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Old
08-04-2010, 02:52 PM
  #26
jlr
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Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
The Sabres are already over budget. 650K is no small change for them--they showed that when they decided to save roughly that amount on Kennedy.
Oh, I know they're over their "projected" budget. Regier made a point of saying they were currently spending more than they were at this point last year, so that leads me to believe that the "projected budget" goes up as the season progresses, or maybe even once the season starts.

Wishful thinking? Probably.

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Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
But Hartnell has an NTC. In other words, he ain't coming here.
Yeah, take the usual Buffalo/Sabres management stigma, and throw in whatever he's heard from Briere and Biron, and it certainly doesn't seem very likely.

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08-04-2010, 02:55 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin View Post
And I think people saying they would trade Sekera over Butler with the main reason being to save just a few hundred K will now be one of my pet hates.
It's not just the salary - it's the whole history he has with Ruff, where he asked to be taken out of the lineup, and Ruff seemed to take that into account for a long time afterwards. He might still be doing it. If that's the case, and if Ruff has some say in who comes and goes - Sekera seems like a more likely candidate than Butler.

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08-04-2010, 02:56 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Well, if we're going with 22, our roster consists of 12 forwards, 7 defensemen, 2 goalies and an extra somewhere.

If we traded two players for one, it'd take us down to 21, and that is still counting the extra player somewhere (I didn't count that initially).

Gerbe would be the likely extra, and I had already counted Ennis, but adding Weber is taking on salary, so you're looking at a little over 4.1 in real money and almost 4.1 in cap hit from adding Clowe plus bringing in Weber.
I am not talking about bringing in Clowe. I was just talking about numbers

Assuming Butler and Stafford are moved for xxx

Vanek-Roy-xxx
Hecht-Connolly-Pominville
Ennis-Niedermayer-Grier
Gerbe-Gaustad-Kaleta
McCormick

Morrisonn-Myers
Leopold-Montador
Sekera-Rivet
Butler

Miller
Lalime

I count that as 22... I wouldn't expect ANY of Gerbe/Ennis or Weber to be sent down.


Quote:
It's not just the salary - it's the whole history he has with Ruff, where he asked to be taken out of the lineup, and Ruff seemed to take that into account for a long time afterwards. He might still be doing it. If that's the case, and if Ruff has some say in who comes and goes - Sekera seems like a more likely candidate than Butler.
That is fine - but I have seen a number of times people giving the reason to be purely financial.

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08-04-2010, 03:02 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin View Post
I think the roster spot (1way vs. 2way) was the deciding factor over money, but maybe I am missing the point.

However saying that, I think if anything they will look to trim a little bit from the payroll.

And I think people saying they would trade Sekera over Butler with the main reason being to save just a few hundred K will now be one of my pet hates.

Back on topic - are there any reclimation projects out there that Darcy would look at? Someone in a similar situation to Stafford maybe, in need of a change of scenery etc. A more risky option, but if DR thinks he is getting his 'fair value' in a trade, might he go down this route?
Jonathan Cheechoo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin View Post
I am not talking about bringing in Clowe. I was just talking about numbers

Assuming Butler and Stafford are moved for xxx

Vanek-Roy-xxx
Hecht-Connolly-Pominville
Ennis-Niedermayer-Grier
Gerbe-Gaustad-Kaleta
McCormick

Morrisonn-Myers
Leopold-Montador
Sekera-Rivet
Butler

Miller
Lalime

I count that as 22... I wouldn't expect ANY of Gerbe/Ennis or Weber to be sent down.




That is fine - but I have seen a number of times people giving the reason to be purely financial.
Well, now that Kennedy is gone, I assume Gerbe will be on the team, but Weber is still a question mark.
It's been discussed lately, but Weber has to pretty much make the team or he'll be stuck in Portland because of waivers, and we'd probably need to trade to make that possible.

The only reason I brought up number was because we'd be paying more money for less players in the case of Clowe, which I just don't see management liking that idea.


Last edited by jfb392: 08-04-2010 at 03:07 PM.
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08-04-2010, 03:08 PM
  #30
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"are there any reclimation projects out there that Darcy would look at?"

i'd like to give Patty O' Sullivan a look UFA...might come cheap...problem is that add mores $/another player to the mix

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08-04-2010, 03:13 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabreality View Post
"are there any reclimation projects out there that Darcy would look at?"

i'd like to give Patty O' Sullivan a look UFA...might come cheap...problem is that add mores $/another player to the mix
If they're looking for cheap and a possible 2-way contract player to fill the "Chris Taylor" role... Ryan Potulny.

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08-04-2010, 03:48 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
3.5 is still more than 3.15 though, and according to Darcy, they are already over budget.
Plus, dealing a forward + defenseman for a forward would leave us at a 20 man roster with more money spent, so that means any extra forwards or defenseman would only add to our problems.

Sure, it's a trade-off, but I am not sure if management would go for it.
Sekera ($1.25m real dollars) and Stafford ($2.3m real dollars) make more total dollars ($3.55m) than Clowe ($3.5m) does this season. Both are RFA next summer, and both will, presumably, be seeking a raise. Clowe is locked in at $3.5 for the next two seasons, and makes $4.0m in the final deal of his deal, which, by then, shouldn't be an issue because several contracts will be off the books by then.

Still, I don't expect to see a major move made. I can envision a scenario where Sekera loses that final LD spot to Weber or Butler, and they trade him for a pick before the season.

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08-04-2010, 03:50 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Sekera ($1.25m real dollars) and Stafford ($2.3m real dollars) make more total dollars ($3.55m) than Clowe ($3.5m) does this season. Both are RFA next summer, and both will, presumably, be seeking a raise. Clowe is locked in at $3.5 for the next two seasons, and makes $4.0m in the final deal of his deal, which, by then, shouldn't be an issue because several contracts will be off the books by then.

Still, I don't expect to see a major move made. I can envision a scenario where Sekera loses that final LD spot to Weber or Butler, and they trade him for a pick before the season.
yea, that would work perfectly

Clowe-Roy-Vanek
Hecht-Connolly-Poms
Ennis-Nieds-Grier
McCormick-Goose-Kaleta
x Gerbe

Morrisonn-Myers
Leopold-Montador
Butler-Rivet
x Weber

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Old
08-04-2010, 04:02 PM
  #34
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I saw a few people project Gerbe as the extra forward, so though this is a little bit OT, here goes. Does anyone think Ellis/Mair or a similar 13th forward type will be brought in on a two-way deal with a cheap NHL salary in case Gerbe doesn't make the everyday lineup? If Gerbe makes the everyday lineup, that player would be sent to Portland (assuming he clears waivers). If Gerbe doesn't make the everyday lineup, then we save ~$300,000 by keeping the other player around as the 13th forward because Gerbe's NHL salary is $850,000. Mancari could be a possibility to fill this role, but I see him bolting to Europe before signing a two-way deal.

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08-04-2010, 04:06 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Kaleta36 View Post
I saw a few people project Gerbe as the extra forward, so though this is a little bit OT, here goes. Does anyone think Ellis/Mair or a similar 13th forward type will be brought in on a two-way deal with a cheap NHL salary in case Gerbe doesn't make the everyday lineup? If Gerbe makes the everyday lineup, that player would be sent to Portland (assuming he clears waivers). If Gerbe doesn't make the everyday lineup, then we save ~$300,000 by keeping the other player around as the 13th forward because Gerbe's NHL salary is $850,000. Mancari could be a possibility to fill this role, but I see him bolting to Europe before signing a two-way deal.
IF they think Gerbe is not quite there yet, I absolutely think this will happen.

Arron Asham would be my first choice, though I doubt he signs two way and for league minimum. Someone like Steve Begin maybe?

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08-04-2010, 05:11 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin View Post
IF they think Gerbe is not quite there yet, I absolutely think this will happen.

Arron Asham would be my first choice, though I doubt he signs two way and for league minimum. Someone like Steve Begin maybe?
Even if they think Gerbe is ready, it's a move that can't hurt us because it would bolster the depth in Portland. With all the free agents out there competing for so few roster spots around the league, I have to think there are some decent players that would take the chance to compete for a 13th forward spot. Asham would be a great pickup, but I think he can get a one-way deal somewhere. Some guys that catch my eye are Begin, Colin Stuart, Matt Hendricks, Ryan Potulny (good call on that, Chainshot, I was surprised when the Oilers didn't qualify him), Nick Tarnasky, Dean McAmmond, Richard Park (probably can get a one-way deal somewhere), Cheechoo, Asham (I bet he'll get a one-way deal), Petteri Nokelainen, Ortmeyer, Stephane Veilleux, Primeau, and Wellwood (I really think he'll get a one-way deal from a rebuilding team or bolt to Europe, but if he somehow slips through the cracks I think he could crack our regular lineup or put up a great competition in training camp). Wellwood and Asham are probably unattainable for this role, but the others all are potentially solid options.

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08-04-2010, 05:30 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin View Post
Assuming Butler and Stafford are moved for xxx

Vanek-Roy-xxx
Hecht-Connolly-Pominville
Ennis-Niedermayer-Grier
Gerbe-Gaustad-Kaleta
McCormick

Morrisonn-Myers
Leopold-Montador
Sekera-Rivet
Butler

Miller
Lalime

I count that as 22... I wouldn't expect ANY of Gerbe/Ennis or Weber to be sent down.
I'm confused - you're anticipating Butler & Stafford to be traded for "x" yet are including Butler in your count of 22 roster players...?

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08-04-2010, 05:51 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
I'm confused - you're anticipating Butler & Stafford to be traded for "x" yet are including Butler in your count of 22 roster players...?
Sorry, I meant Weber. I find it difficult to think he will not at least make the team as a no.7


There are some nice names listed there. I would expect (hope) they make a move like this at the very least.

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08-04-2010, 06:02 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Let's compile a list of players we could possibly get for a package of Stafford and Butler, or Stafford and Sekera.

Keep it simple... 1 player in return.

Ryan Clowe
James Neal
David Backes, 26, 6'-3", 220, $2.5M for 1 more year
Brad Boyes, 28, 6'-0", 195, $4M for 2 more years
David Moss, 28, 6'-3", 205, $1.3M for 2 more years

If another player were added to Stafford + Sekera/Butler to even out the salaries and make the package more fair for the other team, some long-shots:

Brendan Morrow, 31, 6'-0", 205, $4.1M for 3 more years *
Ryan Malone, 30, 6'-4", 216, $4.5M for 5 more years

* Possibility because of Dallas ownership issues/budget cap?

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08-05-2010, 09:14 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Let's compile a list of players we could possibly get for a package of Stafford and Butler, or Stafford and Sekera.

Keep it simple... 1 player in return.

Ryan Clowe
James Neal
I personally prefer Clowe he is 27 he has got size 6-2 225 there is the package that I feel will get the job done.

To San Jose: F Drew Stafford, D Andrej Sekera, 2nd Round Pick

To Sabres: F Ryan Clowe, 4th Round Pick

The Only problem is the we have to take a little back return and I am not sure if Reiger and company want to do that. The salary difference is 725K so who knows how they would feel about that.


Ennis-Roy-Vanek
Clowe-Connolly-Pominville
Hecht-Gaustad-Grier
Gerbe-Niedermayer-Kaleta
X McCormick

Looks pretty good I think at least.

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08-05-2010, 09:43 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boarwarrior27 View Post
I personally prefer Clowe he is 27 he has got size 6-2 225 there is the package that I feel will get the job done.

To San Jose: F Drew Stafford, D Andrej Sekera, 2nd Round Pick

To Sabres: F Ryan Clowe, 4th Round Pick

The Only problem is the we have to take a little back return and I am not sure if Reiger and company want to do that. The salary difference is 725K so who knows how they would feel about that.


Ennis-Roy-Vanek
Clowe-Connolly-Pominville
Hecht-Gaustad-Grier
Gerbe-Niedermayer-Kaleta
X McCormick

Looks pretty good I think at least.
actually we take back nothing
using salary figures:
Stafford 2.3 + Sekera 1.25 = 3.55
Clowe = 3.5

When you consider that Stafford and Sekera are both RFA who could get significant raises... and Clowe is locked in for 3.5 the following year, and 4.0 in his 4th year... well simply, the deal makes TOO MUCH sense... which is why it will never happen

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08-05-2010, 09:49 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boarwarrior27 View Post
I personally prefer Clowe he is 27 he has got size 6-2 225 there is the package that I feel will get the job done.

To San Jose: F Drew Stafford, D Andrej Sekera, 2nd Round Pick

To Sabres: F Ryan Clowe, 4th Round Pick

The Only problem is the we have to take a little back return and I am not sure if Reiger and company want to do that. The salary difference is 725K so who knows how they would feel about that.


Ennis-Roy-Vanek
Clowe-Connolly-Pominville
Hecht-Gaustad-Grier
Gerbe-Niedermayer-Kaleta
X McCormick

Looks pretty good I think at least.
I like it
minus McCormick sitting for Gerbe

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08-05-2010, 09:53 AM
  #43
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As to the posts above re: signing Mair / Ellis to a 2-way, or one of the other players mentioned above, to provide F-depth and help round out Portland. Yes, possible.

Another scenario, which I and others pointed out is Sekera might play some games at forward to give him skating time. Same also with Montador. Economical solution.

Of course, they could do both, sign some bottom guys to two-ways, stash them in Portland until needed (e.g., weekday NHL callups during the AHL season), and play the "4th pairing" D-men at forward (e.g., weekend NHL games when the AHL team would be shorted by callups).

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08-05-2010, 10:49 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by brian_griffin View Post
As to the posts above re: signing Mair / Ellis to a 2-way, or one of the other players mentioned above, to provide F-depth and help round out Portland. Yes, possible.

Another scenario, which I and others pointed out is Sekera might play some games at forward to give him skating time. Same also with Montador. Economical solution.

Of course, they could do both, sign some bottom guys to two-ways, stash them in Portland until needed (e.g., weekday NHL callups during the AHL season), and play the "4th pairing" D-men at forward (e.g., weekend NHL games when the AHL team would be shorted by callups).
Then we are not a contending team....

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08-05-2010, 11:18 AM
  #45
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Then we are not a contending team....
Hey, I have my LQ / DR hat on today, not my fan-boy propeller beanie.

And I'm speculating, too.

Regardless, I'm not sure a defenseman getting ~6 minutes of ice time at forward in ~30 games has an opportunity cost of 10 points in the standings.

But I still think it clearly fits in the budget, and avoids taking up a roster slot which may be allocated later to a pre-deadline acquisition, (especially if the number of 1-way contract bodies headed to the Sabres are more than the bodies headed out).

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08-05-2010, 11:21 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
actually we take back nothing
using salary figures:
Stafford 2.3 + Sekera 1.25 = 3.55
Clowe = 3.5

When you consider that Stafford and Sekera are both RFA who could get significant raises... and Clowe is locked in for 3.5 the following year, and 4.0 in his 4th year... well simply, the deal makes TOO MUCH sense... which is why it will never happen
I just have a question you have the salary figures at Stafford 2.3 and Sekera 1.25 & Clowe 3.5 according to capgeek.com Stafford is at 1.9 with no bonuses and Sekera is at 1.0 with no bonuses and Clowe 3.625 so that would leave a 725 K take back. Now I believe that we can back a little back because I am not sure I buy the whole we are over budget reasoning and here is why.

OUT:
Lydman: 2,875 M
Ellis: 500 K
Mair: 758 K
Kennedy: 850 K
Tallinder: 2,562 M
Lalimeís 09 salary 1M
Grierís 09 salary 1.2 M
5.875

IN
Leopold 3 M
Ennis 875 K
Morrisonn 2,075 M
Niedermayer 1,350 M
Lalime 700 K
Kennedyís Buyout 333 K
Grierís 10 salary 1,600 M
9.933

We have taken on about 4.1 million in salary from last year so maybe we take a little more on.

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08-05-2010, 11:33 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boarwarrior27 View Post
I just have a question you have the salary figures at Stafford 2.3 and Sekera 1.25 & Clowe 3.5 according to capgeek.com Stafford is at 1.9 with no bonuses and Sekera is at 1.0 with no bonuses and Clowe 3.625 so that would leave a 725 K take back. Now I believe that we can back a little back because I am not sure I buy the whole we are over budget reasoning and here is why.

OUT:
Lydman: 2,875 M
Ellis: 500 K
Mair: 758 K
Kennedy: 850 K
Tallinder: 2,562 M
Lalime’s 09 salary 1M
Grier’s 09 salary 1.2 M
5.875

IN
Leopold 3 M
Ennis 875 K
Morrisonn 2,075 M
Niedermayer 1,350 M
Lalime 700 K
Kennedy’s Buyout 333 K
Grier’s 10 salary 1,600 M
9.933

We have taken on about 4.1 million in salary from last year so maybe we take a little more on.
you are looking at the cap number... and not the actual salary...click on "show salaries".

Stafford is 1.9 on cap, but made 1.5 last year, and make 2.3 this year. total contract 3.8 over 2 years = 1.9 cap.

same for Sekera, he made.750 last year, and makes 1.25 this year, = 1.0 cap hit.

the sabres have an internal spending cap, so its more accurate to look at salaries, instead of cap hits.

other examples :
Vanek has a 7.143 cap hit, but only makes 6.4 mil this year.

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08-05-2010, 11:41 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
you are looking at the cap number... and not the actual salary...click on "show salaries".

Stafford is 1.9 on cap, but made 1.5 last year, and make 2.3 this year. total contract 3.8 over 2 years = 1.9 cap.

same for Sekera, he made.750 last year, and makes 1.25 this year, = 1.0 cap hit.

the sabres have an internal spending cap, so its more accurate to look at salaries, instead of cap hits.

other examples :
Vanek has a 7.143 cap hit, but only makes 6.4 mil this year.
You are right I was looking at cap hit my fault. Back to Clowe for second another reason this may not work is because with the trade that leaves San Jose with 8 contracted defensemen.

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08-05-2010, 11:49 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boarwarrior27 View Post
You are right I was looking at cap hit my fault. Back to Clowe for second another reason this may not work is because with the trade that leaves San Jose with 8 contracted defensemen.
Jason Demers is on his ELC... can he be sent down?

Jay Leach is on a 500k contract and is a fringe NHLer/Career AHLer...

it's not like Sekera wouldn't been an improvement...

I dont think the defensemen issue is an impediment.... the real problem is that Clowe is a valuable player, the type every team is looking for... i doubt they trade Clowe for our two young spare parts who granted still have a ton of potential, but overall... probably a downgrade for San Jose.

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08-05-2010, 11:54 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by boarwarrior27 View Post
You are right I was looking at cap hit my fault. Back to Clowe for second another reason this may not work is because with the trade that leaves San Jose with 8 contracted defensemen.
I don't think the Sabres would have a problem with that trade but I think SJ would. Even if they were moving Clowe, I think someone would offer more. He seems highly rated.

I still like the idea of Zubrus for Stafford. NJ may actually be one of the teams that want Stafford (Parise/Zajac), Zubrus has played for Buffalo before and did well, and brings a lot of what the top 6 needs. The Sabres add $1.1m in payroll with a player to dump, with the bonus of having a longer term contract, and NJ cuts $1.3m without losing a roster spot and has more flexibility after this season. We add a 3rd rounder or something to balance and then try to get that pick back by moving a D-man.

It just seems to suit both teams well.

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