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Willie Mitchell narrows it down to 4 teams-Sharks are one of them

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08-17-2010, 04:49 PM
  #251
CBJenga
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Originally Posted by USF Shark View Post
Everyone knows that the Sharks best team ever was 1992-1993
Didn't they set the record for fewest wins in a season? Like, including Original 6 era?

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08-17-2010, 05:11 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by CBJenga View Post
Didn't they set the record for fewest wins in a season? Like, including Original 6 era?
Not fewest wins - most losses.

The record for fewest wins & fewest points goes to the Caps first season - arguably the worst season in NHL history.

'92-'93 San Jose Sharks 84g 11w 71l 2t 24pts 218gf 414ga

'74-'75 Washington Capitals 80g 8w 67l 5t 21pts 181gf 446ga

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08-17-2010, 05:31 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by CupfortheSharks View Post
It might be a clue for you that pretty much everyone who actually watched the 08/09 season disagrees with you. You know, sometimes it's ok to admit others know more than you. Unless you're still a teenager. Then I understand. My kids do exactly the same thing.
win

08-09<09-10

and yes i watched almost every game of both seasons. it seems strange to me the only person arguing the superiority of the 08-09 team was the one that didnt even see them play.

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08-17-2010, 06:11 PM
  #254
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I might listen to someone trying to argue that on paper, statistically, or otherwise that the 2008-2009 Sharks were better than the 2009-2010 Sharks and while I don't think I'd agree it would sound more plausible. But like mentioned before, they weren't in execution, nor in their display of mental fortitude when the pressures of playoff time came around.

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08-17-2010, 06:18 PM
  #255
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geez, no news spawns 2 pages of crappy OT arguments on which team was "better".

Hope Willie signs with us. I'm even more worried about the dcorps that I was last year if we don't sign him.

Anyone know if he's actually in Wash right now or when he's rumored to workout?

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08-17-2010, 07:10 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Longfin View Post
I might listen to someone trying to argue that on paper, statistically, or otherwise that the 2008-2009 Sharks were better than the 2009-2010 Sharks and while I don't think I'd agree it would sound more plausible. But like mentioned before, they weren't in execution, nor in their display of mental fortitude when the pressures of playoff time came around.
...or if you want to take just the 1st half of the season. That team rocked out of the gate.

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08-17-2010, 08:52 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by CupfortheSharks View Post
...or if you want to take just the 1st half of the season. That team rocked out of the gate.
To me, the 2008-09 team was better than last year's team. The problem was that that team got so banged up as the year progressed that they weren't able to recover in time and nosedived in the playoffs. After the All-Star break, that team fell straight into mediocrity due to injuries and coasting. At one point, almost half the team was out to injuries. This year, we had a really good year with regards to injuries as only Jed Ortmeyer suffered anything that was long-term. Before, Goc, Grier, Roenick, Plihal, Lukowich, and Cheechoo all missed significant time and all missed their time near the end of the season. Not to mention Torrey Mitchell's season long injury. Then to top it off, both Clowe and Marleau had knee issues right at the end of the season.

Pretty much every bad break happened to the Sharks at the end of last year after starting off with every good break. If they were healthy, they were better than this year's team. The problem was they weren't. That team would've made the conference finals a series and maybe even won it.

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08-17-2010, 09:00 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
To me, the 2008-09 team was better than last year's team. The problem was that that team got so banged up as the year progressed that they weren't able to recover in time and nosedived in the playoffs. After the All-Star break, that team fell straight into mediocrity due to injuries and coasting. At one point, almost half the team was out to injuries. This year, we had a really good year with regards to injuries as only Jed Ortmeyer suffered anything that was long-term. Before, Goc, Grier, Roenick, Plihal, Lukowich, and Cheechoo all missed significant time and all missed their time near the end of the season. Not to mention Torrey Mitchell's season long injury. Then to top it off, both Clowe and Marleau had knee issues right at the end of the season.

Pretty much every bad break happened to the Sharks at the end of last year after starting off with every good break. If they were healthy, they were better than this year's team. The problem was they weren't. That team would've made the conference finals a series and maybe even won it.
Ehrhoff's 20 game pointless streak didnt help much either

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08-17-2010, 09:11 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
To me, the 2008-09 team was better than last year's team. The problem was that that team got so banged up as the year progressed that they weren't able to recover in time and nosedived in the playoffs. After the All-Star break, that team fell straight into mediocrity due to injuries and coasting. At one point, almost half the team was out to injuries. This year, we had a really good year with regards to injuries as only Jed Ortmeyer suffered anything that was long-term. Before, Goc, Grier, Roenick, Plihal, Lukowich, and Cheechoo all missed significant time and all missed their time near the end of the season. Not to mention Torrey Mitchell's season long injury. Then to top it off, both Clowe and Marleau had knee issues right at the end of the season.

Pretty much every bad break happened to the Sharks at the end of last year after starting off with every good break. If they were healthy, they were better than this year's team. The problem was they weren't. That team would've made the conference finals a series and maybe even won it.
I would agree with you on the injury front except for the fact that the problem with the 08-09 team was not with the bottom 6, where most of the injuries happened. Notice how no serious injuries are noted for any of our "top" players aside from Marleau. The problem was our top players not playing like top players that year.

The fact that they played like top players this past season, and not because of less injuries, is why this last team was better than the 08-09 team.

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08-17-2010, 09:19 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
Not fewest wins - most losses.

The record for fewest wins & fewest points goes to the Caps first season - arguably the worst season in NHL history.

'92-'93 San Jose Sharks 84g 11w 71l 2t 24pts 218gf 414ga

'74-'75 Washington Capitals 80g 8w 67l 5t 21pts 181gf 446ga
No arguably about it, their xpac season was easily the most pathetic season in nhl history. .131 will likely never come close to being beaten.

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08-17-2010, 09:54 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by USF Shark View Post
I would agree with you on the injury front except for the fact that the problem with the 08-09 team was not with the bottom 6, where most of the injuries happened. Notice how no serious injuries are noted for any of our "top" players aside from Marleau. The problem was our top players not playing like top players that year.

The fact that they played like top players this past season, and not because of less injuries, is why this last team was better than the 08-09 team.
Marleau, Clowe, and Nabokov were all hurt going into the playoffs. The biggest problem with all the injuries to the role players was that it took all the top players off the top lines. They were playing all their top guys with their AHL call-ups to try and compensate for the fact that they had two AHL lines for a good portion of the end of that season.

Yes, there were a few players that weren't playing their best but a lot of it was still due to the injuries. They never had time to readjust back to what the lines were. The lines they went into the playoffs with was the first time they played those lines for about two or three months.

This year's team had a lot more chemistry because they played a lot more together and that was due to fewer injuries. The results still don't lie obviously. Obviously a conference finals appearance is better than a 1st round exit. However, there are rational reasons for that flame out and injuries were a huge part of it.

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08-18-2010, 12:05 AM
  #262
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I have never seen a team dominate like the the 08-09 team did in the first half of that season. The 09-10 team never controlled the game like that. That said, 09-10 was more of a playoff "built" team but I would venture to guess that healthy and on game, the 08-09 team would win a series vs the 09-10 team.

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08-18-2010, 01:09 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Longfin View Post
I might listen to someone trying to argue that on paper, statistically, or otherwise that the 2008-2009 Sharks were better than the 2009-2010 Sharks and while I don't think I'd agree it would sound more plausible. But like mentioned before, they weren't in execution, nor in their display of mental fortitude when the pressures of playoff time came around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by one2gamble View Post
I have never seen a team dominate like the the 08-09 team did in the first half of that season. The 09-10 team never controlled the game like that. That said, 09-10 was more of a playoff "built" team but I would venture to guess that healthy and on game, the 08-09 team would win a series vs the 09-10 team.
I think the link between these two posts is the answer (combined with PinkFloyd's points about injuries).

The 08-09 team was very well built and was executing like a f*ing machine before running into injury problems AND the old playoff/execution demons.

In contrast, the 09-10 team really wasn't as good on paper, except for a better 3rd line and the fact that Marleau had a career year. However, they learned how to play and definitely fought through lots of adversity. I would rather put our 08-09 team, healthy, against the 09-10 hawks than last year's team, though. Anyway, good point about no news spawning 2 pages of argument.

Next year is the year that really worries me. 09-10 you could at least make an argument. I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks our team next year is better than either of the teams from the past 2 years. With Hjalmarsson, we were almost there. With Mitchell, they'll put themselves back in the argument but still, it's a step back for me.

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08-18-2010, 11:34 AM
  #264
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08-09 > 09-10 except when it counted.

I thought 08-09 was going to the finals for sure. And the 08-09 Ducks were a whole lot tougher an opponent than the 09-10 Avs.

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08-18-2010, 12:37 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
08-09 > 09-10 except when it counted.

I thought 08-09 was going to the finals for sure. And the 08-09 Ducks were a whole lot tougher an opponent than the 09-10 Avs.
I wouldn't sell Anderson short - he was playing almost to the capability of stealing that series, much like Hiller did the year before. Losing Mueller, and their top line not playing nearly as good as Perry, Getzlaf and Ryan makes up for the difference. As good as Niedermayer and Pronger were, I didn't think they were the difference in us not being able to score in 08-09 - we took garbage shots and played awful defensively.

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08-18-2010, 01:58 PM
  #266
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Who gives a ****? Neither team won anything that matters.

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08-18-2010, 02:07 PM
  #267
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Who gives a ****? Neither team won anything that matters.
I'm as debbie downer as anyone, but can't we at least enjoy the Detroit series win? You sound like my crotchety old dad, who after game 2 vs. Hawks, started saying that we didn't even deserve to beat Detroit. SOSF Same Old Sharks Fans. We beat ourselves up too much.

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08-18-2010, 02:41 PM
  #268
Legion
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Who gives a ****? Neither team won anything that matters.
Life must constantly disappoint you my friend.

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08-18-2010, 02:47 PM
  #269
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Life must constantly disappoint you my friend.
Luckily for me life =/= Shark hockey or otherwise you'd be right, friend.

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08-18-2010, 02:51 PM
  #270
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I'm as debbie downer as anyone, but can't we at least enjoy the Detroit series win? You sound like my crotchety old dad, who after game 2 vs. Hawks, started saying that we didn't even deserve to beat Detroit. SOSF Same Old Sharks Fans. We beat ourselves up too much.
Sorry, but I can't be content with one conference finals appearance with all the talent and opportunities the organization has had since the lockout.

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08-18-2010, 02:53 PM
  #271
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Sorry, but I can't be content with one conference finals appearance with all the talent and opportunities the organization has had since the lockout.
Same exact way I feel.

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08-18-2010, 03:21 PM
  #272
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Same exact way I feel.
I'd be elated if the only year I've known a team was when they went to the Conference Finals. You shoulda been here for when they had the most L's in a season!

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08-18-2010, 03:35 PM
  #273
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I wouldn't sell Anderson short - he was playing almost to the capability of stealing that series, much like Hiller did the year before. Losing Mueller, and their top line not playing nearly as good as Perry, Getzlaf and Ryan makes up for the difference. As good as Niedermayer and Pronger were, I didn't think they were the difference in us not being able to score in 08-09 - we took garbage shots and played awful defensively.
Agreed. Not having Mueller and Hejduk were very timely injuries for us. Who knows, in the lower scoring round 1 games like 4 and 6, Mueller might have been the difference in the series. He was on a hot streak against us after being traded from the 'Yotes.

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08-18-2010, 04:29 PM
  #274
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I love how the Willie Mitchell thread turned into the who's better out of the 08-09/09-10 teams thread to the complaining about not making the finals thread.

1. I think Willie Mitchell would fit here. Hope he signs for the cheap. Wouldn't even mind a 2 year deal.

2. The 09-10 team was better. Results. Conference Finals beats 1st round exit/Presidents Trophy.

3. I don't know about y'all but I enjoyed this years playoffs run. If you didn't feel one ounce of delight watching the Sharks beat the Red Wings then you have no soul.

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08-18-2010, 04:54 PM
  #275
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During the regular season in 08-09, i felt like i was watching a more dominant team more so than last year when i felt like i was watching a team worst team (eventhough we won a lot of those games).

i think about the 09-10 team after the olympics break when we were fighting an uphill battle having to make comebacks in 3 or 4 straight games. we still won the games, but i dont remember seeing that in 08-09 because we never had to do that.

same thing with at the beginning of the season, when our team kept giving up the 1st goal of the basically every game. we also won the majority of those games.

in 08-09 we outshot a lot of teams quite easily. this year (09-10) we conceded much more shots per game than in 08-09. someone can check the stats, i couldnt find them.

a couple of games that illustrate the difference between the two teams:

VS. Washington Capitals (couple of the best teams playing each other - team should get up for this type of game)
09-10 Oct 15, 2009 Sharks at Capitals (L 1-4) WAS wins easily. SJ outshot 27-36
08-09 Nov 22, 2008 Sharks vs. Capitals (W 7-2) SJ wins easily. WAS outshot 21-28

VS. Tampa Bay Lightning (Boyle returns to TB, team should get up for this type of game)
09-10 Oct 22, 2009 Sharks at Lightning (L 2-5) TBL outshot 34-24
08-09 Oct 25, 2008 Sharks at Lightning (W 3-0) TBL outshot 45-22

VS. Boston Bruins (Thornton returns to BOS, best of the west and east meet up)
09-10 Jan 14, 2010 Sharks at Bruins (L 1-2 OT) BOS outshot 42-31
08-09 Feb 10, 2009 Sharks at Bruins (W 5-2) shots even 30-30

Maybe we just had it too easy during the reg season in 08-09. It made us look worse during the regular season in 09-10 compared to 08-09, but i think it helped us be a better team in the playoffs.


Last edited by magic school bus: 08-18-2010 at 05:02 PM.
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