no, its not the same. asham is much better than shelley, so what happens when we drop shelley into that line? it gets worse.
shelley sort of doesnt score goals. if he has more than like 3 this season, i will consider it one of his best years.
it also needs to be pointed out that Asham contributed a good amount of assists, as well. asham had 24 points last year, and was capable of being useful on other lines as well. thats more than Shelley's last SIX seasons combined.
Let me start by saying that I agree that Asham is a better all around player than Jody Shelley. But put both of them on a line with Betts and Lappy and their point outputs will not be that different. Asham may still wind up with more, but it won't be like we gave up Ovechkin to get Shelley. Yeah I know Shelley doesn't score, but Asham doesn't really either. His career high is 15. He is good for between 5-10 goals playing on a line with competent scorers. Shelley is good for 3-5. And putting Asham on the 4th line, which is presumably where he would have wound up had he resigned, would make that goal outlook closer to five than ten. If you are talking about Shelley or Asham on the third line playing with a Giroux or Briere, ok I am with you, Asham is the better fit. But on the fourth line, it's six of one and a half dozen of the other. Even if Asham were to get 10 goals on this 4th line and Shelley were to get 0 (which I do not think will happen), those ten goals likely will not make or break this season. Shelley was not brought in to score goals or be a playmaker. He was brought in to be a role player, and from what I understand with him, he plays that role ass well as anyone in the league, and I don't just mean a fighter. He is a leader and another big body on the ice.
EDIT: I originally said 3-5 goals, but realized that is a little high for Shelley. Make it 1-3.
Let me start by saying that I agree that Asham is a better all around player than Jody Shelley. But put both of them on a line with Betts and Lappy and their point outputs will not be that different. Asham may still wind up with more, but it won't be like we gave up Ovechkin to get Shelley. Yeah I know Shelley doesn't score, but Asham doesn't really either. His career high is 15. He is good for between 5-10 goals playing on a line with competent scorers. Shelley is good for 3-5. And putting Asham on the 4th line, which is presumably where he would have wound up had he resigned, would make that goal outlook closer to five than ten. If you are talking about Shelley or Asham on the third line playing with a Giroux or Briere, ok I am with you, Asham is the better fit. But on the fourth line, it's six of one and a half dozen of the other. Even if Asham were to get 10 goals on this 4th line and Shelley were to get 0 (which I do not think will happen), those ten goals likely will not make or break this season. Shelley was not brought in to score goals or be a playmaker. He was brought in to be a role player, and from what I understand with him, he plays that role ass well as anyone in the league, and I don't just mean a fighter. He is a leader and another big body on the ice.
EDIT: I originally said 3-5 goals, but realized that is a little high for Shelley. Make it 1-3.
So, because acquiring Shelley over Asham won't "make or break the season", it doesn't matter that it would have upgraded our team? Awesome logic.
So, because acquiring Shelley over Asham won't "make or break the season", it doesn't matter that it would have upgraded our team? Awesome logic.
No, because I'm not saying it would have upgraded our team. They only plus to Asham over Shelley would be Asham's potential to fill in short term for an injury (which Powe will be able to do in Asham's absence) and Asham's lower cap hit. Other than that, for a fourth line winger, Asham = Shelley. Having Asham wouldn't make this team any better and having Shelley doesn't make this team any worse.
uh, you also forget that asham would score goals. shelley wouldnt. no matter what line asham is on, even the fourth, he would contribute more offensively than shelley.
so for me, getting shelley and ditching asham worsens the team.
I have no doubt that happened. As odd as it sounds it thought they would even go a little further and add another Lappy type so to speak to replace Powe(asham they were going to let walk). Someone who fights and is very gritty, kill some penalties. Jamal Myers maybe.
Well, they did get Walker and O'Donnell, who can both fight a bit. It's been a while since we had a Dman who would actually fight a bit.
I also think they don't want Lappy to be taking on guys like Shelley any more, Carcillo isn't big enough to fight heavies either, nor is Asham. Hence Shelley.
There were several times last year that I was really ticked off that we just didn't have the capability to respond to garbage on the ice. Maybe some fans on here are used to sand getting kicked in their faces, but Holmgren isn't one of them - he's a Flyer.
Well, they did get Walker and O'Donnell, who can both fight a bit. It's been a while since we had a Dman who would actually fight a bit.
I also think they don't want Lappy to be taking on guys like Shelley any more, Carcillo isn't big enough to fight heavies either, nor is Asham. Hence Shelley.
There were several times last year that I was really ticked off that we just didn't have the capability to respond to garbage on the ice. Maybe some fans on here are used to sand getting kicked in their faces, but Holmgren isn't one of them - he's a Flyer.
Ironically, quite a few of those times we didn't respond, we won the game.
Ironically, quite a few of those times we didn't respond, we won the game.
Welcome to the new NHL.
respond hard enough, and your player racks up 29 penalty minutes, and the opposing team gets a 9 minute powerplay where they score...what was it? 3 goals?
Well, they did get Walker and O'Donnell, who can both fight a bit. It's been a while since we had a Dman who would actually fight a bit.
I also think they don't want Lappy to be taking on guys like Shelley any more, Carcillo isn't big enough to fight heavies either, nor is Asham. Hence Shelley.
There were several times last year that I was really ticked off that we just didn't have the capability to respond to garbage on the ice. Maybe some fans on here are used to sand getting kicked in their faces, but Holmgren isn't one of them - he's a Flyer.
I see the flyers as having at least one each season since at least the lockout ended... barring injuries... Hatcher, Smith and Pronger off the top of my head were all monsters with their fists and true heavyweights. Granted, it was best to have them fight only on selected occasions since they were all important to the team defense and losing them to the box was best avoided. When it came to fighting though they were top notch... and the Flyers always had at least one on the roster from the back-line. I agree though that they were never loaded up with multiple D-men fighters. Personally I feel that the fighters should be from the forwards anyway, not to tax the defense minutes and depth/strength. Your point on Walker and O'Donnell is well taken however.
There were several times last year that I was really ticked off that we just didn't have the capability to respond to garbage on the ice. Maybe some fans on here are used to sand getting kicked in their faces, but Holmgren isn't one of them - he's a Flyer.
yeah true, I mean think about all those Cups that style has got us the last 35 years
Well, they did get Walker and O'Donnell, who can both fight a bit. It's been a while since we had a Dman who would actually fight a bit.
I also think they don't want Lappy to be taking on guys like Shelley any more, Carcillo isn't big enough to fight heavies either, nor is Asham. Hence Shelley.
There were several times last year that I was really ticked off that we just didn't have the capability to respond to garbage on the ice. Maybe some fans on here are used to sand getting kicked in their faces, but Holmgren isn't one of them - he's a Flyer.
Which means he hasn't seen a Cup since the mid 70s.
Everyone needs to grow up and keep up with the times... I mean, I'm sure horse-drawn carts are perfectly good at moving crap around, but I'd prefer a truck.
I know it was mentioned with the goal highlights and Gagne, but once again the Flyers organization refuses to acknowledge a former player, Asham, in the websites highlight video.
I know it was mentioned with the goal highlights and Gagne, but once again the Flyers organization refuses to acknowledge a former player, Asham, in the websites highlight video.
sounds like they don't want to acknowledge a mistake.
"They'd better think twice about taking liberties with Sidney or Evgeni with Godard, Rupper and me...I hate everyone now. I'm gonna play hard vs. Philly and if that means fighting, I'll fight" - Arron Asham
"They'd better think twice about taking liberties with Sidney or Evgeni with Godard, Rupper and me...I hate everyone now. I'm gonna play hard vs. Philly and if that means fighting, I'll fight" - Arron Asham
Courtesy of Dan Carcillo's Mustache
I'd expect nothing less from Asham. Take a run at his teammate? He'll deal with you. It's one of the things I love about Asham and one of the things I hate about him not wearing orange and black.
I hate that he's a Pen, but this is all on Holmgren.
"They'd better think twice about taking liberties with Sidney or Evgeni with Godard, Rupper and me...I hate everyone now. I'm gonna play hard vs. Philly and if that means fighting, I'll fight" - Arron Asham
Courtesy of Dan Carcillo's Mustache
Just to make sure we are all on the same page... not seeing an emoticon in your post about the quote... That was a joke; correct?
I'd fully expect his allegiance to now be with the Pens, as that is the professional thing, and we ask such of all our players... And the only problem I would have with that statement if correct, and the reason I don't believe it is a quote, is the "I hate everyone now". If said in a blanket statement about all opponents, I could buy it... In this case taking a quote out of context could change an innocent statement into a call to arms... Again, I'm taking that as a joke unless directed otherwise.
I know it was mentioned with the goal highlights and Gagne, but once again the Flyers organization refuses to acknowledge a former player, Asham, in the websites highlight video.
Areyou saying Gagne and Asham were not included... or just Asham?
I could Arron not making a limited highlight reel... Gagne I would think he would have to be if for only how he broke the toes and than rushed back for the two key game winning goals vs Boston.
If a Highlights reel is created to sell the upcoming season and not detail the previous season, frankly I could see and understand stressing the players that will be on the Ice in O&B in 2010-11. Depending on the reason for the tape I could be either upset or understanding.
Well, they did get Walker and O'Donnell, who can both fight a bit. It's been a while since we had a Dman who would actually fight a bit.
I also think they don't want Lappy to be taking on guys like Shelley any more, Carcillo isn't big enough to fight heavies either, nor is Asham. Hence Shelley.
There were several times last year that I was really ticked off that we just didn't have the capability to respond to garbage on the ice. Maybe some fans on here are used to sand getting kicked in their faces, but Holmgren isn't one of them - he's a Flyer.
O'donnel isnt going to fight much at his age, onyl a few spots. Walker yes he will and i dont think he is as abd as people are making him out to be. He is just overpaid and will be the new scapegoat. I do nto see Lappy fighting much this year. It will be a select few times and needed times imo. I also dont mind Shelley, again just overpaid and too many years. Many will disagree but i would rather have paid Boogard 500k more as at least your overpaying for a guy who is the best at what he does. If you had a GM who can manage a cap even half ecent a signing like that is much more tolerable. Since he could save elsehwere instead of overpaying almost everyone on the roster.
Remember when most teams had a dman that could go along with a heavy or 2 up front? Flyers always had that guy. Guess Richardson being the last one
No, because I'm not saying it would have upgraded our team. They only plus to Asham over Shelley would be Asham's potential to fill in short term for an injury (which Powe will be able to do in Asham's absence) and Asham's lower cap hit. Other than that, for a fourth line winger, Asham = Shelley. Having Asham wouldn't make this team any better and having Shelley doesn't make this team any worse.
lol at saying that Asham isn't better then Shelley. I shouldn't even have to prove to you why that's just lol-worthy. Just comparing their TOI totals in their careers as well as their point and goal totals should say all that needs to be said.
respond hard enough, and your player racks up 29 penalty minutes, and the opposing team gets a 9 minute powerplay where they score...what was it? 3 goals?
lol at saying that Asham isn't better then Shelley. I shouldn't even have to prove to you why that's just lol-worthy. Just comparing their TOI totals in their careers as well as their point and goal totals should say all that needs to be said.
I never said Asham is not better than Shelley, in fact I think that in one of my posts I started by saying that Asham was better than Shelley, which is obvious. I am saying that they would both be playing on the 4th line and Asham's point production etc is not going to be that much different than Shelley's. If Asham and Shelley were going to be playing on the 3rd line, I'd take Asham every day of the week. But they would both be 4th liners and playing on this team's fourth line you aren't going to be garnering tons of minutes anyway (unless you will be playing the PK like Betts and Lappy will be). Their minutes would be comparable as would their point productions playing on the fourth line. Asham would probably have gotten slightly more minutes and slightly more points, but it's not like with Asham this team is the favorite to win but with Shelley there they are doomed to fail. I think they overpaid for Shelley but I am not sweating the fact that Asham is gone and Shelley is in. It really is not that big of a deal.
Just to make sure we are all on the same page... not seeing an emoticon in your post about the quote... That was a joke; correct?
I'd fully expect his allegiance to now be with the Pens, as that is the professional thing, and we ask such of all our players... And the only problem I would have with that statement if correct, and the reason I don't believe it is a quote, is the "I hate everyone now". If said in a blanket statement about all opponents, I could buy it... In this case taking a quote out of context could change an innocent statement into a call to arms... Again, I'm taking that as a joke unless directed otherwise.
If you cannot trust an anthropomorphic mustache, I don't think you can trust anyone.
