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Are the habs destined to fail for 2010/2011

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Old
08-04-2010, 11:55 PM
  #26
BenchBrawl
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Our line-up is average at best

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Old
08-04-2010, 11:57 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
Our line-up is average at best
Our top 6 is above average I'd say.

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08-05-2010, 12:04 AM
  #28
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The whole notion is mindless fatalism. The Habs will have something to say about they own destiny.

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08-05-2010, 01:17 AM
  #29
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
Whether there was a huge change in the game is really irrelevant to what I'm presenting. There were cinderella stories before the lockout and there are cinderella stories after the lockout. You can draw some parallels between the 2003 ducks and the 2010 habs. Giguere was playing out of his mind, the team was ranked 8th and took out the powerhouse wings, and then the stars with very stingy and systematic play.

As for your analysis of the habs, yeah, there weren't many changes in numbers, but the magnitude of the halak deal can be quite big compared to 3 or 4 smaller deals. Price needs to answer a ton of questions.

I think I need to make it clear that this analysis is strictly a look at the following season after an unlikely run. This does NOT necessarily mean that I think the habs are going in the wrong direction in the big picture.
There's a long stretch between let's say, losing in the 2nd round (very plausible) and being destined to fail which is your thread title name.

You can draw many parallels to many teams, doesn't mean it'll happen again.

Even if Halak were still here, you can't expect a goalie to play MVP like every PO series. Not even Patrick Roy with his three Conn Smythe was able to do repeat MVP performances in the POs.
That doesn't mean we will fail, nor does it necessarily mean we can't play better than last season.

I think we will have a much better season unless we're hit yet again with a big injury bug (unlikely considering the type of injuries we suffered). As far as the POs goes, I think last year perfectly proved the good old saying ''anything can happen in the POs'', so really who knows..

But I think people should look to next season with an optimistic and positive view.

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Old
08-05-2010, 08:37 AM
  #30
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Depends on goaltending.

There is one very big if to this upcoming season, our yet unsigned goaltender.
If he can provide legitimate NHL goaltending then we can have a very good team for the following reason.
This is the second season for the coaching staff and for the players who were brought in as part of last year's rebuild. With the parity now evident in today's NHL you can't expect to win unless you are firing on all cylinders. Ever take an extended time off from some sport, and notice how long it takes to get your coordination and timing back. This year our coaching staff and our team should all be on the same page. The players should be adapted to the "new" system and gradually as new players are added to complete the team, they are players intended to compliment the system. Martin, despite his reputation for being a defensive coach, likes to build on responsible speed and slowly our team is starting to fit that mould. If Price holds up we can have a very good team this year.

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08-05-2010, 08:39 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by McSorleyStick View Post
Don't forget that the playoffs marked the 1st time everybody was healthy that season

So we were actually better than 8th, maybe 5th had we been healthy
Who was betwween the pipes for the Habs ? THAT'S the difference.

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08-05-2010, 09:17 AM
  #32
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Would be nice to face the Flyers this year in the 1st round

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Old
08-05-2010, 09:19 AM
  #33
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We'll get Vinny!

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08-05-2010, 09:26 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Who was betwween the pipes for the Habs ? THAT'S the difference.
The GOAT, Jaroslav Halak

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Old
08-05-2010, 09:44 AM
  #35
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There'a lot of «ifs». We can't really base an analysis on the past, because we depend a lot on young players...

We could be a contender if:

Price play as a top15 goalie. (The most important)

Markov come back soon.

Subban play as a Calder candidate.

Eller play as expected. (40ish pts)

Boyd play as a great 3rd liner. (30ish pts)

Pouliot and AK46 play like they can. (top6)

I like Plekanec, but he still hasn't prove he can be a real #1 Cman.. .as for Gomez. (inconsistant in pts production, but they are still valuable players for us).

As you can see, there is too much «ifs». Other teams too, but I think we can say that Washington, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Vancouver, Hawks... etc are gonna be great again.

IMO, we'll battle for a playoff spot again.

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Old
08-05-2010, 11:32 AM
  #36
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Chicago lost in last year's Western Conference finals, to the eventual Cup losers in 5.
Montréal lost in this year's Eastern Conference finals, to the eventual Cup losers in 5.

Coincidence ??


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Old
08-05-2010, 12:04 PM
  #37
llamateizer
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legend
SCF = (stanley cup final (or fail))
CF = conference final
SCC = stanley cup champion

position team achievement ( year +1 , position, achievement)
in 2001 the devils finished 1st in conference and made it to the SCF.
in 2002 they managed to finish 6th and were eliminated in 1/4



2001

1 New Jersey Devils SCF (2002 6th eliminated 1/4)
6 Pittsburgh Penguins CF (2002 non playoffs)

1 Colorado Avalanche SCC (2002 2nd CF)
4 St. Louis Blues CF (2002 4th eliminated 1/2 )

2002

3 Carolina Hurricanes SCF (2003 non playoffs)
4 Toronto Maple Leafs CF (2003 5th eliminated 1/4)

1 Detroit Red Wings SCC (2003 2nd eliminated 1/4)
2 Colorado Avalanche CF (2003 non playoffs)


2003

1 Ottawa Senators CF (2004 5th eliminated 1/4)
2 New Jersey Devils SCC(2004 6th eliminated 1/4)

7 Anaheim Mighty Ducks SCF (2004 non playoffs)
6 Minnesota Wild CF (2004 non playoffs)



2004

1 Tampa Bay Lightning SCC (2006 8th eliminated 1/4)
3 Philadelphia Flyers CF (2006 non playoffs)

6 Calgary Flames SCF (2006 3rd eliminated 1/4)
2 San Jose Sharks CF (2006 5th eliminated 1/2)


2006

4 Buffalo Sabres CF (2007 1st CF)
2 Carolina Hurricanes SCC (2007 non playoffs)

8 Edmonton Oilers SCF (2007 non playoffs)
6 Anaheim Mighty Ducks CF (2007 2st SCC!! )


2007

1 Buffalo Sabres CF (2008 non playoffs)
4 Ottawa Senators SCF (2008 7th eliminated 1/4)

1 Detroit Red Wings CF (2008 1st SCC!!)
2 Anaheim Ducks SCC (2008 4th eliminated 1/4)


2008

6 Philadelphia Flyers CF (2009 5th eliminated 1/4)
2 Pittsburgh Penguins SCF (2009 4st SCC)

1 Detroit Red Wings SCC (2009 2nd SCF)
5 Dallas Stars CF (2009 non playoffs)

2009


6 Carolina Hurricanes CF (2010 non playoffs)

4 Pittsburgh Penguins SCC (2010 4th eliminated 1/2)

2 Detroit Red Wings SCF (2010 5th eliminated 1/2)
4 Chicago Blackhawks CF (2010 2nd SCC)


Teams finnished 5th to 8th since 2000-2001 to 2008-2009 who made it to at least the CF...
9 teams made it to the CF on 32 = 28%
the year after.
6 teams have not made the playoffs
2 teams eliminated in the 1/4
1 team wins the Stanley cup. (ducks)

In general
11 teams on 32 missed the playoffs after they made it to the CF (34%)

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Old
08-05-2010, 12:17 PM
  #38
BenchBrawl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
Our top 6 is above average I'd say.
strongly disagree , we have 6 good players if Pouliot have a good year , but we strongly lack gamebreaking talent.

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Old
08-05-2010, 12:46 PM
  #39
Clive Barley
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In my opinion you guys lost your biggest difference maker from the playoffs...(HM:Cammalleri, Gill)

And while you guys hopefully have a healthier season, other Eastern Conference teams improved;
Lightning(significantly)
Leafs(full season of Giguerre, Versteeg)
Pittsburgh(stronger D)
Ottawa(Gonchar helps, no homerism)

To a lesser degree;
Atlanta(more depth and character)
New Jersey (assuming they get a full use of Kovalchuk)

So I see the East being very competitive and other than teams named; Penguins, Flyers or Capitals, all teams have a shot at the other 5 spots.

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Old
08-05-2010, 01:49 PM
  #40
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Clive Barley View Post
In my opinion you guys lost your biggest difference maker from the playoffs...(HM:Cammalleri, Gill)

And while you guys hopefully have a healthier season, other Eastern Conference teams improved;
Lightning(significantly)
Leafs(full season of Giguerre, Versteeg)
Pittsburgh(stronger D)
Ottawa(Gonchar helps, no homerism)

To a lesser degree;
Atlanta(more depth and character)
New Jersey (assuming they get a full use of Kovalchuk)

So I see the East being very competitive and other than teams named; Penguins, Flyers or Capitals, all teams have a shot at the other 5 spots.
Lightning...That remains to be seen. So many changes, there's no way of predicting just how well everything will click, or not.

Leafs...Heard that last year as well. Giggy is old and Versteeg will be seen as their #1 offensive man along with Kessel. Big change for him considering he had Kane, Hossa, Toews and Sharp that needed to step up more than him. I think it will be another year of misery for Toronto, maybe not dead last, but they will miss the POs.

Pittsburgh...I disagree. Gonchar was key to them, not quite sure Martin will be better. The addition of Michalek helps for their poor depth but I don't think they got that better. That being said, even if they did improve, their poor quality of wingers was their weak point (that we clearly showed in POs) and they didn't address that.

Ottawa...Three question marks will need to be answered. How will Spezza perform??..Which Kovalev will show up this year??..and will LeClair claim back his spot? If all three of those players step up, then I see Ottawa possibly clinching the East.


Philly struggled last season without a goalie. They lost in the Finals due to poor goaltending. Still, they do not address that problem. They made the POs by a shootout last season. Traded away Gagné, brought in Zherdev..Don't understand why they should be a shoe in.

I think Carolina didn't make the POs last year due to injuries. I expect them to be better this season. It'll be interesting to see what happens. It should be another tight PO run.

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Old
08-05-2010, 01:54 PM
  #41
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I don't think we need to be worried about a playoff hangover causing the Habs to miss the playoffs.

The problem is that the Habs need to play a lot better than they did in either the regular season or the playoffs last year to make the playoffs next year. I think we can get agreement on at least this much...

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Old
08-05-2010, 02:31 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
strongly disagree , we have 6 good players if Pouliot have a good year , but we strongly lack gamebreaking talent.
I'd say Cammalleri is gamebreaking talent.

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Old
08-05-2010, 02:42 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
I'd say Cammalleri is gamebreaking talent.
We'll have to agree to disagree then

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Old
08-05-2010, 03:14 PM
  #44
Teufelsdreck
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Chicago lost in last year's Western Conference finals, to the eventual Cup losers in 5.
Montréal lost in this year's Eastern Conference finals, to the eventual Cup losers in 5.

Coincidence ??

Good you put in the emoticon. There's no comparison between the two teams.

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Old
08-05-2010, 03:14 PM
  #45
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The Habs were not a top level team going into last, even if they signed a bunch of free agents.

They are not a top level team this year either.

They will get into the playoffs if they will themselves there.

P.S. The Halak love has got to stop. My God. The guy has won 4 more playoff games then the guy everyone is ready to crucify...

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Old
08-05-2010, 03:51 PM
  #46
Clive Barley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Lightning...That remains to be seen. So many changes, there's no way of predicting just how well everything will click, or not.

Leafs...Heard that last year as well. Giggy is old and Versteeg will be seen as their #1 offensive man along with Kessel. Big change for him considering he had Kane, Hossa, Toews and Sharp that needed to step up more than him. I think it will be another year of misery for Toronto, maybe not dead last, but they will miss the POs.

Pittsburgh...I disagree. Gonchar was key to them, not quite sure Martin will be better. The addition of Michalek helps for their poor depth but I don't think they got that better. That being said, even if they did improve, their poor quality of wingers was their weak point (that we clearly showed in POs) and they didn't address that.

Ottawa...Three question marks will need to be answered. How will Spezza perform??..Which Kovalev will show up this year??..and will LeClair claim back his spot? If all three of those players step up, then I see Ottawa possibly clinching the East.


Philly struggled last season without a goalie. They lost in the Finals due to poor goaltending. Still, they do not address that problem. They made the POs by a shootout last season. Traded away Gagné, brought in Zherdev..Don't understand why they should be a shoe in.

I think Carolina didn't make the POs last year due to injuries. I expect them to be better this season. It'll be interesting to see what happens. It should be another tight PO run.
Lightning added veteran blueliners(Kubina won a cup with them on his last tour), a first line all situations left winger, improved their Goaltending depth, a winning coach & GM, and a bottom 6 guy who I know Habs fans were sad to see go(Moore)

Leafs... I agree everyone said they were better last year too, but I didn't say they would make the playoffs, just that they were improved from last year.

Pittsburgh - Gonchar will be missed, but Paul Martin is criminally underrated. Led the Devils in ice time the last 3 years and was their Powerplay QB. Playing with Crosby and Malkin should improve his numbers. Michalek is a great Defense first D-man who will definetly help their GAA. They're 2 years removed from winning the cup with crappy wingers, I think its a stretch to say that's why MTL beat them.

Ottawa's 3 big question marks(according to you) all underperformed last year and they still finished 5th in the EAST. I don't think I'm being a homer by saying the addition of Gonchar should help the powerplay and overall offense of the Sens this season. I don't see them claiming the East, but a NE championship isn't out of the realm of possibility.

Philly's goaltending woes definitely contributed to their struggles, but their locker room being divided was the major problem with their season. I think its fair to say that Laviolette brought them together so they wont be dealing with that again this year.

I agree with Carolina, with a healthy ward they will be much tougher opponent (just look at the 2nd half of their season)

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Old
08-05-2010, 06:06 PM
  #47
Serious HABit
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chicago blackhawks: conference finals
next year: cup

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Old
08-05-2010, 06:17 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Clive Barley View Post
Lightning added veteran blueliners(Kubina won a cup with them on his last tour), a first line all situations left winger, improved their Goaltending depth, a winning coach & GM, and a bottom 6 guy who I know Habs fans were sad to see go(Moore)

Leafs... I agree everyone said they were better last year too, but I didn't say they would make the playoffs, just that they were improved from last year.

Pittsburgh - Gonchar will be missed, but Paul Martin is criminally underrated. Led the Devils in ice time the last 3 years and was their Powerplay QB. Playing with Crosby and Malkin should improve his numbers. Michalek is a great Defense first D-man who will definetly help their GAA. They're 2 years removed from winning the cup with crappy wingers, I think its a stretch to say that's why MTL beat them.

Ottawa's 3 big question marks(according to you) all underperformed last year and they still finished 5th in the EAST. I don't think I'm being a homer by saying the addition of Gonchar should help the powerplay and overall offense of the Sens this season. I don't see them claiming the East, but a NE championship isn't out of the realm of possibility.

Philly's goaltending woes definitely contributed to their struggles, but their locker room being divided was the major problem with their season. I think its fair to say that Laviolette brought them together so they wont be dealing with that again this year.

I agree with Carolina, with a healthy ward they will be much tougher opponent (just look at the 2nd half of their season)
Lightning added a rookie coach, not a winning one. Doesn't matter what he previously accomplished, he now needs to do it in the NHL. So, I'd wait before calling him a winning coach. It doesn't matter who they added, it still is unknown how they will all stick together.

Leafs, well, they're the Leafs. Shouldn't be a threat.

Ottawa yes, they should be good. Which is why I said they'll clinch their division.

Pittsburgh got eliminated because we were able to shut down their two big superstars with the help of a hot goaltender.
They won't win the cup again unless they fix their wings, you can mark these words.

Philly didn't trade anybody last season when there was supposed locker room problems. If the same guys can fight one another, then I don't see why it wouldn't happen again.
We shall see.

Like you said, Ottawa had some issues but still managed to finish 5th. We struggled immensely as well (more so than Ottawa) and still pulled through.
So, no reason to think we should struggle more than any other team,.

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08-05-2010, 07:02 PM
  #49
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We'll have to agree to disagree then
Because leading goal scorer in the playoffs isn't gamebreaking...

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08-05-2010, 07:44 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Lightning added a rookie coach, not a winning one. Doesn't matter what he previously accomplished, he now needs to do it in the NHL. So, I'd wait before calling him a winning coach. It doesn't matter who they added, it still is unknown how they will all stick together.

Leafs, well, they're the Leafs. Shouldn't be a threat.

Ottawa yes, they should be good. Which is why I said they'll clinch their division.

Pittsburgh got eliminated because we were able to shut down their two big superstars with the help of a hot goaltender.
They won't win the cup again unless they fix their wings, you can mark these words.

Philly didn't trade anybody last season when there was supposed locker room problems. If the same guys can fight one another, then I don't see why it wouldn't happen again.
We shall see.

Like you said, Ottawa had some issues but still managed to finish 5th. We struggled immensely as well (more so than Ottawa) and still pulled through.
So, no reason to think we should struggle more than any other team,.
The Leafs don't necessarily have to be a threat to make life difficult for Montreal. If they had scored one more goal against Montreal, the Habs could have missed the playoffs. That is why you have to be aware of how much the poorer teams have improved.

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