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Old
08-05-2010, 10:26 AM
  #76
llamateizer
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we'll finnish last then!!
we should bring back Chipchura
he had more fights than the girlfriend of Laraque (Boogard)

Having a goon is so important
there was like 0 fight during the playoffs

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08-05-2010, 10:30 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by husamus156 View Post
we'll finnish last then!!
we should bring back Chipchura
he had more fights than the girlfriend of Laraque (Boogard)

Having a goon is so important
there was like 0 fight during the playoffs
Ok OK Ok YOU ARE RIGHT FIGHTING ISN'T IMPORTANT IN HOCKEY AND MOST TEAMS ARE WRONG AND YOU ARE RIGHT? ask Jean Beliveau if fighting is important he said John Ferguson was a major part in why the Habs won so many cups teams were scared of him. plain and simple.

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08-05-2010, 10:32 AM
  #78
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Lets have a whole team of guys like Pierre Turgeon and Brisebois and see how we do.

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08-05-2010, 10:32 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by habsroom View Post
I agree Chill and really I can't believe how some people here could disagree with us. I am sure they never watch the games or have never played the game.I think some people must like to disagree because they are bored.
To be honest the reason people are disagreeing is because you are wrong.

And the only way you guys try to prove your point is "oh I played hockey I would know". Well I played guitar, I guess that means I'm a guitar expert. Truth is neither of you even made it to the AHL so you know nothing so get off your high horses.

Teams can win without a goon and quite frankly all people are saying is that we need to add size/physicality to our team without adding a goon, they aren't saying we need to be small soft and never play physical.

If you guys can't admit that then fine, I'll wait for somebody to bring up a list of the teams that won the cup over the last 25 years and you'll see several won it without a goon or at minimum without the help from the goon they had.

If you don't want to believe that because you played hockey past 12 then /golfclap.

Still doesn't mean you know jack **** so stop trying to act like you do just because you "played the game past 12" and "watch the game". Truthfully that means sweet **** all and the mere fact that you actually think it does says a lot about how naive you both are in thinking it does. It makes me think you must not even be adults yet, to actually think you're even close to proving anyone here wrong by saying that. What are you 12? Because it's a 12 year old's mentality that you have.

Playing hockey as a kid versus pro hockey are two different things and you may think that having played hockey or even still playing in your beer league puts you at the same knowledge level as a professional athlete, but it really doesn't put you much closer to that athletes knowledge then near most any other fan who closely follows the sport. Yeah you played the sport but that ultimately is so far from their level that it's meaningless.

I know you probably aspire to be the most knowledgeable hockey people you can be, and I'm not saying a goon would be detrimental to our teams success all though it could be. But to flat out say you need a goon to win is just ludicrous. Where you guys are flat out saying it's necessary and it helps a team so much, others aren't saying that it wouldn't work, they're just saying either way could work and that they themselves would rather a team that has players who actually know how to play who are physical. To be quite frank I think it's highly overrated and the fact of 90% of the leagues teams having one (even if it's true) doesn't prove **** because half those teams don't even make the playoffs. You need a lot more things before you need a goon in other words.

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08-05-2010, 10:35 AM
  #80
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Guys, Crosby, Staal, Malkin, Gonchar, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Lidstrom, Rafalski, Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook don't win you cups.

Cooke, Burish, Eager and Adams win you cups.

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08-05-2010, 10:35 AM
  #81
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You are missing the point! no one here says the key to winning the cup is decided on who has the best tough guy. I bet you we would have had a better chance to win the cup if Markov was playing last year. As you know he wasn't playing because Matt Cooke took a run at him and put him out for 6 months. Cooke did that knowing not 1 HAB player would or could do anything to him. He would not have done that if we had a guy like DJ King who next shift would have beat the **** out of him.
You talk about wasting money on a goon,what did the HABS do when getting Darche a 1 way contract?
What did the habs do when they signed BGL?

Nuff said. It works both ways.

I mean here's your logic in reverse.

"The habs need a top 6 forward. You say it's a waste of money, but what did the habs do when they signed Roman Hamrlik to a 5year 5.5 million dollar contract?"

I mean really you can't be serious. I can look on any given team that needs an asset and say "oh but they did this or that".

Maybe nobody was available, maybe none of the tough guys they were after wanted to come here? Are you Gainey/Gauthier? Are you possibly in the room when they make these decisions?

Neither of us are, so neither should act like we know the business when there's probably a perfectly acceptable reason for this. Truthfully I could take any team in the NHL if you want, address one of their needs and say "pewpew why did they sign this guy".

If we don't know the reasons behind it, it would be stupid to make assumptions in either direction.

Maybe one of the young AHL fighters is NHL ready, after all they're just fighters anyways, who knows. They're already paying 500k to a fighter, his name is BGL, he was one of the best fighters in the league and look how that turned out.

Hindsight is 20/20.

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08-05-2010, 10:35 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by habsroom View Post
You are missing the point! no one here says the key to winning the cup is decided on who has the best tough guy. I bet you we would have had a better chance to win the cup if Markov was playing last year. As you know he wasn't playing because Matt Cooke took a run at him and put him out for 6 months. Cooke did that knowing not 1 HAB player would or could do anything to him. He would not have done that if we had a guy like DJ King who next shift would have beat the **** out of him.
You talk about wasting money on a goon,what did the HABS do when getting Darche a 1 way contract?
Cooke would be hesitant to deliver clean checks if we had a goon?

He certainly didn't hesitate in his attempt to decapitate Marc Savard who plays for one of the "toughest" teams in the league.

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08-05-2010, 10:37 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
To be honest the reason people are disagreeing is because you are wrong.

And the only way you guys try to prove your point is "oh I played hockey I would know". Well I played guitar, I guess that means I'm a guitar expert. Truth is neither of you even made it to the AHL so you know nothing so get off your high horses.

Teams can win without a goon and quite frankly all people are saying is that we need to add size/physicality to our team without adding a goon, they aren't saying we need to be small soft and never play physical.

If you guys can't admit that then fine, I'll wait for somebody to bring up a list of the teams that won the cup over the last 25 years and you'll see several won it without a goon or at minimum without the help from the goon they had.

If you don't want to believe that because you played hockey past 12 then /golfclap.

Still doesn't mean you know jack **** so stop trying to act like you do just because you "played the game past 12" and "watch the game". Truthfully that means sweet **** all and the mere fact that you actually think it does says a lot about how naive you both are in thinking it does. It makes me think you must not even be adults yet, to actually think you're even close to proving anyone here wrong by saying that. What are you 12? Because it's a 12 year old's mentality that you have.

Playing hockey as a kid versus pro hockey are two different things and you may think that having played hockey or even still playing in your beer league puts you at the same knowledge level as a professional athlete, but it really doesn't put you much closer to that athletes knowledge then near most any other fan who closely follows the sport. Yeah you played the sport but that ultimately is so far from their level that it's meaningless.

I know you probably aspire to be the most knowledgeable hockey people you can be, and I'm not saying a goon would be detrimental to our teams success all though it could be. But to flat out say you need a goon to win is just ludicrous. Where you guys are flat out saying it's necessary and it helps a team so much, others aren't saying that it wouldn't work, they're just saying either way could work and that they themselves would rather a team that has players who actually know how to play who are physical. To be quite frank I think it's highly overrated and the fact of 90% of the leagues teams having one (even if it's true) doesn't prove **** because half those teams don't even make the playoffs. You need a lot more things before you need a goon in other words.
You really must be a smart guy or do you just want me to think that lol. You go play your guitar and leave the hockey talk to guys that know hockey. By the way how do you know where I played hockey smart guy? I played pro hockey for 7 years until I took a job outside of hockey. I have fought guys that are playing in the NHL right now.

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08-05-2010, 10:40 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Frogurt View Post
Cooke would be hesitant to deliver clean checks if we had a goon?

He certainly didn't hesitate in his attempt to decapitate Marc Savard who plays for one of the "toughest" teams in the league.
You are right but he got beat up for it didn't he? and you never seen him do another thing against boston.

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08-05-2010, 10:41 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Frogurt View Post
Cooke would be hesitant to deliver clean checks if we had a goon?

He certainly didn't hesitate in his attempt to decapitate Marc Savard who plays for one of the "toughest" teams in the league.
Yeah he would be hesitant to play his game because of a goon who refuses to fight most people or mostly does staged fights. Yeah OK.

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08-05-2010, 10:41 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by habsroom View Post
You are right but he got beat up for it didn't he? and you never seen him do another thing against boston.
Did him getting beat up magically make Savard able to play again? Because if it did, then /thread.

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08-05-2010, 10:56 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by habsroom View Post
You are right but he got beat up for it didn't he? and you never seen him do another thing against boston.
They only played against each other once after that, not much time to do anything.

That's besides the point, though. Matt Cooke never did anything against Boston before March 7th either, and had he never delivered that headshot people who defend the role of goons in the NHL would have used it as proof that teams like the Bruins don't get cheapshotted. But it did happen, and Cooke got into a little scuffle with Thornton, and Pittsburgh won both those games. Cooke and the Pens suffered very little consequences from the incident, and if Cooke never injures another Bruin again the same people as before will be saying that goons as a deterrent work, until another cheapshot happens and the merry-go-round continues.

There's nothing that deters cheapshots. The best thing to do is to give it harder than you get it. This involves adding toughness throughout your lineup (which is something the Habs need to do) without sacrificing talent. There's no room for dead weight in the NHL anymore. Having great depth on your 3rd and 4th line is almost as important as your top end talent, as evidenced by these past finals, and a one dimensional goon won't be skating when it matters the most.

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08-05-2010, 10:58 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Did him getting beat up magically make Savard able to play again? Because if it did, then /thread.
Neofury you need to have a history lesson in HABS hockey.The Habs always had a goon when they were good. I am not going to name them but maybe you can set athe guitar down and look it up for yourself.

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08-05-2010, 11:11 AM
  #89
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With so few goons, the habs have no chance in this upcoming 1973-1974 hockey season.

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08-05-2010, 11:14 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
To be honest the reason people are disagreeing is because you are wrong.

And the only way you guys try to prove your point is "oh I played hockey I would know". Well I played guitar, I guess that means I'm a guitar expert. Truth is neither of you even made it to the AHL so you know nothing so get off your high horses.

Teams can win without a goon and quite frankly all people are saying is that we need to add size/physicality to our team without adding a goon, they aren't saying we need to be small soft and never play physical.

If you guys can't admit that then fine, I'll wait for somebody to bring up a list of the teams that won the cup over the last 25 years and you'll see several won it without a goon or at minimum without the help from the goon they had.

If you don't want to believe that because you played hockey past 12 then /golfclap.

Still doesn't mean you know jack **** so stop trying to act like you do just because you "played the game past 12" and "watch the game". Truthfully that means sweet **** all and the mere fact that you actually think it does says a lot about how naive you both are in thinking it does. It makes me think you must not even be adults yet, to actually think you're even close to proving anyone here wrong by saying that. What are you 12? Because it's a 12 year old's mentality that you have.

Playing hockey as a kid versus pro hockey are two different things and you may think that having played hockey or even still playing in your beer league puts you at the same knowledge level as a professional athlete, but it really doesn't put you much closer to that athletes knowledge then near most any other fan who closely follows the sport. Yeah you played the sport but that ultimately is so far from their level that it's meaningless.

I know you probably aspire to be the most knowledgeable hockey people you can be, and I'm not saying a goon would be detrimental to our teams success all though it could be. But to flat out say you need a goon to win is just ludicrous. Where you guys are flat out saying it's necessary and it helps a team so much, others aren't saying that it wouldn't work, they're just saying either way could work and that they themselves would rather a team that has players who actually know how to play who are physical. To be quite frank I think it's highly overrated and the fact of 90% of the leagues teams having one (even if it's true) doesn't prove **** because half those teams don't even make the playoffs. You need a lot more things before you need a goon in other words.
please don't lump me in, in your fight. i never played the 'i played hockey' line...though i did actually play high level hockey.
i was also explicitly clear that i wanted tough guys who can play but still preferred a tough guy (NOT BGL) to a plumber who gets 3 mins a night. of these stanley cup teams you speak of...aside from detroit (who actually had tough guys who could play - Mccarty etc) every one had tough guys and tough players in their top 9. every one.

they are needed during a long season - whether it's a clowe type or even more of a deterrent like a shelley -- who will ultimately play the same number of games and mins of guys like darche etc...

as per the argument that they don't play in the playoffs? well actually the ones who skate, do. not the boogards or BGL's...but the carcillo's, laperriere's, eager, thornton etc...so yes they do play...and you know what? i will take the opinions and player personnel decisions of the majority of NHL GM's over anonymous hockey fan site posters.

ps i also play guitar lol


Last edited by Hugo Sham: 08-05-2010 at 11:29 AM.
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08-05-2010, 11:30 AM
  #91
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Ok OK Ok YOU ARE RIGHT FIGHTING ISN'T IMPORTANT IN HOCKEY AND MOST TEAMS ARE WRONG AND YOU ARE RIGHT? ask Jean Beliveau if fighting is important he said John Ferguson was a major part in why the Habs won so many cups teams were scared of him. plain and simple.
i may be wrong.

cant really compare 2010 with the 70's. not same mentality.
im sure in the 70's no one talked about banning fightings.

there is the instigator rule, if a guy like zonopka rushes on gionta,
expect a 2 min PP if not 5 min.

im wrong by saying there werent any fights in the last playoffs.
actually 2 in the 1/4 finals.

Rivet vs Lucic
Obrien vs Simmonds

those players have skills

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08-05-2010, 11:56 AM
  #92
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The Habs were 3-3 against the Leafs last season. Why would such a highly skilled far superior team have a 500 record against a team of no-talent thugs? Also, I guess everyone conveniently has has forgotten about the back to back sweep against the Flyers in February where the Flyesr physically dominated and intimidated the Habs on the Friday night. On Saturday night, OB tried to step up against Laperriere and got flattened with one punch delating the Habs and losing yet again.

Habs are in desparate need of toughness. Oh and the Sens signed Francis Lessard yesterday. They don't even need any toughness but are seeing what the other teams are doing in the East and acting accordingly.
I agree with you, habs24, I brought the issue of Mathieu Darche being a bad signing at the time, I was confronted for hating Darche. Nothing against Darche, it is a feel good story, but it's time to move forward and show a commiiment to winning, not signing guys because they work hard, he's 35, of course he's gonna work hard, but what does he bring to the table?? Not much, would rather have a tough player in his place, and I'm sure most players on the team would as well. Your reference to the Philly series in Feb is dead on, as a person who played the game, it was embarrssing, especially the way Martin reacted by doing nothing. As long as Martin is the man, Canadiens fans better get used to this boring style, being intimidated by other teams, and just think, they let the most promising up and coming coach in Guy Boucher leave.

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08-05-2010, 12:01 PM
  #93
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The Habs were 3-3 against the Leafs last season. Why would such a highly skilled far superior team have a 500 record against a team of no-talent thugs? Also, I guess everyone conveniently has has forgotten about the back to back sweep against the Flyers in February where the Flyesr physically dominated and intimidated the Habs on the Friday night. On Saturday night, OB tried to step up against Laperriere and got flattened with one punch delating the Habs and losing yet again.
Did you also mention that we had no Markov, Spacek Andrei Kostitsyn and Pouliot for those games.

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08-05-2010, 12:03 PM
  #94
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i may be wrong.

cant really compare 2010 with the 70's. not same mentality.
im sure in the 70's no one talked about banning fightings.

there is the instigator rule, if a guy like zonopka rushes on gionta,
expect a 2 min PP if not 5 min.

im wrong by saying there werent any fights in the last playoffs.
actually 2 in the 1/4 finals.

Rivet vs Lucic
Obrien vs Simmonds

those players have skills
Scott Gomez vs Tom "****in' Nerd" Poti.

You can still push people around and when you get pushed around, you get mad, so you'll drop your gloves and then proceed to get pounded.

You don't just need big tough guys for fighting, you need them in the playoffs to throw big hits, give energy to your team and fans and to make the other team think and get nervous.

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08-05-2010, 12:04 PM
  #95
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Did you also mention that we had no Markov, Spacek Andrei Kostitsyn and Pouliot for those games.
You can mention Markov but the rest... Please.

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08-05-2010, 12:07 PM
  #96
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You can mention Markov but the rest... Please.
Top 6 forwards and top 4 defenseman don't count ? Kay.

Well, Spacek doesn't really, since he only shows up against Ovechkin.

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08-05-2010, 12:14 PM
  #97
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Top 6 forwards and top 4 defenseman don't count ? Kay.

Well, Spacek doesn't really, since he only shows up against Ovechkin.
What you are talking about? Kostitsyn was in playoffs and so was Spacek. If you think they would make a big difference during games against the Flyers in regular season. Fine. Moot point, really.

Throughout regular season both did not look like top 6 forward or top 4 d-men. So who cares? I do not even remember if Pouliot played in playoffs, thats how good he looked. Thats why I nixed all 3. Markov on the other hand is a tough loss.

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08-05-2010, 12:17 PM
  #98
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Scott Gomez vs Tom "****in' Nerd" Poti.

You can still push people around and when you get pushed around, you get mad, so you'll drop your gloves and then proceed to get pounded.

You don't just need big tough guys for fighting, you need them in the playoffs to throw big hits, give energy to your team and fans and to make the other team think and get nervous.
this kind of player yes.
what is the solution for this. there is not alot of guys in there who have this profile.

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08-05-2010, 12:24 PM
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What you are talking about? Kostitsyn was in playoffs and so was Spacek. If you think they would make a big difference during games against the Flyers in regular season. Fine. Moot point, really.

Throughout regular season both did not look like top 6 forward or top 4 d-men. So who cares? I do not even remember if Pouliot played in playoffs, thats how good he looked. Thats why I nixed all 3. Markov on the other hand is a tough loss.
For regular season, they count. Montréal is in no shape, or form built to beat Philadelphia in the playoffs. A team game series, Montréal could win, especially in the season. Playoffs, HAH. Fat chance.

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08-05-2010, 12:24 PM
  #100
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Nice to see the Oilers resign Steve Mac to look out for Hall and the rest of the kids in Edmonton.Not so nice to see the Habs do zip to protect Subban and Eller.Every man for himself lads,duck and cover.
I swear to god if I have to watch Chris Neal laugh at our entire team another year im going to puke.
Would not want to be in O'B or Moens skates this year.
If you think intimidation doesnt play a part anymore in the NHL your wrong.Lapierre vs.O'B during the back to back vs. Philly.The entire Flyer bench was laughing it up after the 'fight".Habs bench was pretending they were allready in the showers.Pathetic.

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