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Kaberle Still a Leaf: Three Deals That Can Change That

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Old
08-04-2010, 09:32 PM
  #101
grabo84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denkiteki View Post
Debatable list but i'm sure every non-Leaf fan can compile their own list of 30 preferred dman over Kabs! $ is not considered here since you are saying #1 dman over Kabs and not rather or not they have more value.

(without a doubt)
Mike Green
Duncan Keith
Drew Doughty
Dan Boyle
Chris Pronger
Sergei Gonchar
Mark Streit
Nicklas Lidstrom
Chara
Myers

(likely without a doubt)
Weber
Pitkanen
Visnovsky
Ehrhoff

Suter
Yandle
Campbell

Seabrook
Markov

(debatable but i would take them)
Bouwmeester
Timonen
McCabe
Rafalski
Elder
Ballard
Johnson (Erik)
Volchenkov
Enstrom
Staal

(close)
Robidas
Hamhuis
Phaneuf
Schenn
Visnovsky
Giordano

Pretty much would prefer all of those (and probably missed a few) before Kabs due to him being a pure offensive dmans. If a team values offense more than any other element, than you could argue Kabs has more value to them tham others. If a team values overall play instead of pure offensive abilities, they probably would take most of that list (including 2 other Leafs) before Kabs. If a team wants to focus on shutdown, they are not going to even get close to Kabs.

And if you go into the argument of top 30 value, remember there are quite a few top prospects that probably could be ranked higher in terms of value than Kab.
Bolded a few that are out of place, and then I just gave up. Schenn? Giordano? Hamhuis? Ballard?? Get real, that's one of the worst lists I've ever seen.

Edit: Best of all, I just realized McCabe made the list. Wow...

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08-04-2010, 09:35 PM
  #102
hatterson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Bolded a few that are out of place, and then I just gave up. Schenn? Giordano? Hamhuis? Ballard?? Get real, that's one of the worst lists I've ever seen.

Edit: Best of all, I just realized McCabe made the list. Wow...
Well according to that list the Leafs have 3 top 35 dmen in the league

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08-04-2010, 09:38 PM
  #103
grabo84
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Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
Well according to that list the Leafs have 3 top 35 dmen in the league
Also, Visnovsky is both "likely without a doubt" and "close".

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08-04-2010, 10:29 PM
  #104
denkiteki
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Bolded a few that are out of place, and then I just gave up. Schenn? Giordano? Hamhuis? Ballard?? Get real, that's one of the worst lists I've ever seen.

Edit: Best of all, I just realized McCabe made the list. Wow...
Personal preference and i have stated that Kab is a top 30 not saying he's 36 or 37 or whatever. Offensive, you could easily argue Kabs is a top 10 but personally i value other elements of the game too, not just offensive numbers. As such, Kabs value is much lower. He can't play defense (almost Mike Green level), doesn't hit or provide anything beside his offensive game and ended the year very poorly. All things considered, Kabs' value is at an all time low (for him) and will likely start dropping again once his trade window closes.

Schenn - Due to his upside and better defensive play right now. By the end of the year, you could argue he was ahead of Kabs in the Leafs very own depth chart.

Giordano is really under-rated, if you watch him play... you'll see his value. He had a breakout year last year and will likely be better. Ballard is near the top of the league in both hits and block shots, probably the best hip checker in the league. With a good team, he could also easily be a 40pt dman (and what MG expects out of him). Hamhuis is also around the leagues best in terms of hitting, one of the better defensive dmans and can move the puck. Again valuing defense and puck moving over pure offensive dmans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
Well according to that list the Leafs have 3 top 35 dmen in the league
Leafs have a solid defense but its not a pure ranking nor the only players i would take over Kabs. With almost 25 mil spent on dmans (one of the highest total in the NHL), you better hope the Leafs have a solid defense or else Burke should be fired... not be the highest paid GM. More Leafs were mention since i think both those dmans were ahead of Kabs in their very own depth chart.

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Old
08-04-2010, 11:51 PM
  #105
BeautyDuster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denkiteki View Post
Personal preference and i have stated that Kab is a top 30 not saying he's 36 or 37 or whatever. Offensive, you could easily argue Kabs is a top 10 but personally i value other elements of the game too, not just offensive numbers. As such, Kabs value is much lower. He can't play defense (almost Mike Green level), doesn't hit or provide anything beside his offensive game and ended the year very poorly.
Nobody is going to call Kaberle a rock em sock em do it all defensemen ala Pronger or Doughty, but as you identified, he is very good offensively. I find most of this Top (insert number) lists pretty useless and subjective. Having watched Kaberle for the last 11 years I have to say his defensive game is not terrible. Aspects of it are actually awe-inspiring. I don't think any player in the league is better at avoiding and fooling forecheckers. It is simply marvellous how well Kaberle can turn what looks like a successful dump-in to a clean breakout. While this isn't clearing the crease or putting opposing forwards through the boards, it is defence, and is incredibly valuable. Offence is the best defence sort of deal.

Furthermore, he is sound positionally. He can seperate players from pucks very effectively (again, look at Neidermayer or Lidstrom, don't have to crash the guy, just hit his hands and separate the man form the puck.)

I don't want to see Kaberle go. I love watching his silky smooth game. I love cursing at other Leaf players telling them to give the puck to Kaberle so we can actually set something up on the powerplay. I love watching him make those passes that you wish everyone would. I love making fun of his baby-face.

As much as we need a forward, he will be missed sorely. Next off season, Leafs fans will be clamouring for a puck moving defensemen.

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Old
08-05-2010, 12:29 AM
  #106
Prophet Kadri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denkiteki View Post
Debatable list but i'm sure every non-Leaf fan can compile their own list of 30 preferred dman over Kabs! $ is not considered here since you are saying #1 dman over Kabs and not rather or not they have more value.

(without a doubt)
Mike Green
Duncan Keith
Drew Doughty
Dan Boyle
Chris Pronger
Sergei Gonchar
Mark Streit
Nicklas Lidstrom
Chara
Myers

(likely without a doubt)
Weber
Pitkanen
Ehrhoff
Suter
Yandle
Campbell
Seabrook

Markov

(debatable but i would take them)
Bouwmeester
Timonen
McCabe
Rafalski
Edler
Ballard

Johnson (Erik)
Volchenkov
Enstrom
Staal


(close)
Robidas
Hamhuis

Phaneuf
Schenn
Visnovsky
Giordano

Blue is debatable, Bold I take Kaberle.

Seabrook is largely a product of Keith, Campbell is a Kaberle clone, Erhoff played on 2 amazing teams in his only 40 point seasons. I'm not going through every player but Kaberle would get around 60+ points playing for Vancouver, San Jose etc.

Anyways you still need 9 d-men because without the bolded you have a list of 21.

Visnovski was used twice like someone else pointed out.


Last edited by Prophet Kadri: 08-05-2010 at 12:34 AM.
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