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***Official Off-Season Trade Proposals/Rumours Thread*** Part 5

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Old
08-03-2010, 11:06 AM
  #1
RedWhiteBlackGold
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***Official Off-Season Trade Proposals/Rumours Thread*** Part 5

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Previous thread: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=793216

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Old
08-03-2010, 11:23 AM
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Dejong made a great point at the end of the last thread. It will be interesting to see if Toronto does move their best, and possibly only, PMD. It seems that they want a top 6 forward in return, so it really makes you scratch your head.

Ottawa v Toronto games are sure going to be interesting this year regardless. It may not be fair to say it's as simple as Finesse D vs. Grit, because there are other variables to consider, such as the Forwards and goaltending. But you would definitely be hard pressed to find 2 D cores which are as different.

As for Kennedy, no thanks. There is something about taking on players of his size that I don't like. Especially given the fact that we will likely have the likes of Wick and Butler (as well as Shannon) fighting to get ice time and they, like Kennedy, would be most effective in the top 6.


Last edited by This: 08-03-2010 at 11:25 AM. Reason: Unnecessary quoting
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Old
08-03-2010, 01:31 PM
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Trade Kelly & Shannon & Lee

We have too many bodies on our roster

- Kelly is overpaid for someone that can fill his role in Winchester & Smith. 2.2 Million i think

- Shannon another 0.9 Million off the books

- Lee another 0.85 Million off the books..


we free up nearly 4M in cap space. And Gain picks in the process by trading them. Although i doubt there's a market for Shannon !!

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08-03-2010, 01:38 PM
  #4
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Good luck finding a trading partner for any of these guys

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Old
08-03-2010, 01:41 PM
  #5
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Not to move off the subject too much here, but I get this feeling with Lee that, in the event (and inevitability) that we move him, he will develop into a decent producing defenceman. He's taken heat in Ottawa I think mostly due to where he was drafted overall, and granted, he's no #9 overall pick. I do think, though, that the Sens haven't helped his development in Ottawa. He's never been given a consistent opportunity to develop, been paired with anyone for an extended period of time, or been left in one situation without being moved shortly thereafter (whether it be recalls, being sent down, defensive partners, etc).

Lee, to me, is a slow-developing defenceman, a lot of which can be blamed on how the Sens have let him develop. It certainly looks like he will again be squeezed out of the top 6-7 defencemen depth-wise this season (barring injuries), but I think if given a chance to play often and make the mistakes that come along with learning, Lee could become a decent second-pairing calibre defencemen in the league.

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08-03-2010, 01:43 PM
  #6
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Kelly: His cap hit is 2.125, and he's better than a replacement player, he's a good third liner. Smith and Winchester are your dime a dozen hard working 4th liners, guys who look good on the cycle against equally unskilled opponents. If you needed somebody to match up against Crosby or Ovechkin though, would you honestly feel comfortable sending out Smith or Winchester for that matchup? I'd feel comfortable with Kelly against elite offensive talent, he's a very smart hockey player, but those two would be eaten alive. Not to mention Kelly is a big part of the locker room, team cohesion is a big part of success in sports.

Shannon: His cap hit is 0.625. I couldn't care less if he was traded, I don't like him as a bottom 6er, and we've already got a few decent skilled options for the top 6 in case of injury. That being said, I see no urgent need to save 600k, and Shannon is at least somewhat proven that he can produce when injuries strike. Depth isn't a bad thing

Lee: Right now he's penciled in as our 7th dman, and I wouldn't wanna waste Wiercioch's or Cowen's time in the press box. He provides good depth, he's cheap, and he's still got reasonable upside. If Cowen impresses in camp, and Lee can't leapfrog Campoli and gets pushed to 8th on the depth chart, then I'd look to move him for a 2nd rounder or something. For now though I see no reason to move him.

In summary, whats the point of moving these guys? What good is cap space when you've got nothing to use it on?

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08-03-2010, 01:48 PM
  #7
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Smith or Winchester are not at Kelly's level. Smith isn't as good or mature defensively and Winchester plays a different style. I'm not sure this would be the best move or what kind of market there would be. Some tend to forget that Kelly is a 10-15 goal, 30-35 point sparkplug type of player that plays in every situation without looking out of place. Last season, Z. Smith played a couple of good games for us, but on certain plays, I remember him not being that sound positionally and costing us a goal or two. That's normal for every player, I just think that some guys are overrating some of the younger players that still need to adjust to the NHL.

Cap space is nice, but if you take too much of a downgrade in terms of roles, you'll suffer in certain situations. Kelly was his old self last season and it was nice to see, not to mention worth his salary.

If Shannon, Lee can be dealt, probably not for much.

We will have to deal some bodies and those guys are available, it just doesn't seem that realistic to me that we could deal away 2-3 contracts and make way for a "magical" free agent/trade along the lines of Savard...

The reality is that many teams have those spare type of guys that they'd want to get rid of. Just have a look at the amount of waiver players in the last few seasons. Some good players let go for basically nothing. We'll most likely waive a contract or two after camp and see what pans out from there.

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08-03-2010, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawthy View Post
Not to move off the subject too much here, but I get this feeling with Lee that, in the event (and inevitability) that we move him, he will develop into a decent producing defenceman. He's taken heat in Ottawa I think mostly due to where he was drafted overall, and granted, he's no #9 overall pick. I do think, though, that the Sens haven't helped his development in Ottawa. He's never been given a consistent opportunity to develop, been paired with anyone for an extended period of time, or been left in one situation without being moved shortly thereafter (whether it be recalls, being sent down, defensive partners, etc).

Lee, to me, is a slow-developing defenceman, a lot of which can be blamed on how the Sens have let him develop. It certainly looks like he will again be squeezed out of the top 6-7 defencemen depth-wise this season (barring injuries), but I think if given a chance to play often and make the mistakes that come along with learning, Lee could become a decent second-pairing calibre defencemen in the league.
I agree with this. He may be a player who will have to be moved to another team to be given a proper chance to find his way.

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08-03-2010, 01:52 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by PablitoArg View Post
We have too many bodies on our roster

- Kelly is overpaid for someone that can fill his role in Winchester & Smith. 2.2 Million i think

- Shannon another 0.9 Million off the books

- Lee another 0.85 Million off the books..


we free up nearly 4M in cap space. And Gain picks in the process by trading them. Although i doubt there's a market for Shannon !!
First of all, Wini and Smith cannot fill Kellys shoes.

If Kelly is overpaid it is by no more than 200k.

Ruutu - Kelly - Neil = our most consistent line, replacing Kelly with Wini or Smith means time wasted finding chemistry, and hoping they can do the same job as Kelly.

Kelly is one of our top Pker's, yes Smith played a little on the PK and scored, that does not make him automatically the same as Kelly.

On Lee and Shannon, why get rid of depth, we finally have an over abundance of players who will all be fighting for the few spots, why get rid of players who will push others to step up their game, while also being able to fill the shoes of injured players?

Really, and this may be a little contradictory, the only player on that list that I would be fine with trading away is Shannon because I think that Butler and Wick may be able to step into his spot as 13th forward, or injury call up for the top 6. If not Foligno will take a spot from an injured top 6, and then it becomes easy to slot in someone on a two way into the bottom 6.

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08-03-2010, 01:57 PM
  #10
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Kelly is a high end PKer with modest offensive skills... you keep him until a guy forces him out of that role... don't hand anyone the role because they could potentially eat the minutes.

Shannon and Lee I don't think do much that can't be replaced from within

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08-03-2010, 01:58 PM
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Hi Sens fans, I have a question for you.

Why everybody of you wants to traded Brian Lee?

He is not a good young defensman with a good potential?

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08-03-2010, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by TMLeafs4ever View Post
Hi Sens fans, I have a question for you.

Why everybody of you wants to traded Brian Lee?

He is not a good young defensman with a good potential?
He's old news. A former 9th overall pick that hasn't lived up to that kind of billing and too much young talented D coming up the pipeline. People don't seem to value depth while conserving ELCs.

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08-03-2010, 02:23 PM
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He's old news. A former 9th overall pick that hasn't lived up to that kind of billing and too much young talented D coming up the pipeline. People don't seem to value depth while conserving ELCs.
Ok, thanks for the answer.

I'll offer to you John Mitchell for Ryan Shannon and Brian Lee.

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08-03-2010, 02:28 PM
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Kelly is a high end PKer with modest offensive skills... you keep him until a guy forces him out of that role... don't hand anyone the role because they could potentially eat the minutes.
Exactly. Its getting so tiring seeing people just throw Kelly around like he could be replaced this easily. He isn't overpaid, in fact there are very few players that do what he does as well as he does it for less money. Taking him off our team would make us a lot worse defensively, and he can't just be replaced by some rookie with zero NHL experience.

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08-03-2010, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
Kelly is a high end PKer with modest offensive skills... you keep him until a guy forces him out of that role... don't hand anyone the role because they could potentially eat the minutes.

Shannon and Lee I don't think do much that can't be replaced from within
I used to think Kelly's contract was a problem - but he's earning his ca$h, playing well at both ends of the ice. I wouldn't move him until I had a proven replacement. And anyone who replaces him is going to want similar or more money in pretty short order.

Shannon I'd give away, I don't like the fact he's on the roster at all - I can't believe he couldn't be replaced internally. Someone bigger who doesn't fall down as often.

Looking for Lee to take and hold a job in training camp. I still think he can play for this club.

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08-03-2010, 02:50 PM
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I used to think Kelly's contract was a problem - but he's earning his ca$h, playing well at both ends of the ice. I wouldn't move him until I had a proven replacement. And anyone who replaces him is going to want similar or more money in pretty short order.

Shannon I'd give away, I don't like the fact he's on the roster at all - I can't believe he couldn't be replaced internally. Someone bigger who doesn't fall down as often.

Looking for Lee to take and hold a job in training camp. I still think he can play for this club.
I agree with basically all of this.

Kellly was overpaid, but Murray played his card rights, and he rebounded and became worth his money (for the most part)

As for Lee, I do think he can play a role on this team, at 850k for this year and next, I don't see the harm in him being between the 5th-7th d-man, really give him a chance to see if he can be an NHL defenseman. Not everyone develops at the same pace. This is basically it for him, if after this season he can't establish himself, he's likely done here.

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08-03-2010, 02:57 PM
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The only way that we get rid of Kelly in my opinion is to make room for Savard, at which point id want Fisher to take the 3C role. Since that isnt going to happen i'll stick with him, wasnt pleased with his contract when we signed him but he really made up for it this year despite being sometimes painful to watch in offensive situations

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08-03-2010, 03:05 PM
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The only way that we get rid of Kelly in my opinion is to make room for Savard, at which point id want Fisher to take the 3C role. Since that isnt going to happen i'll stick with him, wasnt pleased with his contract when we signed him but he really made up for it this year despite being sometimes painful to watch in offensive situations
Good points imo.

I think the way this team is shaping, Kelly has an important role. Teams that expect to go deep need guys like Kelly and while I think Smith could one day fill Kelly's shoes, that day is not yet upon us.

In the event that we acquire a second line center than Fisher can assume Kelly's duties but until then no need to move him. Plenty of teams would be interested though.

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08-03-2010, 03:09 PM
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Kelly is definately needed, Idk what people saying trade him are thinking

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08-03-2010, 03:12 PM
  #20
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The only way that we get rid of Kelly in my opinion is to make room for Savard, at which point id want Fisher to take the 3C role. Since that isnt going to happen i'll stick with him, wasnt pleased with his contract when we signed him but he really made up for it this year despite being sometimes painful to watch in offensive situations
Good post.

The ONLY other way that I possibly see that Kelly is moved is if a few things happen.

Regin steps up even more and grabs the 2nd line centre spot. And/or Foligno steps up huge and grabs a top 6 winger spot pushing hopefully Fisher down to the 3rd line where he should be imo.

Problem is, Fisher never gets demoted, and everyone in the organization seems to really value Kelly...

Likely not going to happen I would guess...

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08-03-2010, 03:32 PM
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When you count the bodies you have to eliminate the 2-way guys who don't have to clear waivers. I think Smith still fits that category. Murray won't keep a guy like that with the big club unless he clearly earns a spot ahead of a vet. If it's close he's going back to Bingo.

I would like some young blood to get a chance on the team but Murray won't trade away his depth to make room for a rookie. These guys will be first callup when there are injuries if they play hard and don't brood in Bingo. If Smith and/or some other rookie wows them at camp then you could expect a trade after a dozen games or so if they don't want to carry the full 23 player roster with 2 vet forwards sitting in the stands like they've done in the past. Rookies won't sit in the stands when they could play in Bingo.

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08-03-2010, 05:18 PM
  #22
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When you count the bodies you have to eliminate the 2-way guys who don't have to clear waivers. I think Smith still fits that category. Murray won't keep a guy like that with the big club unless he clearly earns a spot ahead of a vet. If it's close he's going back to Bingo.

I would like some young blood to get a chance on the team but Murray won't trade away his depth to make room for a rookie. These guys will be first callup when there are injuries if they play hard and don't brood in Bingo. If Smith and/or some other rookie wows them at camp then you could expect a trade after a dozen games or so if they don't want to carry the full 23 player roster with 2 vet forwards sitting in the stands like they've done in the past. Rookies won't sit in the stands when they could play in Bingo.
These guys below make up a 22 man roster, there isn't any more cap space for another player on this team unless Murray makes a trade & I'd be surprised if that happened before the trade deadline. The two guys sitting in the stands should be either Z. Smith or Shannon & Lee rotating with Campoli & Winchester.

Michalek - Spezza - Alfredson
Regin - Fisher - Kovalev
Ruutu - Kelly - Neil
Foligno - Z. Smith - Winchester/Shannon

Kuba - Gonchar
Phillips - Karlsson
Campoli - Carkner/Lee

Leclaire - Elliott

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08-03-2010, 05:19 PM
  #23
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Without Kelly our PK goes from meh to oh god no.

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08-03-2010, 05:25 PM
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8th best PK in the league = meh, apparently.

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08-03-2010, 05:26 PM
  #25
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Without Kelly our PK goes from meh to oh god no.
Granted we lost A-Train, but I would hardly say our PK is meh.

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