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Roenick: Crosby way more talented then Gretzky....

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01-30-2011, 11:49 AM
  #1
Kingjordan
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Roenick: Crosby way more talented then Gretzky....

So Jeremy Roenick says that Sid the Kid is way more talented than the Great One..

I just cant see how he can say he is way more talented with Wayne owning all these NHL records.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...wayne-gretzky/


Any thoughts??

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01-30-2011, 11:52 AM
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decadentia
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It's Jeremy Roenick, almost anything he says goes against the grain. That's why people love him, he's a loudmouth who is entertaining.

I disagree. This thread is going to be completely about "Players are better today blah blah"

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01-30-2011, 11:53 AM
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KareyPrice
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imho the game has changed a lot since wayne broke alot of those records the guys are bigger faster stronger goalie are more skilled I think crosby is more talented but he wont put up statstics like wayne imo...

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01-30-2011, 11:54 AM
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fly4apuckguy
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Making the age old mistake of comparing a player now to a player then.

If you go strictly on who they are/were at their primes, and plopped them into the same era at any nuetral point in history, I would say there is an argument that Crosby would end up being the better player.

But that is not a good way to evaluate, imo. I think you have to compare a player to his own generation, otherwise you disregard all the advancements made in the game from a technology and fitness aspect. Gretzky can't control that, and neither can Howe, the Rocket, or anyone from the past.

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01-30-2011, 11:54 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingjordan View Post
So Jeremy Roenick says that Sid the Kid is way more talented than the Great One..

I just cant see how he can say he is way more talented with Wayne owning all these NHL records.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...wayne-gretzky/


Any thoughts??

Roenick also believes that JR is one of the top 20 centers of all time. The man likes to get attention, that doesn't mean there is merit to anyting he says.

It is kinda like saying I am far more brilliant than Edison because I can create a complex spreadsheet and he had no idea how to even turn on a computer. Foolishness.


Last edited by Ogopogo*: 01-30-2011 at 12:05 PM.
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01-30-2011, 11:55 AM
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Mustang2750
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Wayne owns all those records b/c the NHL and goalies specifically SUCKED when he played.

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01-30-2011, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
Making the age old mistake of comparing a player now to a player then.

If you go strictly on who they are/were at their primes, and plopped them into the same era at any nuetral point in history, I would say there is an argument that Crosby would end up being the better player.

But that is not a good way to evaluate, imo. I think you have to compare a player to his own generation, otherwise you disregard all the advancements made in the game from a technology and fitness aspect. Gretzky can't control that, and neither can Howe, the Rocket, or anyone from the past.

Well Said.

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01-30-2011, 11:56 AM
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Xav
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Sometimes I think JR and Pronger have multiple accounts and account (no pun intented) for all the troll acconts on this board.

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01-30-2011, 11:56 AM
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Walkingthroughforest
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Hey Jeremy, how many cups did you win?

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01-30-2011, 11:58 AM
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Ugh, it's really not fair to compare across time like this. I mean, yes, Crosby is probably better trained, in better shape, and overall a better athlete but I dunno.

I mean look at the skills competition yesterday, the announcers were saying how "back in my day as a goalie, only a few players could get above 90 mph". The only thing still standing is Gartner's record but then again, we don't have the fastest skaters in the league at the all star game (Cogliano, Raymond, etc). If you go further back to the 72 Summit Series, those guys would smoke and drink between periods and do nothing in the off season because they had to work. Throwing 2010 Crosby back in time and he would be unstoppable but then if Gretzky was born in 1990 and had today's training and technology, he could be even more dominant than Crosby. Who knows.

Even if you compare to the 2nd place guy or to the average player, there's no guarantee because the average player has gotten so much better and goaltending has changed so much since Gretzky's time. There's a reason goal scoring is down like 30-40% from the 80s. I bet it's more evenly spread across the team too. Don't forget Gretzky often averaged over 25-26 minutes a game, Crosby plays 20% less than that. There's simply no surefire way to compare though anyone is entitled to their opinion (I personally think Orr's best seasons were the most dominant of all time).

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01-30-2011, 11:58 AM
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Hes probably right. Gretzky has much better passing ability and hockey sense. I'm convinced Crosby the way hes playing now could beat 92 goals with the same lineup in the 80s. He has a better shot Crosby is more explosive skating as well. So Gretzky would outpoint him probably but Crosby could get near those goal totals all things considered

Like look at this video... 4:57... 1:45....1:09...2:15
Those goalies are a joke. One of those backhand sequences by Crosby would always result in a goal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTliAjNiS7A

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01-30-2011, 12:02 PM
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Walkingthroughforest
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If Crosby was born in 1961 and had the same training as Gretzky, I seriously doubt he would be better the Gretzky, Lemieux, Kurri, ect.

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01-30-2011, 12:03 PM
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fly4apuckguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProdigalOne View Post
Hes probably right. Gretzky has much better passing ability and hockey sense. I'm convinced Crosby the way hes playing now could beat 92 goals with the same lineup in the 80s. He has a better shot Crosby is more explosive skating as well. So Gretzky would outpoint him probably but Crosby could get near those goal totals all things considered
That's all just speculation.

Give Crosby 1982 equipment, a Sherwood 5030 wooden stick, a Jofa helmet, a 1982 Oilers training regimen and a mullet and then we can start comparing.

Until then, it is pointless.

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01-30-2011, 12:06 PM
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Stanley Foobrick
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Jeremy wants people to talk about.................Jeremy.

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01-30-2011, 12:06 PM
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BELLE TIRE
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I wonder how many actually read the article. Reading it might save this thread from turning into another flamefest.

Quote:
Roenick said that Sidney Crosby is “way more talented” than Gretzky was when Roenick spoke on a recent radio show. Of course, Roenick also points to that hockey IQ when discussing Gretzky’s success, so it’s not as if he’s disparaging “The Great One.”

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01-30-2011, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
That's all just speculation.

Give Crosby 1982 equipment, a Sherwood 5030 wooden stick, a Jofa helmet, a 1982 Oilers training regimen and a mullet and then we can start comparing.

Until then, it is pointless.
One things for sure, he was the most dominant among his peers. But if we are taking straight athletics I would be surprised if a prime Gretzky could compete with Crosby.

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01-30-2011, 12:09 PM
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The Bored Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
That's all just speculation.

Give Crosby 1982 equipment, a Sherwood 5030 wooden stick, a Jofa helmet, a 1982 Oilers training regimen and a mullet and then we can start comparing.

Until then, it is pointless.
Exactly. Controlling for equipment and training is the only way to judge great players separated by so many years.

Although, I think Gretzky was better because he dominated his peers like Crosby hasn't been able to do.

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01-30-2011, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ProdigalOne View Post
One things for sure, he was the most dominant among his peers. But if we are taking straight athletics I would be surprised if a prime Gretzky could compete with Crosby.
Yes, but that is just a stupid comparison. You are penalizing someone for being born when they were; it is plain stupidity and completely irrelevant.

I would be shocked if Crosby could compete with my great grandchildren.


Last edited by Ogopogo*: 01-30-2011 at 12:19 PM.
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01-30-2011, 12:12 PM
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fly4apuckguy
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Originally Posted by ProdigalOne View Post
One things for sure, he was the most dominant among his peers. But if we are taking straight athletics I would be surprised if a prime Gretzky could compete with Crosby.
I don't disagree with you one bit. I think most of today's players are far more athletic than those of days gone by.

An NHL player I know is given a daily workout regimen during the summer and told to keep his weight within a certain 5 pound range.

Can you imagine someone telling that to Grant Fuhr or Phil Esposito?

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01-30-2011, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BoredMan View Post
Exactly. Controlling for equipment and training is the only way to judge great players separated by so many years.

Although, I think Gretzky was better because he dominated his peers like Crosby hasn't been able to do.
There was alot more room for error. Watch that Grezky video... he could afford to be off alot of the time and still score. Now with bloated equipment and tougher defense you need a perfect shot, rebound, tip in, etc. A lead of 10 points on the competition which Crosby had this year was getting into dominant territory especially considering he was on pace for around 60 goals.

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01-30-2011, 12:16 PM
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Trottier
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Originally Posted by Mustang2750 View Post
Wayne owns all those records b/c the NHL and goalies specifically SUCKED when he played.
Oh, the generalities....

All goalies "sucked," eh? Funny coming from a reputed NYI fan.

Do tell - post-lockout name one playoff goaltender who's postseason has come near that of Billy Smith, circa 1980-83? (You can't.) That's just one example.

Now, the butterfly style has clearly impacted the collected play of NHL goaltenders, for the better (for them).

But lazy cliches are...lazy.

Yep, #99 was simply a benefactor of his times.

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01-30-2011, 12:18 PM
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I Hate Chris Butler
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Of course the goalies sucked back then. It's why every other star in the 80s has 10 Art Ross trophies, 9 Harts, and scored 200+ points on a regular basis.

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01-30-2011, 12:18 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang2750 View Post
Wayne owns all those records b/c the NHL and goalies specifically SUCKED when he played.


It is amazing that the goalies only sucked against Gretzky but they tightened things up against everyone else.

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01-30-2011, 12:19 PM
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ThirdManIn
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JR says things in front of a camera to get a rise out of his fellow analysts and the viewers. I don't think anyone should ever take the guy seriously.

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01-30-2011, 12:21 PM
  #25
8spokesontheB
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Gretzky's vision, shot accuracy, and "clutch factor" were superior. I think Sid is a better skater, checker, and an equally good passer.

He'll likely never have the career that Wayne had, but I can see where JR's coming from. Only he and Mario have ever warranted the talent-comparison to me in my hockey watching days.

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