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Old
08-04-2010, 07:09 PM
  #51
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If Kaberle is going to LA, Burke will want Brayden heading our way.
I am not saying Lombardi will agree! I am just saying he would be Burke's target.

Imo, obviously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZSRrMJnUQ4#t=2m38s

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Old
08-04-2010, 07:53 PM
  #52
dabeechman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nophun View Post
If Kaberle is going to LA, Burke will want Brayden heading our way.
I am not saying Lombardi will agree! I am just saying he would be Burke's target.

Imo, obviously.
You have got to be kidding me...Burke may want Brayden, but he would never expect him in a straight up swap with Kaberle.


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Old
08-04-2010, 09:10 PM
  #53
Vic Vinegar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nophun View Post
If Kaberle is going to LA, Burke will want Brayden heading our way.
I am not saying Lombardi will agree! I am just saying he would be Burke's target.

Imo, obviously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZSRrMJnUQ4#t=2m38s
And that is why Kaberle is still a Leaf.

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Old
08-04-2010, 10:21 PM
  #54
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The Kings are not going to trade assets for one year of Kaberle. Please stop referencing the Kings in your Kaberle trade-lust.

We will be seeing these proposals at the trade deadline in the upcoming season and in the end, Kaberle will just end up extending with the Leafs in the next off season. Like others have mentioned, Kaberle wants to be and remain a Leaf. If a team trades for him, he will be back as a FA. That is why, Leaf fans no other fan base wants to meet or come close to your trade demands.

Kaberle is a great defenseman, but it will only be for one year of service while in the long run the trading team would be better off with the player(s) they let go. If that's what you call over valuing your players, then so be it. But, every fan base tends to overvalue their players. Especially, those considered part of your core team.

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Old
08-04-2010, 10:32 PM
  #55
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LA values Simmonds far more than Toronto. To TOR he's an ok young piece, to LA he's a member of their core and worth a similar core player.

Simmonds probably won't be moved. If it's to Toronto, Bozak+ will be headed in return, because that's how much LA needs WMFS.

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08-04-2010, 10:38 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by headsigh View Post
LA values Simmonds far more than Toronto. To TOR he's an ok young piece, to LA he's a member of their core and worth a similar core player.

Simmonds probably won't be moved. If it's to Toronto, Bozak+ will be headed in return, because that's how much LA needs WMFS.
Great! So, we have an understanding. Now, move on to the next team so they can say "No" and Leaf fans can berate them for not accepting your trade demands.

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Old
08-05-2010, 02:20 AM
  #57
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Your profile pic shows a LA jersey. Is that the new jersey for the upcoming season??
I wish. No, it's a concept jersey design that I found on the internet. I'm looking into getting it turned into a real jersey, but haven't found a company who would make it from scratch for me.

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Old
08-05-2010, 07:27 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
If you want Kaberle, we want Brown. If you want Schenn, we want Doughty. See how that works
You can't even compare L. Shenn and Doughty. Simmonds is in no way going to Toronto for Kaberle.

We get asked about Simmonds a lot so we know his value. Simmonds plays with so much heart and he is part of our core. There will need to be a HUGE overpayment to get him off. I think anyone is tradable but Lombardi went off the reservation when he drafted Simmonds and for good reason. Just don't see a deal here that makes any sense.

We could use D and a winger but we're trying to move forward, not back.

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Old
08-05-2010, 08:55 AM
  #59
DougGilmour93
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To LA
M.Grabovski
T.Ruegsegger
T.Kaberle

To Tor
J.Stoll
J.Williams
O.Moller
V.Voinov/C.Teubert

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Old
08-05-2010, 10:13 AM
  #60
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by Fatty View Post
You can't even compare L. Shenn and Doughty. Simmonds is in no way going to Toronto for Kaberle.

We get asked about Simmonds a lot so we know his value. Simmonds plays with so much heart and he is part of our core. There will need to be a HUGE overpayment to get him off. I think anyone is tradable but Lombardi went off the reservation when he drafted Simmonds and for good reason. Just don't see a deal here that makes any sense.

We could use D and a winger but we're trying to move forward, not back.
Obviously, but to think that Simmonds can get you Schenn or Brown can get you Phaneuf really isn't much less ridiculous.

What both Kings & Leafs fans need to realize..... the Leafs currrently have 1 roster spot open. It's on the top line and for a LW. Adjustments can be made with Versteeg on the left if we're getting a RW and we have about $3m to spend. For the Kings, that means one of Smyth, Williams, Brown or Simmonds. Smyth makes too much money, and Williams gets hurt so often that the Leafs would be better off getting a guy like Maxim Afinogenov. Simmonds is young and developing, and only put up 40 points while playing a significant chunk of time with Kopitar. Brown is obviously a guy we'd like to add.

The Leafs are very happy with what they have on their defence. The only player we're actually interested in trading (i.e. dumping") is Jeff Finger. Anything else, would have to be a hockey trade, simply that we'd have to be a better team after the trade than before, and that trade would have to make us better than we would otherwise be by filling out our roster with free agents. Will the blueline change next offseason? Likely. But right now the Leafs really don't know who is going to play well, so there's no reason to make a move now.

If you're not willing to give us a player we want, then there's no reason for us to give you a player we want to stay on our team. Would the Leafs attempt to make a trade for Simmonds or Brown? Absolutely. Would either of them fetch you Kaberle? Problably Brown. Could you get a Leaf defenceman not named Finger with Simmonds? Problably Beauchemin.

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Old
08-05-2010, 10:16 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
To LA
M.Grabovski
T.Ruegsegger
T.Kaberle

To Tor
J.Stoll
J.Williams
O.Moller
V.Voinov/C.Teubert
And why do the Leafs do this........

To Toronto, Grabo > Stoll.
To Toronto, Williams < 0
To Toronto, Moller, Teubert, Ruegsegger ~=0

And Kaberle >>>>>>> 0.

Leafs lose literally on every component of the trade.

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Old
08-05-2010, 10:23 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
To LA
M.Grabovski
T.Ruegsegger
T.Kaberle

To Tor
J.Stoll
J.Williams
O.Moller
V.Voinov/C.Teubert
Breakdown...

Grabovski = Williams (take into consideration Williams history of injuries)
Kaberle + Ruegsegger = Stoll (top 6, only 28) + Moller (NHL ready prospect) + Voinov (NHL ready Prospect)

IMO some NHL ready prospects are equal to mid to late 1st round draft picks. Burke wants to get things going, he doesn't want to wait for results. Acquiring propsects that are ready to make the jump help him in the immediate future as well as down the road.

I'd rather acquire players like Brown/Simmonds/Schenn, but they don't seem likely on HF boards (altho IMO Simmonds would be in play)

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Old
08-05-2010, 10:25 AM
  #63
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Here is the thing though, the Kings simply don't need Kaberle. Not a little, not at all and those of us fans who think that we do simply aren't thinking things through far enough.

We have two of the best young D in the game in DD and JMFJ right now. We have two solid "vet" stable D types in Scuderi and Greene and we have the deepest D depth pool in the game all either ready to make the jump this year or over the next two (depending on which kid).

Voinov is a smooth skating pmd with speed and plays a smart two way game and should become a top pairing guy.
Muzzin does the same but what allot of us King fans don't know is that the kid plays with an edge and can be a pretty solid battler in front of the net. His upside is a 2b-3 (second pairing with top pairing upside).
Hickey is a top pairing guy who, has had some injury trouble but when he is healthy he proves that he was taken where he belonged in his drat. He could easily turn out to be another stellar top pairing guy who, if he remains healthy has a game that is comparable to a young TK.
Tuebert, while the furthest away from the NHL today is still regarded as a true shutdown tough big 2nd pairing caliber guy. He is still two years away imo but he has enough upside to where I would give him the time.
Forbort is huge and while he is years away, he is the type of asset that is truly valuable especially when it comes to a team with as much depth as we have. If he develops as planned then he will come into his own right when we have to start moving a few of our other D kids and fill a hole. If not, as he develops his trade value should remain solid.

If you ask (or even read) people in the Kings org will name a couple of other young D in our system as having a very good shot at making the team this year (Alex Martinez etc) as well.

1 year of TK would be great for any team, don't get me wrong but we simply don't need him after that and thus really shouldn't be willing to give you guys anything of real value for him.

That is why I would say just leave us out of the trade proposals.

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Old
08-05-2010, 10:33 AM
  #64
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But the truth of the matters is it's not us keeping the LA rumours alive, it's the media. Every other day it seems we hear a different team where Kabs is headed. But on most days, LA seems to be on the forfront (sp?) and they seem to be the most likely reported my different media outlets.

So with that being said, there has to be some sort of truth to the rumour that LA is infact interested in Kaberle. Why else would LA keep coming up?

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Old
08-05-2010, 10:36 AM
  #65
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I think Toronto fans need to temper their expectations of what Kaberle will bring in. He only has 1 year left on his contract.

I remember when the Kings traded Cammalleri at the 2008 draft. He had just come off several good goal-scoring season and he was still 25. But the only thing they got for him was the 17th overall pick.

I wasn't thrilled about the deal at first, but then I realized it wasn't for Cammalleri. It was for one year of Cammalleri. I think this is how Leafs fan should look at it. You probably won't get a player in their prime or a top prospect. So no Williams, Simmonds, Brown, or Schenn.

Leafs fan should be thinking late 1st round pick + mid-level prospect.

If the Kings do trade for Kaberle, I wouldn't be surprised if Moller goes the other way. Burke has a thing for him and I think he's fallen on the Kings prospect depth chart.


Last edited by MartinVanBuren: 08-05-2010 at 10:43 AM.
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Old
08-05-2010, 10:48 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
But the truth of the matters is it's not us keeping the LA rumours alive, it's the media. Every other day it seems we hear a different team where Kabs is headed. But on most days, LA seems to be on the forfront (sp?) and they seem to be the most likely reported my different media outlets.

So with that being said, there has to be some sort of truth to the rumour that LA is infact interested in Kaberle. Why else would LA keep coming up?
I understand but we don't see them on our end all that often. True that LA media doesn't cover the kings let alone hockey but we know that it is front page news in TO. It seems to me that most every TK rumor starts out in TO (or people who report on the team) and then every now and then gets picked up by a few other outlets.

The people who report on the Kings really don't say anything about TK coming to L.A. That doesn't mean that it wouldn't happen, it does mean that there really isn't any validity to the rumors from our end. We may have been interested but it appears that the asking price was so ridiculously too high that we walked away.

I agree that 1 year of TK would be a good thing but we don't need him after that all things considered. What we would give for him isn't likely to be what you would want so that is why I stand on my position.

Perfect analogy using Cammy by the way.

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Old
08-05-2010, 10:52 AM
  #67
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Grabovski has negative value to LA and probably throughout the league. Kaberle won't be traded unless Burke comes way down on his demands.

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Old
08-05-2010, 11:09 AM
  #68
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Breakdown...

Grabovski = Williams (take into consideration Williams history of injuries)
Kaberle + Ruegsegger = Stoll (top 6, only 28) + Moller (NHL ready prospect) + Voinov (NHL ready Prospect)

IMO some NHL ready prospects are equal to mid to late 1st round draft picks. Burke wants to get things going, he doesn't want to wait for results. Acquiring propsects that are ready to make the jump help him in the immediate future as well as down the road.

I'd rather acquire players like Brown/Simmonds/Schenn, but they don't seem likely on HF boards (altho IMO Simmonds would be in play)
That's a terrible breakdown....

The Leafs do not need/want Justin Williams. He's always injured and costs $3.5m. The Leafs need Grabovski, because without him, they're looking at Bozak/Kadri as their centres for all 82 games next year (and there wont be more than that).

Stoll = Almost useless. Leafs could problably do better with John Madden at 1/3 the price.
Moller = Guy that's not good enough to play in the top 6, don't need anything else in the bottom 6.
Voinov = We've got enough defensive prospects.
Ruegsegger = AHL Talent, maybe.

Just because Brown/Simmonds/Schenn aren't in play, doesn't mean the Leafs should be willing to talk to the kings about lesser players. It doesn't make sense to trade for players that don't fill a need for the Leafs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
But the truth of the matters is it's not us keeping the LA rumours alive, it's the media. Every other day it seems we hear a different team where Kabs is headed. But on most days, LA seems to be on the forfront (sp?) and they seem to be the most likely reported my different media outlets.

So with that being said, there has to be some sort of truth to the rumour that LA is infact interested in Kaberle. Why else would LA keep coming up?
It's not even the media...it's Eklund for the most part... and when it is the media, it's simply them speculating that Los Angeles is short on high quality blueliners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinVanBuren View Post
I think Toronto fans need to temper their expectations of what Kaberle will bring in. He only has 1 year left on his contract.

I remember when the Kings traded Cammalleri at the 2008 draft. He had just come off several good goal-scoring season and he was still 25. But the only thing they got for him was the 17th overall pick.

I wasn't thrilled about the deal at first, but then I realized it wasn't for Cammalleri. It was for one year of Cammalleri. I think this is how Leafs fan should look at it. You probably won't get a player in their prime or a top prospect. So no Williams, Simmonds, Brown, or Schenn.

Leafs fan should be thinking late 1st round pick + mid-level prospect.

If the Kings do trade for Kaberle, I wouldn't be surprised if Moller goes the other way. Burke has a thing for him and I think he's fallen on the Kings prospect depth chart.
There's a difference though, Kaberle now > Cammaleri at time of trade, and he wants to resign. Cammaleri wanted to test the market as I recall.

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Old
08-05-2010, 11:15 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
There's a difference though, Kaberle now > Cammaleri at time of trade, and he wants to resign. Cammaleri wanted to test the market as I recall.
Cammy was already established as a goal scorer and was only 26.
Nobody truely knows Kaberle's intentions. For all we know, He could get traded and then re-sign with the Leafs a year later.

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Old
08-05-2010, 11:23 AM
  #70
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Lol why do people keep thinking Kaberle is coming to LA? He's not really someone we need, we need a much more physical/stay at home defenseman

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Old
08-05-2010, 11:29 AM
  #71
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That's a terrible breakdown....

The Leafs do not need/want Justin Williams. He's always injured and costs $3.5m. The Leafs need Grabovski, because without him, they're looking at Bozak/Kadri as their centres for all 82 games next year (and there wont be more than that).

Stoll = Almost useless. Leafs could problably do better with John Madden at 1/3 the price.
Moller = Guy that's not good enough to play in the top 6, don't need anything else in the bottom 6.
Voinov = We've got enough defensive prospects.

Ruegsegger = AHL Talent, maybe.

Just because Brown/Simmonds/Schenn aren't in play, doesn't mean the Leafs should be willing to talk to the kings about lesser players. It doesn't make sense to trade for players that don't fill a need for the Leafs.



It's not even the media...it's Eklund for the most part... and when it is the media, it's simply them speculating that Los Angeles is short on high quality blueliners.



There's a difference though, Kaberle now > Cammaleri at time of trade, and he wants to resign. Cammaleri wanted to test the market as I recall.
These two are a joke. Every team needs as many D prospects as they can get, especially one as good as Voinov. Moller would be one of the better Leafs forward prospects. Kaberle is worth a mid level prospect and late 1st at best. The sooner Burke and Leafs fans realize this, the better for the rest of the league and its fans.

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Old
08-05-2010, 11:30 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
Cammy was already established as a goal scorer and was only 26.
Nobody truely knows Kaberle's intentions. For all we know, He could get traded and then re-sign with the Leafs a year later.
And Kaberle is one of the top 20 defenceman in the league and top 5 puckmovers.... but that's beyond the point.

Kaberle has openly stated taht he would like to sign an extension with the Leafs this offseason. Any trade they make means they are foregoing that opportunity.

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08-05-2010, 12:01 PM
  #73
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take out justin williams and give us brayden schenn and we'll give ya 2nd rounder
Another troll with only 10 posts

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08-05-2010, 12:13 PM
  #74
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Uhmmm just give me a hint how that makes the Kings a better team ??????
We give away a 1st lien winger and the crowd favorite for one year of Kaberle.... and ........... who ist the other guy ..... ist it the Hot Dog salesman in the 300's sections ????
which one of these guys is a legit first line winger?

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08-05-2010, 12:14 PM
  #75
seanlinden
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These two are a joke. Every team needs as many D prospects as they can get, especially one as good as Voinov. Moller would be one of the better Leafs forward prospects. Kaberle is worth a mid level prospect and late 1st at best. The sooner Burke and Leafs fans realize this, the better for the rest of the league and its fans.
Moller may be one of the bestter leafs forward prospects, but the reality is that Moller can't develop anymore in the AHL, and isn't good enough to make improve our team at all.

Aulie, Holzer, Mikus, Blacker, Gysbers and 6 very good defenceman in the lineup, the oldest of which is 32 years old. Would we take Voinov? sure. Would we trade anything for him? problably not.

"trade value" does not get justified because by what a player is, it gets justified by how a player's presence would effect the other team.

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