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Stafford+Butler/Sekera=?

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Old
08-04-2010, 12:40 PM
  #1
Jame
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Stafford+Butler/Sekera=?

Let's compile a list of players we could possibly get for a package of Stafford and Butler, or Stafford and Sekera.

Keep it simple... 1 player in return.

Ryan Clowe
James Neal

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08-04-2010, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Let's compile a list of players we could possibly get for a package of Stafford and Butler, or Stafford and Sekera.

Keep it simple... 1 player in return.

Ryan Clowe
James Neal
I think you will struggle to get either of these guys for that.

My choice is Zubrus, but I think there are other options out there somwhere.

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08-04-2010, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Let's compile a list of players we could possibly get for a package of Stafford and Butler, or Stafford and Sekera.

Keep it simple... 1 player in return.

Ryan Clowe
James Neal
Are we allowed to use picks/prospects?

Also I'd think that the player we get in return can't be making more than 3M (salary, not cap hit) since I don't think the Sabres are going to add payroll. So no Scott Hartnell, no Ryane Clowe, etc. And given the dearth of Dmen on the roster, safe to say this package is for a forward.

Forwards who may or may not be available that fit the salary structure:

Eric Cole
Jiri Hudler
Andrei Kostitsyn (ok, so he makes 3.25M)
Jamie Langenbrunner
Radim Vrbata
Alex Steen
Mikhal Grabovski
Trent Hunter

Obviously, that package is worth more than many of those guys, but there's not a lot to choose from.

In other words...unless the Sabres are willing to add payroll, there's maybe one or two players worth that package who would be worthwhile additions.

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08-04-2010, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin View Post
I think you will struggle to get either of these guys for that.

My choice is Zubrus, but I think there are other options out there somwhere.
Neal would require a pick in addition to the players. Clowe shouldn't. And I agree Zubrus would be another option, though the Devils would likely want less salary in return if Kovy remains a Devil.

Others I could see being available for that package (not saying I'd want or take any of these guys):

Chris Kunitz: Solid 50 pt player, would add grit to top-6.
Joffrey Lupul: Has nose for the net, but contract isn't best (deal breaker); work ethic questions.
RJ Umberger: Not sure if CBJ would be move him, though.
Brenden Morrow: For same reason as Neal. Dallas may want a pick, too, though.
JP Dumont: Though Nashville may have to add a mid-rounder.
Eric Fehr: Washington adds pick or mid-tier prospect.
Tomas Fleishmann: Same as Fehr in terms of value. Don't love him.

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08-04-2010, 02:00 PM
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Bouchard?
Hejduk?

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08-04-2010, 02:12 PM
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I'd keep all 3 . thank you.

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08-04-2010, 02:12 PM
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Clowe's contract is too big for us, unfortunately.

James Neal seems more likely to me, just because I see it as Dallas digging a deeper hole each day he isn't signed..

Of course, we'd be dealing for the rights to Neal, so I think at first it should be Butler + future, with Stafford and a pick going the other way if we agree on a contract with him.

Butler is of course expendable to us, and arguably has a lot of potential.
It'd be nice to get Sekera's salary out, but he doesn't fill a need of Dallas like Butler does.

Of course, Stafford isn't the same caliber forward as Neal, but he too has potential and he isn't a terrible value for Dallas to get.
I mean, their fans here don't like it, but they have to realize they are either going to resign him or they won't; it can't just magically happen if the one or both of the sides won't budge.
Plus, they need to save money to resign Richards to an extension, and Stafford is off the books next year if they aren't happy with him.

The more likely option though would be two of them (preferably Stafford + one of the D) for either two to three prospects (depending on their quality) and possibly picks (probably nothing more than a 3rd, and probably conditional too).
We really need to stock up on forward prospects, so getting some that are ready to play at a professional level would be the best option.

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08-04-2010, 02:16 PM
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Surprised you didn't include Jarrett Stoll in the original post Jame. The Kings might have a use for a guy while they wait on Voinov, Hickey and Teubert to mature.

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08-04-2010, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Clowe's contract is too big for us, unfortunately.

James Neal seems more likely to me, just because I see it as Dallas digging a deeper hole each day he isn't signed..

Of course, we'd be dealing for the rights to Neal, so I think at first it should be Butler + future, with Stafford and a pick going the other way if we agree on a contract with him.

Butler is of course expendable to us, and arguably has a lot of potential.
It'd be nice to get Sekera's salary out, but he doesn't fill a need of Dallas like Butler does.

Of course, Stafford isn't the same caliber forward as Neal, but he too has potential and he isn't a terrible value for Dallas to get.
I mean, their fans here don't like it, but they have to realize they are either going to resign him or they won't; it can't just magically happen if the one or both of the sides won't budge.
Plus, they need to save money to resign Richards to an extension, and Stafford is off the books next year if they aren't happy with him.

The more likely option though would be two of them (preferably Stafford + one of the D) for either two to three prospects (depending on their quality) and possibly picks (probably nothing more than a 3rd, and probably conditional too).
We really need to stock up on forward prospects, so getting some that are ready to play at a professional level would be the best option.
Believe me that package will be nowhere near enough for Neal. I hear they value him very highly there, and if they don't resign him, somebody will come in with a far better offer. I will almost guarantee it.

And trading Staff + one of the D makes no sense if someone is not coming back who can at least challenge for a top 6 spot. So unless its a top prospect (which won't happen either) its a pointless exercise.

And is Sekera really that much more on the block than Butler? There isn't much difference in salary between the two and if given the choice I keep Sekera on abilty + potential.

Realistically though - and unfortunately I think they stick with what they have, and see exactly where Stafford/Gerbe/Ennis and Sekera/Weber/Butler are going into the season and see how other teams situations pan out. This may be the sensible time to make a move I suppose, just before the season starts or maybe even a short way into it. Just as long as they do something.

At the absolute least I would expect them to trade Butler and sign a Steve Begin type.

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08-04-2010, 02:30 PM
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preferably someone that plays left side
I think Cole would be a good choice as would Clowe and James Neal

That way we are left with

Notice the option of keeping Hecht with Pominville or sliding him down to the third and filling Clowe/Neal/Cole with Connolly and Pominville

Ennis-Roy-Vanek (Vanek moves to the right side)
Hecht/Acquired-Connolly-Pominville
Hecht/Acquired-Niedermayer-Grier
McCormick-Gaustad-Kaleta

Morrisonn-Myers
Leopold-Montador
Buter-Rivet
Weber

Miller
Lalime

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08-04-2010, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by JPurp26 View Post
preferably someone that plays left side
I think Cole would be a good choice as would Clowe and James Neal

That way we are left with

Notice the option of keeping Hecht with Pominville or sliding him down to the third and filling Clowe/Neal/Cole with Connolly and Pominville

Ennis-Roy-Vanek (Vanek moves to the right side)
Hecht/Acquired-Connolly-Pominville
Hecht/Acquired-Niedermayer-Grier
McCormick-Gaustad-Kaleta

Morrisonn-Myers
Leopold-Montador
Buter-Rivet
Weber

Miller
Lalime
I don't like the Ennis-Roy-Vanek line... maybe it works out for them, but on paper at least, it doesn't work for me.

If Ennis makes the top 6 I see it being with Connolly-Pominville. But I also like Hecht on that line.

Not to mention - Vanek is not exactly proven at RW (yet).

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08-04-2010, 02:40 PM
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Vanek played some of his best hockey last year playing RW

and Ennis is a playmaker to help be creative setting up Vanek and Roy

but ya it would all depend on who we would get hopefully a left winger

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08-04-2010, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Clowe's contract is too big for us, unfortunately.

James Neal seems more likely to me, just because I see it as Dallas digging a deeper hole each day he isn't signed..

Of course, we'd be dealing for the rights to Neal, so I think at first it should be Butler + future, with Stafford and a pick going the other way if we agree on a contract with him.

Butler is of course expendable to us, and arguably has a lot of potential.
It'd be nice to get Sekera's salary out, but he doesn't fill a need of Dallas like Butler does.

Of course, Stafford isn't the same caliber forward as Neal, but he too has potential and he isn't a terrible value for Dallas to get.
I mean, their fans here don't like it, but they have to realize they are either going to resign him or they won't; it can't just magically happen if the one or both of the sides won't budge.
Plus, they need to save money to resign Richards to an extension, and Stafford is off the books next year if they aren't happy with him.

The more likely option though would be two of them (preferably Stafford + one of the D) for either two to three prospects (depending on their quality) and possibly picks (probably nothing more than a 3rd, and probably conditional too).
We really need to stock up on forward prospects, so getting some that are ready to play at a professional level would be the best option.
false...

Clowes salary is 3.5
Stafford + Butler is 3.15 in salary

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08-04-2010, 02:51 PM
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Surprised you didn't include Jarrett Stoll in the original post Jame. The Kings might have a use for a guy while they wait on Voinov, Hickey and Teubert to mature.
I was hoping somebody else would go here...

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08-04-2010, 02:52 PM
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Believe me that package will be nowhere near enough for Neal. I hear they value him very highly there, and if they don't resign him, somebody will come in with a far better offer. I will almost guarantee it.

And trading Staff + one of the D makes no sense if someone is not coming back who can at least challenge for a top 6 spot. So unless its a top prospect (which won't happen either) its a pointless exercise.

And is Sekera really that much more on the block than Butler? There isn't much difference in salary between the two and if given the choice I keep Sekera on abilty + potential.

Realistically though - and unfortunately I think they stick with what they have, and see exactly where Stafford/Gerbe/Ennis and Sekera/Weber/Butler are going into the season and see how other teams situations pan out. This may be the sensible time to make a move I suppose, just before the season starts or maybe even a short way into it. Just as long as they do something.

At the absolute least I would expect them to trade Butler and sign a Steve Begin type.
I know that, but instead of just letting him walk, I'm sure they'd take something.
And yeah, Buffalo isn't really the destination anyone is looking to go to, I simply address the OP.

I think they'll stick with what they have too, but to me anyways, it sounds like they want to save money and ship someone out after seeing them at camp.
And, at this point, it sounds like Ennis has been penciled in fairly heavily by management, probably in a top 6 role, whether we like it or not.
Dealing him for prospects or purely picks wouldn't be a bad idea in my mind.
I mean, it's better than letting his value deteriorate by letting him sit the bench at 2.3 while picking up no points, then having to qualify him or lose him.

And no, Sekera doesn't cost that much more than Butler, but if they want to save money, I guess they could that way.
I do agree that he has much more potential, and I really hate that he is just thrown into proposals just because he has trouble coming into the line up after he's been in the doghouse for a long time.

Simply, I think we need to deal a player or two.
If the organization is into saving money, Stafford is, no doubt, the guy to go.
If Weber is in our plans, we need to deal a defenseman and get him some playing time.
We cannot simply use him whenever we want on a call up, as he is now subject to waivers.

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08-04-2010, 02:56 PM
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This is what I want

Hecht-Connolly-Poms
?????-Roy-Vanek
Ennis-Nieds-Grier
Gerbe-Goose-Kaleta
x McCormick

Trading Stafford and Butler/Sekera to fill ?????

Neal, Clowe, Stoll, Backes, would all fit perfectly in that spot IMO. 20 goal guys who throw their weight around and forecheck aggressively.

Then there are short term solutions like Morrow AND Langenbrunner, but those teams will want to dump salary, not take on Stafford and a defensemen

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08-04-2010, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
false...

Clowes salary is 3.5
Stafford + Butler is 3.15 in salary
3.5 is still more than 3.15 though, and according to Darcy, they are already over budget.
Plus, dealing a forward + defenseman for a forward would leave us at a 20 man roster with more money spent, so that means any extra forwards or defenseman would only add to our problems.

Sure, it's a trade-off, but I am not sure if management would go for it.

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08-04-2010, 03:33 PM
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Also I'd think that the player we get in return can't be making more than 3M (salary, not cap hit) since I don't think the Sabres are going to add payroll. So no Scott Hartnell, no Ryane Clowe, etc.
Theoretically, if we were to do Stafford and Sekera for Hartnell, we'd only be adding $650k in actual salary while giving Philly $1.3 million in cap space.

Seems like a no-brainer to me, if the Flyers would go for it.

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08-04-2010, 03:33 PM
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Vanek played some of his best hockey last year playing RW

and Ennis is a playmaker to help be creative setting up Vanek and Roy

but ya it would all depend on who we would get hopefully a left winger
I didn't say that Vanek couldn't be a good RW but he is not proven in that position, its a fact.

And while I agree it may turn out good, it still looks bad to me. Where is the defence on that line, where is the physicality, where is the size. Two of the three are midgets...

I think a LW is actually the least likely given Darcy's comments about being loaded at the position.

I think if a guy is bought in either of the following is a good fit:

1. A typical '3rd line' C that is able to step up if Roy or more likely TC go down

2. A Hecht type to play on the top line with Roy/TV - either LW or RW is fine.

I don't have a problem playing Ennis on the third - its not like we will be running strict scoring lines and one strict shut down line.

jfb392 - I agree with the points you make.

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08-04-2010, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
This is what I want

Hecht-Connolly-Poms
?????-Roy-Vanek
Ennis-Nieds-Grier
Gerbe-Goose-Kaleta
x McCormick

Trading Stafford and Butler/Sekera to fill ?????
Pretty much the lines I'd start with if we got Hartnell for Stafford and Sekera.

Hecht-Connolly-Pominville
Hartnell-Roy-Vanek
Ennis-Niedermayer-Grier
McCormick-Gaustad-Kaleta
Gerbe

If Ennis progress really well, I'd look at putting him in place or Roy or Connolly at some point. Either try Roy on 3rd line C/LW, or Connolly as 3rd line C to limit his minutes/potential for injury.

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08-04-2010, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlr View Post
Theoretically, if we were to do Stafford and Sekera for Hartnell, we'd only be adding $650k in actual salary while giving Philly $1.3 million in cap space.

Seems like a no-brainer to me, if the Flyers would go for it.

Yeah, looking for real dollar vs. real dollar deals is probably a better shopping bet with the Sabres. Since both Rej and Drew are more than their respective cap hits, finding a team in need of space but with deeper pockets would be a more needful fit. If Buffalo takes on empty cap space but is paying relatively less in real dollars... they may just go for that. Especially if the difference is around a league minimum contract.

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08-04-2010, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
3.5 is still more than 3.15 though, and according to Darcy, they are already over budget.
Plus, dealing a forward + defenseman for a forward would leave us at a 20 man roster with more money spent, so that means any extra forwards or defenseman would only add to our problems.

Sure, it's a trade-off, but I am not sure if management would go for it.
It would leave 22 including Gerbe,Ennis and Weber.

and while three and a half may look slightly high I think they could manage it, particular if it was a mid season move.

Hartnell is one guy I definately wouldn't want though.

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08-04-2010, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jlr View Post
Theoretically, if we were to do Stafford and Sekera for Hartnell, we'd only be adding $650k in actual salary while giving Philly $1.3 million in cap space.

Seems like a no-brainer to me, if the Flyers would go for it.
The Sabres are already over budget. 650K is no small change for them--they showed that when they decided to save roughly that amount on Kennedy.

The only thing they might consider is that Hartnell's remaining two years his salary decreases.

But Hartnell has an NTC. In other words, he ain't coming here.

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08-04-2010, 03:49 PM
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It would leave 22 including Gerbe,Ennis and Weber.

and while three and a half may look slightly high I think they could manage it, particular if it was a mid season move.

Hartnell is one guy I definately wouldn't want though.
Well, if we're going with 22, our roster consists of 12 forwards, 7 defensemen, 2 goalies and an extra somewhere.

If we traded two players for one, it'd take us down to 21, and that is still counting the extra player somewhere (I didn't count that initially).

Gerbe would be the likely extra, and I had already counted Ennis, but adding Weber is taking on salary, so you're looking at a little over 4.1 in real money and almost 4.1 in cap hit from adding Clowe plus bringing in Weber.

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08-04-2010, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
The Sabres are already over budget. 650K is no small change for them--they showed that when they decided to save roughly that amount on Kennedy.

The only thing they might consider is that Hartnell's remaining two years his salary decreases.

But Hartnell has an NTC. In other words, he ain't coming here.
I think the roster spot (1way vs. 2way) was the deciding factor over money, but maybe I am missing the point.

However saying that, I think if anything they will look to trim a little bit from the payroll.

And I think people saying they would trade Sekera over Butler with the main reason being to save just a few hundred K will now be one of my pet hates.

Back on topic - are there any reclimation projects out there that Darcy would look at? Someone in a similar situation to Stafford maybe, in need of a change of scenery etc. A more risky option, but if DR thinks he is getting his 'fair value' in a trade, might he go down this route?

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