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Leighton....what do you want?

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08-02-2010, 11:34 AM
  #51
chimrichalds18
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Fans seriously going to give Leighton credit for round against Montreal? I hope you joking.

As far as Boston? Just remember how did we start game 7 against Boston.
Agreed, but you do have to give him credit for the 1st periods of three of the games against Montreal. He kept the Flyers in the game, and then we took over all 3 of them. His 'success' was far more a product of the team playing in front of him than him stealing games.

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08-02-2010, 11:38 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
Agreed, but you do have to give him credit for the 1st periods of three of the games against Montreal. He kept the Flyers in the game, and then we took over all 3 of them. His 'success' was far more a product of the team playing in front of him than him stealing games.
Habs were done in 3rd round. It was just a matter of time. If someone wants to give Leighton credit and talk about his stats in that series, fine by me.

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08-02-2010, 11:42 AM
  #53
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Fair enough, I am not a huge Leighton supporter either, I just feel he deserves more credit for his hard work and dedication to improve his game and getting the Flyers 1 game from the Cup, given the circumstances of the 2009-2010 season as a whole. There is no doubt he is a better goalie now than when he was with the Flyers the first time a few years ago.

I think a proven commodity would be the way to go in an ideal world, but a lot of HFers were calling for Rinne, Schnieder, and Mason. Are they more of a proven tender than Leighton? Same goes for the savior Bobo, he is unproven too. The only way to get rid of the unproven label is to get NHL experience and play in big games (Leighton finally got his chance to be an NHL starter and didn't crash and burn as much as we "knew" he would).

Although I understand players being PC, but based on their play (not their interviews) in front of him during his tenure with the Flyers, they are obviously confident with his and their abilties.

Why does it matter that he played well (legitimate #1 numbers) as a product of the team in front of him, if he is playing infront of said team next year with a better 7 man rotation defensive core and a year that (knock on wood) will not be Murphy Law Part II in terms of injuries, offensive production, and losing games in the wildest ways?

It is not the Flyers problem once he is not on the team and "exposed" as a goalie that ONLY plays well in the Flyers system under Laviolette. The fact that Leighton plays well and with confidence behind the Flyers under Laviolette should be a positive for Leigton, not a knock against him.

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08-02-2010, 11:43 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by DrDoom
What is sad about this thread is the fact that ONCE AGAIN we are going into the season with a QUESTION MARK in net! Not an EXCLAMATION point but an effin QUESTION MARK! For a team that is supposed to be a cup contender this question of what do we want from Leighton shouldn't even be asked.
To be fair, I don't think there was an exclamation point available on the market. Nabokov, Turco and Mason are not sure-fire bets for regular season or playoff success. What Holmgren did fail miserably in doing was reduce the questionability (??) of this team's goaltending with someone other than a career journeyman as the #1. These 3 UFAs would have gone a long way in doing so. It looks like Nabokov priced himself out of feasibility for the Flyers, and the Turco situation is so convoluted it makes Lost look like the plot to Dude, Where's My Car? However, I can't fathom yet again that Holmgren couldn't have used an excess of UFA goaltenders and a coveted #1 slot for a SC finalist to land an upgrade.

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08-02-2010, 11:46 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
To be fair, I don't think there was an exclamation point available on the market. Nabokov, Turco and Mason are not sure-fire bets for regular season or playoff success. What Holmgren did fail miserably in doing was reduce the questionability (??) of this team's goaltending with someone other than a career journeyman as the #1. These 3 UFAs would have gone a long way in doing so. It looks like Nabokov priced himself out of feasibility for the Flyers, and the Turco situation is so convoluted it makes Lost look like the plot to Dude, Where's My Car? However, I can't fathom yet again that Holmgren couldn't have used an excess of UFA goaltenders and a coveted #1 slot for a SC finalist to land an upgrade.
Nabokov and Mason are good proven starters. Turco is a crappy proven starters. So at least two of the three were "exclamation points".

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08-02-2010, 11:48 AM
  #56
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For those fans that demand credit for Leighton. He got 3M dollars 2 year deal. Jumping from 300K last year.

If this is not credit I do not know what is? Not enough credit?

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08-02-2010, 11:49 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by 97FlyersKing18 View Post
Fair enough, I am not a huge Leighton supporter either, I just feel he deserves more credit for his hard work and dedication to improve his game and getting the Flyers 1 game from the Cup, given the circumstances of the 2009-2010 season as a whole. There is no doubt he is a better goalie now than when he was with the Flyers the first time a few years ago.

I think a proven commodity would be the way to go in an ideal world, but a lot of HFers were calling for Rinne, Schnieder, and Mason. Are they more of a proven tender than Leighton? Same goes for the savior Bobo, he is unproven too. The only way to get rid of the unproven label is to get NHL experience and play in big games (Leighton finally got his chance to be an NHL starter and didn't crash and burn as much as we "knew" he would).

Although I understand players being PC, but based on their play (not their interviews) in front of him during his tenure with the Flyers, they are obviously confident with his and their abilties.

Why does it matter that he played well (legitimate #1 numbers) as a product of the team in front of him, if he is playing infront of said team next year with a better 7 man rotation defensive core and a year that (knock on wood) will not be Murphy Law Part II in terms of injuries, offensive production, and losing games in the wildest ways?

It is not the Flyers problem once he is not on the team and "exposed" as a goalie that ONLY plays well in the Flyers system under Laviolette. The fact that Leighton plays well and with confidence behind the Flyers under Laviolette should be a positive for Leigton, not a knock against him.
I see what you're saying and you've made some good points, but what about the finals? He had the same team in front of him and he didn't play well at all. And many people here have pointed out that he didn't exactly play the best teams while on the Flyers.

Leighton is decent at making the first save. That's about it. You can't rely on him to make a second save, and that's troubling since his rebound control is sub-par (and they're directly related). He's a career journeyman/backup, and it's asinine that Holmgren has (as of now) staked next season on his play.

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08-02-2010, 11:51 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
I see what you're saying and you've made some good points, but what about the finals? He had the same team in front of him and he didn't play well at all. And many people here have pointed out that he didn't exactly play the best teams while on the Flyers.

Leighton is decent at making the first save. That's about it. You can't rely on him to make a second save, and that's troubling since his rebound control is sub-par (and they're directly related). He's a career journeyman/backup, and it's asinine that Holmgren has (as of now) staked next season on his play.
Actually he's not exactly a master at making the first save. He's extremely prone to soft goals and soft goals almost always come on initial saves. See: Kane GWG goal.

Also, the Bruins that Leighton faced were not the same Bruins that Boucher face. Boston fans and any other fan who watched that series can tell you that Krejci was their best offensive player and the engine that was driving their offense.

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08-02-2010, 11:54 AM
  #59
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1. Make the saves he's supposed to make
2. Improve rebound control
3. Close your 5-hole
4. Stop giving up deflating weak goals

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08-02-2010, 12:03 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
In all reality, just be consistent. I'm not going to act like these idiots who seriously want him to be perfect in every aspect while getting paid like a nobody.
He makes more money than Marty Turco does.

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08-02-2010, 12:05 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Actually he's not exactly a master at making the first save. He's extremely prone to soft goals and soft goals almost always come on initial saves. See: Kane GWG goal.

Also, the Bruins that Leighton faced were not the same Bruins that Boucher face. Boston fans and any other fan who watched that series can tell you that Krejci was their best offensive player and the engine that was driving their offense.
Believe me...I know it and I haven't forgotten. That's why I used the word 'decent'. I guess what I'm trying to say is that when I picture the saves Leighton made these playoffs, there weren't really any phenomenal ones. A few gloves here and there, but not many "holy ****!" saves. He also faced a good amount of shots (and we know the D did a good job limiting rebounds against Montreal). That tells me (and I saw it happen) that he's not bad at making the first save, but that he's unreliable the second the puck bounces off of him.

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08-02-2010, 12:15 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
Believe me...I know it and I haven't forgotten. That's why I used the word 'decent'. I guess what I'm trying to say is that when I picture the saves Leighton made these playoffs, there weren't really any phenomenal ones. A few gloves here and there, but not many "holy ****!" saves. He also faced a good amount of shots (and we know the D did a good job limiting rebounds against Montreal). That tells me (and I saw it happen) that he's not bad at making the first save, but that he's unreliable the second the puck bounces off of him.
He's just unreliable in general. Due to his big body he makes the initial save pretty often despite the fact that he pretty much just lets the puck hit him and land where it lands. Due to how prone he is to soft goals and how bad his five-hole is he's also not reliable when it comes to making the initial save.

He just makes me nervous all-around.

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08-02-2010, 12:42 PM
  #63
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Stop making this a routine sight:


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08-02-2010, 12:50 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
I see what you're saying and you've made some good points, but what about the finals? He had the same team in front of him and he didn't play well at all. And many people here have pointed out that he didn't exactly play the best teams while on the Flyers.

Leighton is decent at making the first save. That's about it. You can't rely on him to make a second save, and that's troubling since his rebound control is sub-par (and they're directly related). He's a career journeyman/backup, and it's asinine that Holmgren has (as of now) staked next season on his play.
To be fair, Leighton made a major dent in his statline playing career just last year only counting the regular season and significantly improved his horrendous stats from Carolina. He doubled his games played last year from the previous 2 combined and 2009-2010 was the 2nd most games he played in his career and put up .900sv% on a horrible Chicago team pre-lockout.

I too feel it is short sighted to stake Leighton as a major contributor without having a "plan B" if/when he falters. Nabokov priced himself out of the Flyers range and it seems like Turco never really wanted to be a Flyer (if he declined $3million deals).

In response to the SCF play, as the team goes, so does Leighton. We know he played well behind the team and in Laviolette's system, but we also know when the team plays poor it magnifies his deficiencies. Leighton still had multiple 30 save nights against the Hawks, but didn't make the biggest save at the right time.

The issue was a combo of the Flyers big guns getting burnt out and injured after playing so much per game and Q changing up the game plan to attack the weakness of the Flyers.

Just as it is not all Leighton's fault for playing good behind a deep great team with All Star Olympians, it is also not all his fault for playing poorly behind a fatigued team coming off of a significant injury that kept him out of the stretch run to the playoffs and the first round and half the 2nd.

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08-02-2010, 12:52 PM
  #65
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Good goalies make difficult saves look easy; mainly by making it appear the shooter shot right into the goalie. Leighton's perceived lack of big saves is due to this.

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08-02-2010, 12:56 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by i am dave View Post
Stop making this a routine sight:

Showing this picture shows nothing but pure hatred. Not only does everyone agree he was awful in Carolina, but he has significantly changed his style to prevent this from happening. Not once did he get caught out of net by playing so aggressive in a Flyers uniform.

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08-02-2010, 01:02 PM
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Showing this picture shows nothing but pure hatred. Not only does everyone agree he was awful in Carolina, but he has significantly changed his style to prevent this from happening. Not once did he get caught out of net by playing so aggressive in a Flyers uniform.

This is a completely false statement. I can recount multiple times in my head that this happened, where he was bailed out by the defense. It became a running joke with between my roommate and I, who is not a Flyers fan.

It is not "pure hatred." It is a serious positioning flaw he has in his game. I can't believe you don't know this.

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08-02-2010, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by i am dave View Post
This is a completely false statement. I can recount multiple times in my head that this happened, where he was bailed out by the defense. It became a running joke with between my roommate and I, who is not a Flyers fan.

It is not "pure hatred." It is a serious positioning flaw he has in his game. I can't believe you don't know this.
Name a few games. I'll look them up. I don't think I'm wrong, but if I am I'll admit it. And when I say caught out, I mean like in the photo you presented.


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08-02-2010, 01:14 PM
  #69
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People have said this before and I'll re-iterate it. If the Flyers were gonna lose, I'm glad it happened the way it did. There was so much confusion on the ice and with the announcers, you'll never hear "THE CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS HAVE WON THE CUP!" with all that excitement you hear from the Cup wins with the Pens, Red Wings, etc. Doc couldn't do it because he wasn't sure. So that being said, we won't have that call played over and over by the NHL this season to haunt us.
would you rather be punched unconscious, and then robbed, so you dont really know whats happening, or would you rather have the money taken from you while awake?

thats how that situation seems to me, at least.

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08-02-2010, 01:25 PM
  #70
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Name a few games. I'll look them up. I don't think I'm wrong, but if I am I'll admit it. And when I say caught out, I mean like in the photo you presented.
Well here's one, for example

Pittsburgh's 3rd goal:
http://flyers.nhl.tv/team/console.js...20092010,2,649

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08-02-2010, 01:25 PM
  #71
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can we please stop citing the montreal series? montreal took almost all their shots from the outside. they were generally not allowed to get in close, and the few times i remember them doing so, they often scored. most of the 30 or so shots leighton faced a game were pretty weak.

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08-02-2010, 01:36 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Gert B Frobe View Post
He makes more money than Marty Turco does.
So he makes more than washed up goalie than nobody wanted until a cap strapped team came calling in August. Great point. Does he make more than Turco did when he was actually good?

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08-02-2010, 01:41 PM
  #73
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So he makes more than washed up goalie than nobody wanted until a cap strapped team came calling in August. Great point. Does he make more than Turco did when he was actually good?
Flyers offered Turco contract before they signed Leighton. 3 years 2M a year contract.

Where is your argument?

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08-02-2010, 01:42 PM
  #74
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Well here's one, for example

Pittsburgh's 3rd goal:
http://flyers.nhl.tv/team/console.js...20092010,2,649
1st goal: theres that horrid rebound control, lack of second save ability

Left-Handed Larceny: probably the only memorable save i can recall. that was pretty awesome.

2nd goal: no idea what happened

3rd goal: leighton happened.

4th goal: was beaten like a thai hooker.

thank god they scored 6 goals and an ENG that game.

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08-02-2010, 01:43 PM
  #75
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Hate to say it, but from a Leighton fan, Leighton will NEVER get credit...ever.

He could go 5 games in a row and let in 0 goals (where everyone will say it was the team that played well and not him) and then let up 3 goals in the 6th game (where they are all 100% his fault). Its ashame but its the truth.

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