 4-5 million in cap space. We aren't a cap team so the logical choice is to ideally deal one of Lupul or Blake for an overpaid top 4. Maybe we could deal Marchant, Festerling, and a pick for Bieksa? The point is that unless a substantial amount of salary goes back, we are probably stuck with what we have on defense, which is IMO an awful situation. We are staring last years awful defense right in the face again.

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Old
08-04-2010, 01:29 PM
  #71
Elvs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jax00 View Post
Blake's actual salary is only 3M, as you probably know. A cap hit of 4M means nothing for a team that doesn't spend to the cap. Kariya at 2.75 and Blake at 3 are basically the same to me.

And while I like Blake, I don't think there's any chance he brings in a top 4 guy. MAYBE Sarich, but there is no chance Blake lands Souray. Its easier to just keep the guy and trade away prospects like Mikkelson+ for someone and not sign a washed up Kariya.
Blake also has two years remaining, and if he has a bad season he will be even harder to trade next summer. He will be 37 this season, it's realistic to think that he won't be anything more than a 30 point 3rd line winger at the end of his contract. Players who only put up 60+ points twice and 30 goals once in their careers are rarely any productive when they are getting close to 40 years of age.

He could be bought out next summer, but I don't think it will happen with Selanne likely being retired. Kariya had his worst year in his career, but played much better during the last 30 games and came off a surgery. He hasn't been anything close to a 47 point player before, so he could very well have a better year in front of him.

Obviously, I'd like Kariya back because he was my favourite growing up. But if the rumours were about Afinogenov and not Kariya I would have been going on about the same thing.

I liked Getzlaf better at center than the point on the PP last season, but a 1st PP unit with Lydman/Sbisa filling on spot the back end is pretty horrible. Especially considering how awful the D on the 2nd PP unit would be. Right now the 1st PP is:

Selanne - Koivu - Perry
Visnovsky - Getzlaf

Visnovsky can log a jam of icetime on the PP. But both him, Getzlaf and Koivu are somewhat injury prone. Selanne is also 40 which makes him more injury prone than before as well, and even when healthy he's likely to regress a bit. An injury on Visnovsky would mean disaster to our D imo, and I don't want injuries to have the same impact it did last season.

1st unit:
Selanne - Getzlaf - Perry
Visnovsky - Kariya

2nd unit:
Ryan/Lupul - Koivu - Lupul/Ryan
Lydman (Visnovsky) - Sbisa

That puts Getz at center, and the PP depth gets better. If Visnovsky or Kariya gets broken we'd still be able to have a strong 1st PP unit with Getzlaf on the point and Koivu at center. Aside from any personal wishes, this is where I see Kariya helping out the most. Unless Murray finds another defenseman who can somewhat run a PP.


Last edited by Elvs: 08-04-2010 at 01:47 PM.
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Old
08-04-2010, 01:30 PM
  #72
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im sorry, but adding Kariya to the top 6 forwards, give us two ****ing solid top lines... as long as the second line doesn't have a raft of injuries or something.

get rid of blake and lupul and sign kariya, and trade for one more defenceman. but getting rid of blake and lupul will be a serrriously hard task.
There's no reason to get rid of both Blake and Lupul. Keeping Lupul would be better for our team long term but if he's moved for a good top 4 defenseman, then I'm all
for it.

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Old
08-04-2010, 08:47 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by alx83 View Post
I hope Chipchura makes the third line jump. We don't need this checking line and energy line crap anymore, this isn't 2007. Flyers and Blackhawks had scoring depth, that's what we need. Three lines that score.
the point of having "three scoring lines" is having a third line with three defensively responsible players, who can also score. Not three scorers. We do not have this. Chicago and Philly did. Thats why a checking line works best IMO.

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Old
08-05-2010, 12:54 AM
  #74
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Since we need someone to play defense on the 1st PP unit with Visnovsky, how would people feel about acquiring Matt Carle. Philadelphia has 8 NHL caliber defensemen and we need another offensive minded guy for the PP. I don't particularly like him as a player, but it's a better option than forking out a 1st rounder and a good prospect for Kaberle or taking on Souray's monster cap hit. While he's not on either Kaberle and Souray's level offensively, he's still more than capable of playing on a top PP unit, is cheaper and is just as good as either defensively (although no where near as physical as Souray). He would also be ranked third among our current defensemen in SHTOI/G.

It's not ideal but if Philadelphia plans on signing a half decent goalie, they'll need cap room and I imagine he could be had for be cheap. Also, IMO, he's a better fit than Kaberle or Souray.

Murray is in a tough position, he still needs to upgrade the blueline defensively but he lacks competent offensive defensemen other than Visnovsky.

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Old
08-05-2010, 03:19 AM
  #75
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Quote:
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im sorry, but adding Kariya to the top 6 forwards, give us two ****ing solid top lines... as long as the second line doesn't have a raft of injuries or something.

get rid of blake and lupul and sign kariya, and trade for one more defenceman. but getting rid of blake and lupul will be a serrriously hard task.
Getting rid of Lupul would be dumb. The guy had 10 goals in 23 games last year while playing through an injury.

In my mind a healthy Lupul at 4.25m>>one year of Kariya.

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