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Do you like Eric Lindros?

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Old
08-11-2010, 10:26 AM
  #76
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My favorite player ever. Love him. I dont care what anyone says, he loved us too. He bled orange and black. I really hope that he knows that alot of us recognized what he had to go through. Bobby Clarke alomst killed him for christ's sake. With a better supporting cast he would have won a cup with us.

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08-11-2010, 10:33 AM
  #77
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My favorite player ever. Love him. I dont care what anyone says, he loved us too. He bled orange and black. I really hope that he knows that alot of us recognized what he had to go through. Bobby Clarke alomst killed him for christ's sake. With a better supporting cast he would have won a cup with us.
I disagree. The only mistake Clarke made was letting Erics parents into Flyers front office. That one is on Clarke.

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08-11-2010, 10:38 AM
  #78
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Im talking about the collapsed lung incident Kaktus.

Hockey players are humans too. Maybe there wouldn't have been problems with parents, agents and team doctors if Bobby were a better people person and not so god damn determined to keep up his "tough sob" image at all times.

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08-11-2010, 10:47 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Lomark View Post
Im talking about the collapsed lung incident Kaktus.

Hockey players are humans too. Maybe there wouldn't have been problems with parents, agents and team doctors if Bobby were a better people person and not so god damn determined to keep up his "tough sob" image at all times.
Bobby Clarke had nothing to do with the collapsed lung...

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08-11-2010, 11:01 AM
  #80
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Bobby Clarke had nothing to do with the collapsed lung...
It was my understanding that Clarke had told the trainers to put Lindros on a plane back home but Keith Jones insisted that he'd be taken to a hospital and was later credited for saving Erics life.
Anyways it was widely known that Clarke wanted Eric to toughen up and I'm sure that influenced other staff members on the Flyers, had they gotten theyre wish on this occasion Eric would have died.

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08-11-2010, 11:03 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Lomark View Post
Im talking about the collapsed lung incident Kaktus.

Hockey players are humans too. Maybe there wouldn't have been problems with parents, agents and team doctors if Bobby were a better people person and not so god damn determined to keep up his "tough sob" image at all times.
Okay, but then how do you explain Bonnie and Carl's involvement with Eric's teams when he was in junior? Believe me, their butting in didn't start in Philadelphia.

While we're on the topic, can you name any other player's parents? I can't. What does that tell you?

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08-11-2010, 11:07 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Lomark View Post
It was my understanding that Clarke had told the trainers to put Lindros on a plane back home but Keith Jones insisted that he'd be taken to a hospital and was later credited for saving Erics life.
Anyways it was widely known that Clarke wanted Eric to toughen up and I'm sure that influenced other staff members on the Flyers, had they gotten theyre wish on this occasion Eric would have died.
1) Clarke wasn't there.

2) They didn't know he had internal bleeding at the time.

3) Keith Jones came back from dinner and found Lindros collapsed bathtub -- it was at this point that they knew something truly serious was going on -- and they called the ambulance.

So, "Clarke almost killed him" is buying into the Lindros drama a bit too much... not to mention Jones saving his life. Jones called up the trainers, and they called an ambulance as soon as they saw him (Jones has been interviewed about this since then).

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08-11-2010, 11:08 AM
  #83
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Okay, but then how do you explain Bonnie and Carl's involvement with Eric's teams when he was in junior? Believe me, their butting in didn't start in Philadelphia.

While we're on the topic, can you name any other player's parents? I can't. What does that tell you?
You can't... there was a clear historical track record with Lindros dating to when he was a teenager and completely independent of Philadelphia. To claim that Bobby Clarke is the source of Lindros' problems is to ignore his history.

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08-11-2010, 11:13 AM
  #84
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Okay, but then how do you explain Bonnie and Carl's involvement with Eric's teams when he was in junior? Believe me, their butting in didn't start in Philadelphia.

While we're on the topic, can you name any other player's parents? I can't. What does that tell you?
I'm not disputing that they were butting in or that they were a bad influence. But I believe another GM would have sortet things out far easier and far smoother than Bobby who never can let go of his ego.

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08-11-2010, 11:15 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Lomark View Post
I'm not disputing that they were butting in or that they were a bad influence. But I believe another GM would have sortet things out far easier and far smoother than Bobby who never can let go of his ego.
If Clarke was the egomaniac that you make him out to be, then the Flyers wouldn't have been one of the most popular destinations for players to come to throughout his tenure here.

Clarke was old school, and he didn't like an early-20s punk hijacking his franchise and having his parents/agent (note, that's a big problem) calling him up demanding that he trade players off the team because their son/client didn't get along with said players.

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08-11-2010, 11:18 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
1) Clarke wasn't there.

2) They didn't know he had internal bleeding at the time.

3) Keith Jones came back from dinner and found Lindros collapsed bathtub -- it was at this point that they knew something truly serious was going on -- and they called the ambulance.

So, "Clarke almost killed him" is buying into the Lindros drama a bit too much... not to mention Jones saving his life. Jones called up the trainers, and they called an ambulance as soon as they saw him (Jones has been interviewed about this since then).

Yeah a bit dramatical maybe. Maybe not as dramatic as those people who "hate" a player who did everything he could to help us win just becuase of his parents and silly rumours. But yeah its the dramatic version.

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08-11-2010, 11:19 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Lomark View Post
I'm not disputing that they were butting in or that they were a bad influence. But I believe another GM would have sortet things out far easier and far smoother than Bobby who never can let go of his ego.
I'm not so certain. Bonnie and Carl were over-involved in Eric's career, and I'd bet that it was from the time he played peewee hockey.

He was drafted by the Soo Greyhounds in the OHL, but refused to report. Apparently Gretzky's OHL team wasn't good enough for him. He sat out and forced the Soo to trade him to Oshawa. They were over-involved throughout his time in Oshawa (on and off ice issues), and then pulled the same ******** when he was drafted to the NHL. And once he was traded to Philadelphia.

No player is above the team or the game. Unfortunately, I think Bonnie and Carl drilled into Eric's head that he is better than the game or any team, and he believed them.

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08-11-2010, 11:24 AM
  #88
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Yeah a bit dramatical maybe. Maybe not as dramatic as those people who "hate" a player who did everything he could to help us win just becuase of his parents and silly rumours. But yeah its the dramatic version.
His drama queen status had a significantly negative effect on the team towards the end, and he came back and derailed the mojo of a team that was up 3-1 in the ECF... only to hold out and refuse to play for that team the following year.

**** him.

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08-11-2010, 11:36 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Lomark View Post
Im talking about the collapsed lung incident Kaktus.

Hockey players are humans too. Maybe there wouldn't have been problems with parents, agents and team doctors if Bobby were a better people person and not so god damn determined to keep up his "tough sob" image at all times.
If Lindros did not report that he was hurt how the hell Clarke would know?

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**** him.
This is just stupid.

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08-11-2010, 11:40 AM
  #90
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If Clarke was the egomaniac that you make him out to be, then the Flyers wouldn't have been one of the most popular destinations for players to come to throughout his tenure here.

Clarke was old school, and he didn't like an early-20s punk hijacking his franchise and having his parents/agent (note, that's a big problem) calling him up demanding that he trade players off the team because their son/client didn't get along with said players.
Are you saying that is indeed the way things played out? Fact? Or just the version you chose to tune in to?

Bobby reeks of ego. I love tough, old school players about as much as any hockey fan you'll ever find (check post history if you want) I just don't like when it carries over into self intitlement. He knows his legacy and he won't have anyone out-shine him or question him. Erics parents were a problem. A problem that was there to stay. And as the problem was there to stay the smart move is to use people skills to make your point without stepping on toes. Bobby infected every issue by always using brawns over brains.

And I still don't see how not liking his parents would have any bearing on your feelings towards Eric. He did everything he could and was one of the toughest, most talented players to ever bleed for us. The Hart speech still gets to me..

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08-11-2010, 11:42 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
This is just stupid.
Do explain.

Despite his exemplary play here, there were few redeeming qualities in the end for the Lindros tenure. Between the off-ice BS, and the front office hissy fits he threw and caused... the playoff return only to then refuse to play here again was the icing on the cake. If he knew he was done with Philly, he should have just stayed off the ice.

So, **** him.

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08-11-2010, 11:49 AM
  #92
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Are you saying that is indeed the way things played out? Fact? Or just the version you chose to tune in to?

Bobby reeks of ego. I love tough, old school players about as much as any hockey fan you'll ever find (check post history if you want) I just don't like when it carries over into self intitlement. He knows his legacy and he won't have anyone out-shine him or question him. Erics parents were a problem. A problem that was there to stay. And as the problem was there to stay the smart move is to use people skills to make your point without stepping on toes. Bobby infected every issue by always using brawns over brains.
Bobby Clarke reeks of the Flyers... and the Flyers first. Lindros was not about the Flyers first, and that became more and more apparent as time passed.

Everything I've said is pretty much dead on factual based on reports that came out at the time, or have come out since then. For example, Lindros got Podein traded (who was a fantastic role player for those teams) because Podein was infringing on his role as captain in his opinion. Apparently he had someone dealt -- I'm not sure who, it was never clear -- because he didn't pass enough to Lindros (apparently Clarke was informed of this by Carl).

So, it's possible you need to re-think this whole "Bobby infected every issue" thing... and ponder whether the Lindros clan infected every issue with THEIR sense of entitlement... given that, ya know, he was "The Next One." Something they bought into entirely.

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And I still don't see how not liking his parents would have any bearing on your feelings towards Eric. He did everything he could and was one of the toughest, most talented players to ever bleed for us. The Hart speech still gets to me..
Because his parents were all-*ing present in everything that was going on here then. They were always around... always talking to the media... always involved. Pressuring Clarke for trades and other crap. You cannot separate Lindros from his parents, they were a packaged entity. And, unfortunately for Lindros, there the reason he doesn't really have a home in the hockey world.

Lindros won the Hart when he was 21... that was before the **** hit the fan. Whole thing rang very hollow 5 years later.

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08-11-2010, 11:53 AM
  #93
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I'm not so certain. Bonnie and Carl were over-involved in Eric's career, and I'd bet that it was from the time he played peewee hockey.

He was drafted by the Soo Greyhounds in the OHL, but refused to report. Apparently Gretzky's OHL team wasn't good enough for him. He sat out and forced the Soo to trade him to Oshawa. They were over-involved throughout his time in Oshawa (on and off ice issues), and then pulled the same ******** when he was drafted to the NHL. And once he was traded to Philadelphia.

No player is above the team or the game. Unfortunately, I think Bonnie and Carl drilled into Eric's head that he is better than the game or any team, and he believed them.
I don't believe the bold part. His actions on the ice indicate differently.

Everything else you said is true and it's unfortunate that parents are part of the package. But they are. Almost always. Either handle it (if your capable) or let the situation infest to the point where it becomes unbearable and cut ties. But don't hate on the one who probably suffered the most, in this case Eric, he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. Impossible to keep everyone happy.

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08-11-2010, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Bobby Clarke reeks of the Flyers... and the Flyers first. Lindros was not about the Flyers first, and that became more and more apparent as time passed.

Everything I've said is pretty much dead on factual based on reports that came out at the time, or have come out since then. For example, Lindros got Podein traded (who was a fantastic role player for those teams) because Podein was infringing on his role as captain in his opinion. Apparently he had someone dealt -- I'm not sure who, it was never clear -- because he didn't pass enough to Lindros (apparently Clarke was informed of this by Carl).

So, it's possible you need to re-think this whole "Bobby infected every issue" thing... and ponder whether the Lindros clan infected every issue with THEIR sense of entitlement... given that, ya know, he was "The Next One." Something they bought into entirely.



Because his parents were all-*ing present in everything that was going on here then. They were always around... always talking to the media... always involved. Pressuring Clarke for trades and other crap. You cannot separate Lindros from his parents, they were a packaged entity. And, unfortunately for Lindros, there the reason he doesn't really have a home in the hockey world.

Lindros won the Hart when he was 21... that was before the **** hit the fan. Whole thing rang very hollow 5 years later.
Would love for clarke for write a little book on all the behind the scenes stuff that went on. That would be a good read.Never heard that podien story before though.

Actual shocked Eric never treid to make another comeback to be honest. Though he would take a year off then try it again. Heard he is as big as a house, fat that is.

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08-11-2010, 11:59 AM
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Would love for clarke for write a little book on all the behind the scenes stuff that went on. That would be a good read.Never heard that podien story before though.

Actual shocked Eric never treid to make another comeback to be honest. Though he would take a year off then try it again. Heard he is as big as a house, fat that is.
I forget where I heard/read the Podein thing, it was a while ago... but it makes a certain amount of sense, because I remember not understanding the Podein/Jones swap at the time... and Podein was very popular with the team and in the area. Even more irritating if you read the stuff about Podein from Bucci's writing about him on ESPN, just sounds like a really cool and fun guy.

I was kind of surprised, but at the same time Lindros was basically a shell of himself at the end... and given his concussion history, it probably made sense.

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08-11-2010, 12:49 PM
  #96
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I can see why some people liked Forsberg over Lindros but they had completely different situations. I never had mixed feelings on it and Foppa confirmed it when he stole money from the Flyers to play hurt for Sweden and returned on one leg.
Forsberg stole money? really? The guy wanted to play for his country. I have no problems with that. Many view playing for your country and winning a Gold medal more important then winning a Cup.

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It was my understanding that Clarke had told the trainers to put Lindros on a plane back home but Keith Jones insisted that he'd be taken to a hospital and was later credited for saving Erics life.
Anyways it was widely known that Clarke wanted Eric to toughen up and I'm sure that influenced other staff members on the Flyers, had they gotten theyre wish on this occasion Eric would have died.
LOL, you really believe that Clarke knew Lindros had a collapsed lung? If I recall i think the team had stayed in Nashville that night(I may be wrong about this). It had nothing to do with Clarke. Jones had gone out for dinner and Lindros had stayed in. Jones comes back and found Lindros in some trouble and called the trainers who called the ambulance.

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If Clarke was the egomaniac that you make him out to be, then the Flyers wouldn't have been one of the most popular destinations for players to come to throughout his tenure here.

Clarke was old school, and he didn't like an early-20s punk hijacking his franchise and having his parents/agent (note, that's a big problem) calling him up demanding that he trade players off the team because their son/client didn't get along with said players.
Some people accuse Clarke of being a egomaniac because he refused to cave in to Lindros being traded to Toronto and only Toronto. That was one of the things that led to him sitting out the following season. Clarke was not going to let any player. let alone big bad Eric Lindros and his idiot parents dictate to him where he plays.

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08-11-2010, 01:11 PM
  #97
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Do explain.

Despite his exemplary play here, there were few redeeming qualities in the end for the Lindros tenure. Between the off-ice BS, and the front office hissy fits he threw and caused... the playoff return only to then refuse to play here again was the icing on the cake. If he knew he was done with Philly, he should have just stayed off the ice.

So, **** him.
From what I remember he almost scored in 1st period of that game but time ran out. To say that he came back to hurt our team is......... obtuse?

On teh ice he did what he could. He was our best player on most nights when he was playing for is . So why **** him?

You do not really know why he refused to play for us after that. He criticized Flyers medical and organization. Maybe he had every right to do so? Check out his injuries. It's amazing.
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08-11-2010, 01:12 PM
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Big E was the ****ing man.

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08-11-2010, 01:46 PM
  #99
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its not the trainers and doctors fault Lindros never learned to not skate with his head down.

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08-11-2010, 01:49 PM
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From what I remember he almost scored in 1st period of that game but time ran out. To say that he came back to hurt our team is......... obtuse?
That team was playing like a "team" in every sense of the word... when he came back, it was suddenly the Eric Lindros show, and they lost their edge. He hurt the team by coming back, and then he got knocked out in Game 7 and that was ball game.

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On teh ice he did what he could. He was our best player on most nights when he was playing for is . So why **** him?
He was the best player in the league for a number of years there, IMO. However, he ended it all by being a massive douchenozzle. So, **** him.

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You do not really know why he refused to play for us after that. He criticized Flyers medical and organization. Maybe he had every right to do so? Check out his injuries. It's amazing.
.
Well, when you play like a bull in a china shop and love to skate around with your head down, you're going to get *ing hurt. Sort of the way it goes. Isn't like his injury problems ended when he left Philadelphia.

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