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Simmonds for Neal

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Old
08-06-2010, 08:37 AM
  #1
ruski17
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Simmonds for Neal

This is a VALUE thread, not an actual trade proposal. Value-wise, how would this improbable trade look like. Wayne Simmonds for James Neal. Would it be straight up, would LA adds more players/picks, would Dalllas adds more players/picks? The reason I'm doing this is because both players are highly sought after on this forum and are both young, physical forwards with some good offensive upside. Again, this is not a trade proposal and even if it were, it wouldn't be a trade we'd see anytime soon.

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08-06-2010, 08:45 AM
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LA would have to add significantly.

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08-06-2010, 08:46 AM
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Tony Clifton Leaf
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Right now, Simmonds has more value, but only because he's still got a year left on his ELC (at least I think.). Neal will be getting a sizable raise, so that lowers his value (especially to a team like dallas with an internal cap.).

Lets say neal gets a 3m dollar raise. You have to factor that in with simmonds, as well. So the question is really Neal vs. Simmonds + 3m $/yr player. And the answer to that is Simmonds + 3m $.

Neal is without a doubt the better player though.


Last edited by Tony Clifton Leaf: 08-06-2010 at 08:54 AM.
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Old
08-06-2010, 08:48 AM
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Tuggy
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Neal >>> Simmonds.

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08-06-2010, 08:53 AM
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ReggieDunlop7
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While both are still young, I think Simmonds caps out at a good second line player whereas I believe Neal has top 3 potential. LA would have to add IMO

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08-06-2010, 08:56 AM
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SFKingshomer
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LA would probably have to add a little unless DAL can't come to terms with Neal. DL wouldn't want Neal if that were the case, however. It's closer than most on here realize...

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08-06-2010, 08:57 AM
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JesusNPucks
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Right now, I perceive a relatively significant difference between the two...

Simmonds
2008-09 LA 82 9 14 23 -8
2009-10 LA 78 16 24 40 22

Neal
2008-09 DAL 77 24 13 37 -11
2009-10 DAL 78 27 28 55 -5

Simmonds is a good player, and I would argue that he has a great future, especially because of his defensive awareness. However, from an offensive standpoint, he has cracked the teens in goals only once, while Neal is approaching has had two 20-goal seasons already and is on the cusp of a 30-goal season soon.

I agree with Tuggy:
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Neal >>> Simmonds.

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08-06-2010, 08:59 AM
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JesusNPucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReggieDunlop7 View Post
While both are still young, I think Simmonds caps out at a good second line player whereas I believe Neal has top 3 potential. LA would have to add IMO
Neal is already a top-three player...

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Old
08-06-2010, 09:06 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MapleLeaf View Post
Right now, Simmonds has more value, but only because he's still got a year left on his ELC (at least I think.). Neal will be getting a sizable raise, so that lowers his value (especially to a team like dallas with an internal cap.).

Lets say neal gets a 3m dollar raise. You have to factor that in with simmonds, as well. So the question is really Neal vs. Simmonds + 3m $/yr player. And the answer to that is Simmonds + 3m $.

Neal is without a doubt the better player though.
That's how you determine value. Not by their contract, which is a direct result of their value.

So your opening sentence is very wrong. James Neal has more value without a doubt.

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08-06-2010, 09:08 AM
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SFKingshomer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusNPucks View Post
Neal is already a top-three player...
He is? He had a hot 20 game stretch last season but didn't do much after that. Neal played a lot on the PP didn't he not? Who were his linemates most of the season?

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08-06-2010, 09:10 AM
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He is? He had a hot 20 game stretch last season but didn't do much after that. Neal played a lot on the PP didn't he not? Who were his linemates most of the season?
By any chance, were you one of the people bashing Mikko Koivu's new contract, saying it doesn't matter what linemates he had, he'd max out at about 20-50-70 a season?

I'm just curious cause if you were I would die laughing.

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08-06-2010, 09:12 AM
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SFKingshomer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatsFan48 View Post
By any chance, were you one of the people bashing Mikko Koivu's new contract, saying it doesn't matter what linemates he had, he'd max out at about 20-50-70 a season?

I'm just curious cause if you were I would die laughing.
No, Koivu is one of the most underrated players in the game.

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08-06-2010, 09:14 AM
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No, Koivu is one of the most underrated players in the game.
Alright good. That being said, who does Simmonds play with?

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08-06-2010, 09:17 AM
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Tony Clifton Leaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatsFan48 View Post
That's how you determine value. Not by their contract, which is a direct result of their value.

So your opening sentence is very wrong. James Neal has more value without a doubt.
Players contracts do affect there value. Just ask Wade Redden.

I'm not saying Neal isn't deserving of a 3 m $ raise, he is; I'm just saying with Simmonds, you can get him AND another solid player for the same cost.

In today's cap world, ELC's are VERY valuable for any team, but Dallas fans should understand my points even more, due to their internal cap.

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08-06-2010, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusNPucks View Post
Right now, I perceive a relatively significant difference between the two...

Simmonds
2008-09 LA 82 9 14 23 -8
2009-10 LA 78 16 24 40 22

Neal
2008-09 DAL 77 24 13 37 -11
2009-10 DAL 78 27 28 55 -5

Simmonds is a good player, and I would argue that he has a great future, especially because of his defensive awareness. However, from an offensive standpoint, he has cracked the teens in goals only once, while Neal is approaching has had two 20-goal seasons already and is on the cusp of a 30-goal season soon.

I agree with Tuggy:
You have to take in consideration that Neal is two years older than Simmonds. But, I agree, I'd take Neal over Simmonds... And I really like Wayne.

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08-06-2010, 09:18 AM
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SFKingshomer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatsFan48 View Post
Alright good. That being said, who does Simmonds play with?
He spent most of the season with Handzus and a rotating LW of Frolov, Richardson, or Parse. He never played on the PP...

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08-06-2010, 09:28 AM
  #17
Vujtek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goforit View Post
You have to take in consideration that Neal is two years older than Simmonds.
No he isn't. Neal (born in Sept. 1987) is only less than year older than Simmonds (born in Aug. 1988).

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Old
08-06-2010, 09:31 AM
  #18
BigBrown
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Some of it has to depend on what contract Neal gets, right? Comparing on-ice performance, I gotta think Neal has the edge there.

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Old
08-06-2010, 09:32 AM
  #19
ruski17
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What would LA have to add to make the value equal?

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08-06-2010, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vujtek View Post
No he isn't. Neal (born in Sept. 1987) is only less than year older than Simmonds (born in Aug. 1988).

Ok lol... sorry... I meant «hockey years». Is that better?

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08-06-2010, 09:38 AM
  #21
Vujtek
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Ok lol... sorry... I meant «hockey years». Is that better?
Not really as Neal only has 1 year in AHL more than Simmonds has hockey years.

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Old
08-06-2010, 09:43 AM
  #22
Zim
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Originally Posted by ruski17 View Post
What would LA have to add to make the value equal?
I would think something like Simmonds and Teubert for Neal and a pick would be reasonable?

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Old
08-06-2010, 09:43 AM
  #23
otto bond
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Neal is in a class of his own compared to Simmonds. LA needs to add big time. Sorry LA Fans, over value Simmonds here a bit to much.

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Old
08-06-2010, 11:00 AM
  #24
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Definitely take Neal over Simmonds. Simmonds, as of now, is Chuck Kobasew with a cool nickname. He definitely has room to grow, but Neal's got as much if not more.

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Old
08-06-2010, 11:17 AM
  #25
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LA would need to add. Why? Because they are similar players, but Neal has more proven offensive ability. Its like saying what would Columbus have to add to Rick Nash to get Ovechkin...similar style, just one is a step above the other.

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