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Old
09-13-2010, 04:31 PM
  #26
CrossCheck
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Any chance Samson Sticks?

He's got tremendous off hability...

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Old
09-14-2010, 06:41 AM
  #27
Anton Dubinchuk
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One possibility that is often overlooked for 3rd line center is that Skinner takes it. Sure, his skills translate more to the wing in the NHL, but he prefers center, and if one of the winger spots isn't open for him the front office might have no other choice.

Going back to Nash and Dalpe, this offseason is a big one for both of them. Whoever wins the 3rd line center spot (unless it's Skinner, who'd then be moved to wing later in his career) is likely going to be a Cane for awhile. The other (unless unexpected trades happen) likely just won't have a spot on the Canes. Unless we trade Staal or Sutter, realistically only one of Dalpe or Nash will stick, not both.

Currently, my vote's for Dalpe. Not only do I think that his offensive upside is tremendous, but I think his offensive style of play fits better into what we already have on the Canes. If he plays 3rd line center this year, his potential of playing top 6 will almost certainly be reached within a season or two. I don't know about you guys, but I'm not so sure about Sutter as a 2nd line center; he's good enough, but that "good" is more in his defensive play, and he probably won't put up typical 2nd line center numbers. In a couple of seasons (2 or 3), Dalpe could take over that 2nd line spot, making Sutter the best 3rd line center in the league. By then, hopefully we've got Dodge up on the 4th line, and with Staal, Dalpe, Sutter, Dodge down the center, we should be set in that situation.

Unfortunately, I see one of Nash and Dalpe as the odd man out. We're TOO deep, and TOO absolutely incredible.

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Old
09-14-2010, 07:49 AM
  #28
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On a winning team I see sutter as a third line center, or as a second line wing.

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Old
09-14-2010, 08:29 AM
  #29
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I think Sutter is going to be the second line center of this team for a long time. Period. He has already shown the offensive potential he has that many thought he lacked. Plus Rutherford has said since the day Sutter was drafted that he will be the second line center behind Staal. Our second line here has always been our shut down line. Even before we had Brindy, Francis was the second line center which was used as the shut down line. Our third line always seems to be an offensive based line.

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Old
09-14-2010, 08:50 AM
  #30
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While I agree our 2nd line has always been a more defensively minded line, I think it's a little early to say that Sutter's got the offensive potential the draft experts said he lacked. He's had one year, where he was pretty much under the radar and he cashed in his opportunities.

This upcoming year is huge for him, because he's going to be the 2nd line center, facing better defenses and taking more responsibility, as far as the team goes. A lot of the roles that Brindamour took when he was....well, Brindamour, those are going to be Sutter's.

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09-14-2010, 08:59 AM
  #31
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Samsonov will have more points than Sutter this season

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Old
09-14-2010, 09:02 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imayagainknowanton View Post
Samsonov will have more points than Sutter this season
big deal... it is quite possible.

How about Erik Cole scoring 30 goals this year... there... try to beat that.

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Old
09-14-2010, 09:05 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
it's a little early to say that Sutter's got the offensive potential the draft experts said he lacked.
Absolutely it's too early to say that Sutter's got more offensive potential than what was predicted, just as it's also too early to say that he's lacking 2nd line scoring potential. And it's *definitely* too early to say that the Canes can't be a winning team with him at #2 center.

The question is whether or not he can earn the center position of the second PP unit. Brind'Amour was able to, so he was the #2 center. If Sutter can't win that, then he'll be bumped to #3.


Last edited by geehaad: 09-14-2010 at 10:53 AM.
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Old
09-14-2010, 10:12 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jgusta21 View Post
Going back to Nash and Dalpe, this offseason is a big one for both of them. Whoever wins the 3rd line center spot (unless it's Skinner, who'd then be moved to wing later in his career) is likely going to be a Cane for awhile. The other (unless unexpected trades happen) likely just won't have a spot on the Canes. Unless we trade Staal or Sutter, realistically only one of Dalpe or Nash will stick, not both.
I get what you're saying here, but there's always a shuffle of players during the season. I wouldn't be surprised if the "loser" of this contest was called up for a 2nd chance before Thanksgiving, either due to injuries or reassignments.

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Old
09-14-2010, 03:00 PM
  #35
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Looks like Dalpe has an inside track to get a spot in the roster according to this article:

http://hurricanes.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=537426

Quote:
Nonetheless, the Hurricanes have been pleased with his (Skinner's) performance, as they have of Nash, who has displayed the trademark vision that made him a target of Associate Head Coach and Director of Player Development Ron Francis in the first place.

However, Dalpe has risen to the top.

“He’s been our best player,” said Rutherford of the 2008 second-round pick. “He’s had the best chance to prepare by playing some games with Albany at the end of last season and in the playoffs, but his size, skating ability and shot really stand out.”

If Dalpe can continue that in the team’s main training camp beginning this weekend, he may have the early edge in the race to start the season in the NHL. That could be at his more natural center-ice spot – an area of greatest need for the Hurricanes – or at the wing, which echoes Skinner’s positional eligibility.
I feel pleased.

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Old
09-14-2010, 03:23 PM
  #36
Brock Anton
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I'd prefer to have both Dalpe and Nash start the year in the AHL, but we pretty much have to pick one to play the third line.

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Old
09-14-2010, 04:34 PM
  #37
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Anyone know of a stream for tonight's game?

Also, what's that little flower thingy dmonk?

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Old
09-14-2010, 04:47 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post
Anyone know of a stream for tonight's game?

Also, what's that little flower thingy dmonk?
Quite sure there is no stream available. The only thing we get are tweets from Kyle Hanlin every so often that tell us the score... I desperately wish there was one!


Wild beat the Rangers to take away any chance of us getting top spot again this year...

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Old
09-14-2010, 06:29 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post
Also, what's that little flower thingy dmonk?
ICQ instant messenger application...

Meanwhile Dalpe scored a goal and recorded an assist. Canes are leading 3-0 per...
Skinner with 3 assists.

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Old
09-14-2010, 06:31 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by dmonk View Post
Meanwhile Dalpe scored a goal and recorded an assist. Canes are leading 3-0 per...
Skinner with 3 assists.
I guess it was a good idea to put them on the same line...

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Old
09-14-2010, 06:53 PM
  #41
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Wow... Baby canes are running away with the game.. It's 6-1 after 2 periods

Skinner (4 points so far) scored his first one..

Pistilli, Jordan, Rissanen, Kennedy and Dalpe (3 points after 40min) are the other scorers.

stats after 2 periods:

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Old
09-14-2010, 07:43 PM
  #42
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Canes win 8-1 but Minnesota beat the Rangers so they clinch first in the division. No finals for Carolina this year.

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Old
09-14-2010, 08:45 PM
  #43
Brock Anton
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Skinner with 5 points.

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Old
09-14-2010, 09:07 PM
  #44
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what a performance by Jeff Skinner, we need to line him up with Staal and Jokinen for the pre-season, see how the chemistry of that potential line works.

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Old
09-15-2010, 08:08 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by geehaad View Post
Absolutely it's too early to say that Sutter's got more offensive potential than what was predicted, just as it's also too early to say that he's lacking 2nd line scoring potential. And it's *definitely* too early to say that the Canes can't be a winning team with him at #2 center.

The question is whether or not he can earn the center position of the second PP unit. Brind'Amour was able to, so he was the #2 center. If Sutter can't win that, then he'll be bumped to #3.
I don't understand why people are so pessimistic about Sutter. He scored 21 in 73 games at the age of 20/21 during his second season. And he is 6'3" and still scrawny. And he still is developing offensive skills.

Maybe people just aren't sincere. If I offered 1-10 odds that Sutter scores 30 goals in a season before he is 30, my 10 dollars, against your 100 dollars, would you take it?

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Old
09-15-2010, 08:19 AM
  #46
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Too early to tell, but I'd definitely err on the side of caution.

It's a relatively rare thing to score 30 in this league, and losing a great playmaker in Whitney (who undoubtedly helped Sutter last year) certainly doesn't help that cause. Plus, as already mentioned, he'll be facing tougher defenses and have more of a spotlight on him (both from the fans and the opposing players).

That's not to say he won't score 30 eventually. After all, there's no telling how any of our prospects work out and if they build and/or keep chemistry with Sutter.

But I don't think after one season of 21, you can automatically jump to 30 eventually.

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Old
09-15-2010, 10:54 AM
  #47
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There are a few key factors that I use to evaluate goal scoring and the probability of a career season or the possibility that the results may not be sustainable.

1. Shots taken. Or more directly, shooting percentage. I have a benchmark of 15% in my mind as the point when a player has been given quite a few fortuitous bounces. Most players tend to hang around the 12-14% mark as a general rule unless they're defenders, in which case it drops dramatically. Staal usually hangs around 10-12% simply by virtue of the sheer quantity of shots he takes. Sutter last year came in at 12.5%, which is right in the middle of reasonable. To me, that highly diminishes the possibility of it being a freak occurrence that he scored 21 goals in 72 games last year. Sutter took just over 2 shots per game last season, which over an 82 game schedule comes out to around 164-184 shots over the course of an entire season. Even if he only shoots 10%, which would be pretty paltry, that would mean 16-18 goals. If he went off the grid on a career year, it's possible that he could shoot around the 18-20% mark like most players do in a career season. That could potentially double those totals..... and that is providing he doesn't improve his ability to get shots from where he is today.

2. Ice time distribution. Loads of powerplay time = more scoring chances = more shots. Sutter didn't play an obscene amount of time on the powerplay last year and that number is almost certainly to go up which should in theory raise totals across the board in terms of shots and goals. This does not always hold as true as the shooting percentage debate, but it's more of a general rule to keep in mind that production can sometimes be lock step with opportunities and the best opportunities usually occur with the extra man. If the conversion rate, shooting percentage, stays the same or improves, then the goal total will improve with it.

3. Learning curve. Perhaps the most important for Sutter in particular is the learning curve and where he stands. Generally, a player can be expected to build upon a good season with a better season if they work hard enough and have the ability. Watching Sutter last year, the learning curve and improvement over the course of the season was obvious. I think if he follows that same curve, as there is no indication he will not, then the increase in ice time and aptitude should result in a greater number of goals.

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Old
09-15-2010, 10:58 AM
  #48
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There are a few key factors that I use to evaluate goal scoring and the probability of a career season or the possibility that the results may not be sustainable.

1. Shots taken. Or more directly, shooting percentage. I have a benchmark of 15% in my mind as the point when a player has been given quite a few fortuitous bounces. Most players tend to hang around the 12-14% mark as a general rule unless they're defenders, in which case it drops dramatically. Staal usually hangs around 10-12% simply by virtue of the sheer quantity of shots he takes. Sutter last year came in at 12.5%, which is right in the middle of reasonable. To me, that highly diminishes the possibility of it being a freak occurrence that he scored 21 goals in 72 games last year. Sutter took just over 2 shots per game last season, which over an 82 game schedule comes out to around 164-184 shots over the course of an entire season. Even if he only shoots 10%, which would be pretty paltry, that would mean 16-18 goals. If he went off the grid on a career year, it's possible that he could shoot around the 18-20% mark like most players do in a career season. That could potentially double those totals..... and that is providing he doesn't improve his ability to get shots from where he is today.

2. Ice time distribution. Loads of powerplay time = more scoring chances = more shots. Sutter didn't play an obscene amount of time on the powerplay last year and that number is almost certainly to go up which should in theory raise totals across the board in terms of shots and goals. This does not always hold as true as the shooting percentage debate, but it's more of a general rule to keep in mind that production can sometimes be lock step with opportunities and the best opportunities usually occur with the extra man. If the conversion rate, shooting percentage, stays the same or improves, then the goal total will improve with it.

3. Learning curve. Perhaps the most important for Sutter in particular is the learning curve and where he stands. Generally, a player can be expected to build upon a good season with a better season if they work hard enough and have the ability. Watching Sutter last year, the learning curve and improvement over the course of the season was obvious. I think if he follows that same curve, as there is no indication he will not, then the increase in ice time and aptitude should result in a greater number of goals.

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Old
09-15-2010, 10:59 AM
  #49
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There are a few key factors that I use to evaluate goal scoring and the probability of a career season or the possibility that the results may not be sustainable.

1. Shots taken. Or more directly, shooting percentage. I have a benchmark of 15% in my mind as the point when a player has been given quite a few fortuitous bounces. Most players tend to hang around the 12-14% mark as a general rule unless they're defenders, in which case it drops dramatically. Staal usually hangs around 10-12% simply by virtue of the sheer quantity of shots he takes. Sutter last year came in at 12.5%, which is right in the middle of reasonable. To me, that highly diminishes the possibility of it being a freak occurrence that he scored 21 goals in 72 games last year. Sutter took just over 2 shots per game last season, which over an 82 game schedule comes out to around 164-184 shots over the course of an entire season. Even if he only shoots 10%, which would be pretty paltry, that would mean 16-18 goals. If he went off the grid on a career year, it's possible that he could shoot around the 18-20% mark like most players do in a career season. That could potentially double those totals..... and that is providing he doesn't improve his ability to get shots from where he is today.

2. Ice time distribution. Loads of powerplay time = more scoring chances = more shots. Sutter didn't play an obscene amount of time on the powerplay last year and that number is almost certainly to go up which should in theory raise totals across the board in terms of shots and goals. This does not always hold as true as the shooting percentage debate, but it's more of a general rule to keep in mind that production can sometimes be lock step with opportunities and the best opportunities usually occur with the extra man. If the conversion rate, shooting percentage, stays the same or improves, then the goal total will improve with it.

3. Learning curve. Perhaps the most important for Sutter in particular is the learning curve and where he stands. Generally, a player can be expected to build upon a good season with a better season if they work hard enough and have the ability. Watching Sutter last year, the learning curve and improvement over the course of the season was obvious. I think if he follows that same curve, as there is no indication he will not, then the increase in ice time and aptitude should result in a greater number of goals.

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Old
09-15-2010, 11:00 AM
  #50
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There are a few key factors that I use to evaluate goal scoring and the probability of a career season or the possibility that the results may not be sustainable.

1. Shots taken. Or more directly, shooting percentage. I have a benchmark of 15% in my mind as the point when a player has been given quite a few fortuitous bounces. Most players tend to hang around the 12-14% mark as a general rule unless they're defenders, in which case it drops dramatically. Staal usually hangs around 10-12% simply by virtue of the sheer quantity of shots he takes. Sutter last year came in at 12.5%, which is right in the middle of reasonable. To me, that highly diminishes the possibility of it being a freak occurrence that he scored 21 goals in 72 games last year. Sutter took just over 2 shots per game last season, which over an 82 game schedule comes out to around 164-184 shots over the course of an entire season. Even if he only shoots 10%, which would be pretty paltry, that would mean 16-18 goals. If he went off the grid on a career year, it's possible that he could shoot around the 18-20% mark like most players do in a career season. That could potentially double those totals..... and that is providing he doesn't improve his ability to get shots from where he is today.

2. Ice time distribution. Loads of powerplay time = more scoring chances = more shots. Sutter didn't play an obscene amount of time on the powerplay last year and that number is almost certainly to go up which should in theory raise totals across the board in terms of shots and goals. This does not always hold as true as the shooting percentage debate, but it's more of a general rule to keep in mind that production can sometimes be lock step with opportunities and the best opportunities usually occur with the extra man. If the conversion rate, shooting percentage, stays the same or improves, then the goal total will improve with it.

3. Learning curve. Perhaps the most important for Sutter in particular is the learning curve and where he stands. Generally, a player can be expected to build upon a good season with a better season if they work hard enough and have the ability. Watching Sutter last year, the learning curve and improvement over the course of the season was obvious. I think if he follows that same curve, as there is no indication he will not, then the increase in ice time and aptitude should result in a greater number of goals.

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