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Are we a better team then last year on paper?

View Poll Results: Are we better on paper then last year?
Yes. We've improved. 80 47.62%
No. We've regressed. 36 21.43%
I'd say we're on par with last year. 52 30.95%
Voters: 168. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-07-2010, 02:31 PM
  #76
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Let me put it this way, if we've regressed or improved won't be based on Zherdev/Leino/Meszaros vs. Gagne/Asham/Parent. Instead it will be based on Richards, Giroux, Carter, Hartnell, Briere, and Coburn.

Those six players all have to have better seasons in 2010-11. They need to play at the same level they played at down the stretch and into the postseason. I know we probably can't expect Briere to be a PPG player, but you have to expect Richards and Carter to be up there. Hartnell just flat out needs to play better. Giroux needs to have some semblance of an offensive season. And Coburn needs to prove he's turned the corner back into a #2 defenseman.

If those pieces fall, the rest of the dominos will fall into place. We will be easily one of the best teams in the NHL by the time the final standings are released, and it's our core that needs to accomplish that. Anything else that pops up from Carle, Meszaros, Zherdev, Leino, or vanRiemsdyk is just gravy.

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08-07-2010, 03:40 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Let me put it this way, if we've regressed or improved won't be based on Zherdev/Leino/Meszaros vs. Gagne/Asham/Parent. Instead it will be based on Richards, Giroux, Carter, Hartnell, Briere, and Coburn.

Those six players all have to have better seasons in 2010-11. They need to play at the same level they played at down the stretch and into the postseason. I know we probably can't expect Briere to be a PPG player, but you have to expect Richards and Carter to be up there. Hartnell just flat out needs to play better. Giroux needs to have some semblance of an offensive season. And Coburn needs to prove he's turned the corner back into a #2 defenseman.

If those pieces fall, the rest of the dominos will fall into place. We will be easily one of the best teams in the NHL by the time the final standings are released, and it's our core that needs to accomplish that. Anything else that pops up from Carle, Meszaros, Zherdev, Leino, or vanRiemsdyk is just gravy.
So assume for arguments sake they all play better and more consistent. If they are losing games 5-4, 6-5 because of shoddy goaltending will it really matter how much they improved? Those guys could all have career years, play good defensively yet with bad goaltending it wont mean squat. The play of leighton will determine this teams fate.

Coburn has never been a #2 dman except for a few months here and there. JVR needs to tke the next step as well. They cant afford to have him regress. I dotn expect Leino to do what he did in the playoffs but they need him to contribute. Dotn agree agree at all that anythign they get from those guys is gravy, that is way offbase.

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08-07-2010, 03:43 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Let me put it this way, if we've regressed or improved won't be based on Zherdev/Leino/Meszaros vs. Gagne/Asham/Parent. Instead it will be based on Richards, Giroux, Carter, Hartnell, Briere, and Coburn.

Those six players all have to have better seasons in 2010-11. They need to play at the same level they played at down the stretch and into the postseason. I know we probably can't expect Briere to be a PPG player, but you have to expect Richards and Carter to be up there. Hartnell just flat out needs to play better. Giroux needs to have some semblance of an offensive season. And Coburn needs to prove he's turned the corner back into a #2 defenseman.

If those pieces fall, the rest of the dominos will fall into place. We will be easily one of the best teams in the NHL by the time the final standings are released, and it's our core that needs to accomplish that. Anything else that pops up from Carle, Meszaros, Zherdev, Leino, or vanRiemsdyk is just gravy.
It's going to be pretty difficult for Coburn to prove he's turned the corner back into a #2 defenseman (although I would argue he never really reached this level in the first place) when he's spending the majority of his ice time on the third pairing.

I'm expecting the defensive pairings to look like this:

Pronger-Carle
Timonen-Meszaros
Coburn-O'Donnell
Bartulis

Exiled to the Phantoms (God willing): Matt Walker

Again, I expect our offense and defense to be fine. I fear it will be our goaltending, however, that keeps us from being "easily" one of the best teams in the NHL.

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08-07-2010, 03:52 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
It's going to be pretty difficult for Coburn to prove he's turned the corner back into a #2 defenseman (although I would argue he never really reached this level in the first place) when he's spending the majority of his ice time on the third pairing.

I'm expecting the defensive pairings to look like this:

Pronger-Carle
Timonen-Meszaros
Coburn-O'Donnell
Bartulis

Exiled to the Phantoms (God willing): Matt Walker

Again, I expect our offense and defense to be fine. I fear it will be our goaltending, however, that keeps us from being "easily" one of the best teams in the NHL.
I'm expecting it to start:

Pronger - Carle
Timonen - Coburn
Meszaros - O'Donnell

By midseason, I expect it to be:

Pronger - Meszaros
Timonen - Coburn
Carle - O'Donnell

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08-07-2010, 04:05 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I'm expecting it to start:

Pronger - Carle
Timonen - Coburn
Meszaros - O'Donnell

By midseason, I expect it to be:

Pronger - Meszaros
Timonen - Coburn
Carle - O'Donnell
Unless Carle plays his way out, he will stya put. The coach seems to have a hard on for him. I can easily see coburn on the 3rd pair. I highly doubt Carle ends up on the 3rd pair.

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08-07-2010, 04:09 PM
  #81
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One thing being missed is I would expect Richards/Carter/Giroux/JVR (10-11) > Richards/Carter/Giroux/JVR (09-10).

I think we are a significantly improved team, and if the goaltending is even average, we should be the co-favorites with PIT and WSH to win the Prince of Wales trophy and take another shot at the Cup.

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08-07-2010, 04:15 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
Unless Carle plays his way out, he will stya put. The coach seems to have a hard on for him. I can easily see coburn on the 3rd pair. I highly doubt Carle ends up on the 3rd pair.
Taking Coburn's size of the Timonen pairing is a recipe for disaster. That's all I'm going to say.

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08-07-2010, 04:17 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
One thing being missed is I would expect Richards/Carter/Giroux/JVR (10-11) > Richards/Carter/Giroux/JVR (09-10).

I think we are a significantly improved team, and if the goaltending is even average, we should be the co-favorites with PIT and WSH to win the Prince of Wales trophy and take another shot at the Cup.
One thing everyone else forgets is that all those other young studs in our own division, let alone the conference, are all a year older as well.

That said, unless NJ gets Kovalchuk, the division title seems to be a two-horse race this season.

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08-07-2010, 04:19 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Taking Coburn's size of the Timonen pairing is a recipe for disaster. That's all I'm going to say.
replacing coburn with Mezaros doesnt really lose much size.

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08-07-2010, 04:32 PM
  #85
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I think the team will be fine, because they have a pretty good goaltending prospect in Bobrovsky, that could save the season when Boucher and Leighton fall apart in the first two months IMO.
The defense is better on paper, Pronger, Timonen, Coburn, Carle, Meszaros, O'Donnell, and Walker is better then Pronger, Timonen, Coburn, Carle, Parent, Syvret, Bart, and OKT.
The only question mark for me is the offense, if Richards, Carter, and Hartnell return to their regular form (PPG, PPG, 25/25) the team should be fine.

Does any one else think Richards could hit 100 points this season?

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08-07-2010, 05:13 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
We took a butter knife (Leighton) to a gun fight against three of the biggest guns in the play-offs (Brodeur, Rask, Halak), and actually won. Then when we finally ran into a guy that wasn't too blind to shoot, he killed us with a letter opener (Niemi).

That bolsters my faith in divine intervention. Apparently it bolsters other peoples' faith in the lethality of butter knives.
Well done.

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Old
08-07-2010, 05:35 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by DMadd View Post
I think the team will be fine, because they have a pretty good goaltending prospect in Bobrovsky, that could save the season when Boucher and Leighton fall apart in the first two months IMO.
The defense is better on paper, Pronger, Timonen, Coburn, Carle, Meszaros, O'Donnell, and Walker is better then Pronger, Timonen, Coburn, Carle, Parent, Syvret, Bart, and OKT.
The only question mark for me is the offense, if Richards, Carter, and Hartnell return to their regular form (PPG, PPG, 25/25) the team should be fine.

Does any one else think Richards could hit 100 points this season?
You don't do that at all he needs to be developed you look for a trade before you throw Bobrovsky into the fire. You can kill his career in one season.

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08-07-2010, 05:46 PM
  #88
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What would happen if some youngster manages to play his way on to the team in the pre season, someone would have to we waived, probably whomever is lowest on the depth chart?

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08-07-2010, 05:59 PM
  #89
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Allow me to reiterate: Michael F. Leighton was made our starter ON PURPOSE.

That should just about tell anyone everything they need to know. In a nutshell, it's a tasty little microcosm of the entire ****ing blown to **** offseason.

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08-07-2010, 07:14 PM
  #90
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I love that the poll thinks we r improved but shafer is getting killed be 5-10 regulars for staring that fact! Same ones in every thread with the same take. Leighton sucks, Shelley sucks, gagne was god, meszaros is bad...

Shafer got it right, on paper this team looks better. Forget u hate homer for a minute andlook at the teams, it looks better to me. Not much but better. How bout the hawks? Better or worse? Hmmm

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08-07-2010, 07:25 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
I love that the poll thinks we r improved but shafer is getting killed be 5-10 regulars for staring that fact! Same ones in every thread with the same take. Leighton sucks, Shelley sucks, gagne was god, meszaros is bad...

Shafer got it right, on paper this team looks better. Forget u hate homer for a minute andlook at the teams, it looks better to me. Not much but better. How bout the hawks? Better or worse? Hmmm
What? No, it doesn't. Currently, there's 41 people who think we've improved and 47 people that think we're either on par or worse then last year. That's not improved.

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08-07-2010, 07:35 PM
  #92
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So assume for arguments sake they all play better and more consistent. If they are losing games 5-4, 6-5 because of shoddy goaltending will it really matter how much they improved? Those guys could all have career years, play good defensively yet with bad goaltending it wont mean squat. The play of leighton will determine this teams fate.

Coburn has never been a #2 dman except for a few months here and there. JVR needs to tke the next step as well. They cant afford to have him regress. I dotn expect Leino to do what he did in the playoffs but they need him to contribute. Dotn agree agree at all that anythign they get from those guys is gravy, that is way offbase.
And if Leighton plays as well as he did all season and through most of the playoffs, we should be challenging for the conference title. The D is better, the O will be the same or better if even half of or top 9 play better than they did last year. Then add Zherdev and Leino, a stronger JVR, Giroux ready to step up and a healthy Carcillo. I think we could have a very potent offensive team in front of a refreshed D that will be more able to jump into the play.

How Leighton plays against Pitt and Wash will be the key. If he falters, he will need replacing. If he doesn't, it could be a fun year.

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08-07-2010, 07:52 PM
  #93
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I'm trying to be optimistic a bit here but I'm starting to sort of believe what I'm about to say.
If the hawks can win a cup with bad goaltending why can't we? And if you think that Niemi is THAT much better than Leighton then I'm gonna say our defense is THAT much better.

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08-07-2010, 08:21 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timonen View Post
I'm trying to be optimistic a bit here but I'm starting to sort of believe what I'm about to say.
If the hawks can win a cup with bad goaltending why can't we? And if you think that Niemi is THAT much better than Leighton then I'm gonna say our defense is THAT much better.
Dustin Byfuglien - Jonathan Toews - Patrick Kane
Troy Brouwer - Patrick Sharp - Marian Hossa
Andrew Ladd - Dave Bolland - Kris Versteeg
Ben Eager - John Madden - Tomas Kopecky
Adam Burish

Duncan Keith - Brent Seabrook
Brian Campbell - Niklas Hjalmarsson
Jordan Hendry - Brent Sopel

Antti Niemi
Cristobal Huet

vs.

Simon Gagne - Mike Richards - Jeff Carter
Scott Hartnell - Danny Briere - Ville Leino
James vanRiemsdyk - Claude Giroux - Arron Asham
Darroll Powe - Blair Betts - Ian Laperriere
Dan Carcillo

Chris Pronger - Matt Carle
Kimmo Timonen - Braydon Coburn
Ryan Parent - Lukas Krajicek
Oskars Bartulis

Michael Leighton
Brian Boucher

Now it is:

Troy Brouwer - Jonathan Toews - Patrick Kane
Victor Stalberg - Patrick Sharp - Marian Hossa
Tomas Kopecky - Dave Bolland - Jack Skille
Bryan Bickell - Jake Dowell - Igor Makarov
Robert Klinkhammer

Duncan Keith - Brent Seabrook
Brian Campbell - Niklas Hjalmarsson
Jordan Hendry - Brian Connelly
John Scott

Marty Turco
Corey Crawford (Cristobal Huet)

vs.

Dan Carcillo - Mike Richards - Nikolai Zherdev
Scott Hartnell - Jeff Carter - Danny Briere
James vanRiemsdyk - Claude Giroux - Ville Leino
Darroll Powe - Blair Betts - Ian Laperriere
Jody Shelley

Chris Pronger - Matt Carle
Kimmo Timonen - Braydon Coburn
Andrej Meszaros - Sean O'Donnell
Matt Walker - Oskars Bartulis

Michael Leighton
Brian Boucher



CHI OUT: Dustin Byfuglien, Andrew Ladd, Kris Versteeg, Ben Eager, John Madden, Adam Burish, Brent Sopel, Antti Niemi, Cristobal Huet

CHI IN: Victor Stalberg, Jack Skille, Bryan Bickell, Jake Dowell, Igor Makarov, Robert Klinkhammer, Brian Connelly, John Scott, Marty Turco, Corey Crawford

PHI OUT: Simon Gagne, Arron Asham, Ryan Parent, Lukas Krajicek, (Oskars Bartulis)

PHI IN: Nikolai Zherdev, Andrej Meszaros, Jody Shelley, Sean O'Donnell, Matt Walker

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08-07-2010, 10:11 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
PHI OUT: Simon Gagne, Arron Asham, Ryan Parent, Lukas Krajicek, (Oskars Bartulis)

PHI IN: Nikolai Zherdev, Andrej Meszaros, Jody Shelley, Sean O'Donnell, Matt Walker
Goaltending aside, Homer has succeeded in adding size, skill, character and toughness to the lineup.

Three big D, a legit playing goon and a potential impact forward. If Meszaros plays as well as I think he can, it could be a dominant D corps.

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08-08-2010, 12:13 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Let me put it this way, if we've regressed or improved won't be based on Zherdev/Leino/Meszaros vs. Gagne/Asham/Parent. Instead it will be based on Richards, Giroux, Carter, Hartnell, Briere, and Coburn.

Those six players all have to have better seasons in 2010-11. They need to play at the same level they played at down the stretch and into the postseason. I know we probably can't expect Briere to be a PPG player, but you have to expect Richards and Carter to be up there. Hartnell just flat out needs to play better. Giroux needs to have some semblance of an offensive season. And Coburn needs to prove he's turned the corner back into a #2 defenseman.

If those pieces fall, the rest of the dominos will fall into place. We will be easily one of the best teams in the NHL by the time the final standings are released, and it's our core that needs to accomplish that. Anything else that pops up from Carle, Meszaros, Zherdev, Leino, or vanRiemsdyk is just gravy.
First off, I voted No in the poll.

Second, to your post Chris, I have been saying it for 3 seasons now, Briere is a PPG player, or damn close to it, if played with the right players that complement him. AND AT CENTER

Remember his production with Prospal? Project that over a full season. Leino is a skilled guy similar to Prospal who isnt the fastest guy around, but can hold onto the puck and cycle with Briere. If the Leino/Briere/Hartnell line continued their chemistry, and were kept together for a full season I bet anything Briere would be almost a point per game. If he is played at wing, play him with Giroux at center and I bet you he is damn close to a PPG.

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08-08-2010, 02:04 AM
  #97
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offense, the same. toughness better with a real heavyweight,and walker is a nasty nasty fella, defense much better, goaltending, with reese as goaltending coach, leighton will continue to improve. as per backup, i don't think its gonna be bouch, i can see one of the young guys, getting the nod for backup.

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08-08-2010, 02:04 AM
  #98
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I remember reading on Hockeybuzz that the Flyers have a deal in place to trade for a Starting Goalie if Leighton/Boucher falter during camp. Eklund reported it. Bill Meltzer chimed in a few days later and said that he also heard about the trade and said that Flyers fans probably wouldn't like it. I think they are improved but I'm worried that the Flyers are putting too much stock in Leighton when their best player Chris Pronger and also Timonen are getting older. Next year may be our best chance before our team gets picked apart by the cap. I'm also worried that the trade Meltzer was talking about would involve Claude Giroux or JVR for a one year rental.

Quote:
Thanks for responding to questions in the message board.

Question Eklund said that the Flyers have a deal in place, that if in camp the goaltending is shaky, would send us a goalie and would help both teams.
My question is why wouldn't they do it now and wouldn't the price go up if the other team seen that we were stuck. Have you heard anything about this?
- PhillyFran



I know the alleged deal Ek is talking about, and it's not one that would make the majority of Flyers fans happy.

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08-08-2010, 04:35 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
CHI OUT: Dustin Byfuglien, Andrew Ladd, Kris Versteeg, Ben Eager, John Madden, Adam Burish, Brent Sopel, Antti Niemi, Cristobal Huet

CHI IN: Victor Stalberg, Jack Skille, Bryan Bickell, Jake Dowell, Igor Makarov, Robert Klinkhammer, Brian Connelly, John Scott, Marty Turco, Corey Crawford
This is the second or third post I've seen that has Colonel Klink making the Hawks roster at least as the 13th forward. Do you think that'll actually happen? I'd love to see Rob make the team. Even though he only played 39 or so games here in P-Town, I sure enjoyed the way he played. And you gotta love that Name! KLINKHAMMER!!! It just sounds so..... METAL!!!

And even though he only played those 37-39 games for the Winterhawks, he was still the leading scorer on the team at season's end (although he was no longer on the team at season's end). Jesus that was a really tough season.

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08-08-2010, 09:03 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timonen View Post
I'm trying to be optimistic a bit here but I'm starting to sort of believe what I'm about to say.
If the hawks can win a cup with bad goaltending why can't we? And if you think that Niemi is THAT much better than Leighton then I'm gonna say our defense is THAT much better.
Because Niemi isn't as terrible of a goaltender as people are making you think. Even if Niemi is still in the bottom third, the difference was THAT great.

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