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08-02-2010, 11:48 AM
  #1
Maximum Cheddar
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Just wondering?

Greetings Dallas fans! I am a Leafs fan and I am wondering, since your team is always rumored to be in on a Kaberle trade, what would you realisticly offer for Kaberle. I would also like to add that I am not one of those ignorant Leafs fans who thinks you should trade Neil for him that's just not realistic. Thanks for your input and good luck in the upcomming season.

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08-02-2010, 11:55 AM
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I really do not think the stars get him. i think that they are more likely to go into the season as is or trade Ribiero for the best defensemen of similar or lower salary he can garner. Given the poor market for Ribs and TOR lack of interest in him, the status quo is most likely.

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08-02-2010, 12:48 PM
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It's not rumours, it's Leafs fans making ridiculous proposals to get one of our great young wingers.

Realistically all things considered, I would offer Alex Chiasson, take it or leave it.

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08-02-2010, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Starnsy View Post
Realistically all things considered, I would offer Alex Chiasson, take it or leave it.
I concur. As a fanbase we should all get together and counter with Alex Chiasson in any proposals for Kaberle. No explaining our position, just here it is, take it or leave it.

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08-02-2010, 01:35 PM
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I'm still kind of partial to the idea of simply never responding to any Toronto thread, ever. That would require 100% participation though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Cheddar View Post
I would also like to add that I am not one of those ignorant Leafs fans who thinks you should trade Neil for him that's just not realistic..
mmm... irony!

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08-02-2010, 01:54 PM
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Maximum Cheddar
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First off I'm not sure what is so ironic. Secondly I said I don't think trading us Neil is a possibility because it is not a fair trade for you. Thirdly I think all teams make one sided proposals, the Leaf fans just make them far more over the top.

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08-02-2010, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximum Cheddar View Post
First off I'm not sure what is so ironic. Secondly I said I don't think trading us Neil is a possibility because it is not a fair trade for you. Thirdly I think all teams make one sided proposals, the Leaf fans just make them far more over the top.
You seem very nice which I appreciate, not all of your fellow Leafs' fans are quite so considerate. It was ironic because you spelled Neal's name wrong. I agree with your second point, in regards to Neal I just don't see the two teams being good trading partners, yes Stars have an abundance of potential wings (although with Eriksson playing RW for the past 2 seasons and Benn's move to C this is alleviated) which the Leafs need the Leafs don't have that young, stud PMD or a first round draft pick this year. Not a knock on Gunnarson but the Stars would be looking for someone more proven than him, hopefully not but he could be another Niskanen and regress terribly. In regards to your third point I would also say because there are so many Leafs fans they get posted way more often than other teams.

While Kaberle is a very nice trade asset, he just doesn't seem to be a good fit in Dallas. If Dallas was solid and only missing 1 piece to make that deep run in the playoffs I might be a fan of going after him, but as it is Dallas isn't in that position. Also there has been considerable concern about Kaberle's willingness to play in the WC and considering the assets Burke is seeking for Kabs a team would want to be reasonably sure that they have a pretty good shot of extending/re-signing him which with Dallas not especially competitive and their extensive travel schedule I would say the chances are pretty slim of Kabs reupping in Dallas.

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08-02-2010, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Cheddar View Post
First off I'm not sure what is so ironic. Secondly I said I don't think trading us Neil is a possibility because it is not a fair trade for you. Thirdly I think all teams make one sided proposals, the Leaf fans just make them far more over the top.
1. See what piqued bolded. Your statement about the fanbase is becoming increasingly ironic.
2. Thanks, post that thought next time you see a Leaf/Stars proposal.
3. Nice of you to notice.

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08-02-2010, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DoesURchickenFLY View Post
You seem very nice which I appreciate, not all of your fellow Leafs' fans are quite so considerate. It was ironic because you spelled Neal's name wrong. I agree with your second point, in regards to Neal I just don't see the two teams being good trading partners, yes Stars have an abundance of potential wings (although with Eriksson playing RW for the past 2 seasons and Benn's move to C this is alleviated) which the Leafs need the Leafs don't have that young, stud PMD or a first round draft pick this year. Not a knock on Gunnarson but the Stars would be looking for someone more proven than him, hopefully not but he could be another Niskanen and regress terribly. In regards to your third point I would also say because there are so many Leafs fans they get posted way more often than other teams.

While Kaberle is a very nice trade asset, he just doesn't seem to be a good fit in Dallas. If Dallas was solid and only missing 1 piece to make that deep run in the playoffs I might be a fan of going after him, but as it is Dallas isn't in that position. Also there has been considerable concern about Kaberle's willingness to play in the WC and considering the assets Burke is seeking for Kabs a team would want to be reasonably sure that they have a pretty good shot of extending/re-signing him which with Dallas not especially competitive and their extensive travel schedule I would say the chances are pretty slim of Kabs reupping in Dallas.
Well now that I see that I spelled Mr.Neal's name wrong the ignorant comment is hilarious. I spelled it like Chris Neil from Ottawa. You must understand us Leaf fans sometimes need to have things pointed out to us or in my case drawn in crayon. Your points are well thought out and presented in an equally friendly manner which I also appreciate. Thank you for your input.

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08-02-2010, 04:18 PM
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Adding Kaberle does not make Dallas competitive next season. Giving up anything for a player that will only be here one season makes no sense at all. Dallas does need a top line defenseman, but they need one that will be around for several years. That's not Kaberle. I don't see how any trade can be built around Kaberle and Dallas.

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08-02-2010, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by map94 View Post
Adding Kaberle does not make Dallas competitive next season. Giving up anything for a player that will only be here one season makes no sense at all. Dallas does need a top line defenseman, but they need one that will be around for several years. That's not Kaberle. I don't see how any trade can be built around Kaberle and Dallas.
I don't understand why everyone around here seems to think that Dallas has no shot of doing anything next year. Our top 6 is as good as anyone in the league with Eriksson, Richards, Neal, Ribeiro, Morrow, and Benn. That leaves Ott, Wandell, and possibly Brunnstrom on the third line. All three of those lines can score and play reasonable enough defence. In terms of defence, yeah we don't have the greatest D, but at the same time, our defence isn't terrible like some are making it out to be. 1-6 are capable of handling themselves quite well. No real number one but at the same time, good consistency throughout. Goaltending is a question mark, but I totally trust Lehtonen and I think he will do great this year.

This team may have some question marks but what team doesn't. I don't think we're going to be bad as some people think. We'll see I guess.

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08-02-2010, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Starsrule! View Post
I don't understand why everyone around here seems to think that Dallas has no shot of doing anything next year. Our top 6 is as good as anyone in the league with Eriksson, Richards, Neal, Ribeiro, Morrow, and Benn. That leaves Ott, Wandell, and possibly Brunnstrom on the third line. All three of those lines can score and play reasonable enough defence. In terms of defence, yeah we don't have the greatest D, but at the same time, our defence isn't terrible like some are making it out to be. 1-6 are capable of handling themselves quite well. No real number one but at the same time, good consistency throughout. Goaltending is a question mark, but I totally trust Lehtonen and I think he will do great this year.

This team may have some question marks but what team doesn't. I don't think we're going to be bad as some people think. We'll see I guess.
I've been saying that for a while, I believe we have a better team than Colorado did last season, and if Lehtonen has a good season and Raycroft is able to stand in and get some wins then we can make the playoffs.

The season may hinge on goaltending. Health and defensive improvement will be the other major factors.

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08-02-2010, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Starnsy View Post
The season may hinge on goaltending. Health and defensive improvement will be the other major factors.
Same thing could have been said about last season and the season before...

I'm optimistic about lots of pieces of this team. I just think we're still several players away, much more than just adding Kaberle. If management could spend to the cap, we could get there quicker. With out current group, if everything goes really, really great we could get lucky and compete for a low playoff seed. That would be quit an accomplishment.

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08-02-2010, 09:48 PM
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Same thing could have been said about last season and the season before...
Especially the season before.

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08-02-2010, 10:08 PM
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im cautiously optimistic. On paper the team should actually be fairly good. However, I think most good teams are less fragile than we are. By that I mean there are 2 or 3 players who getting injured would completely ruin are season. Like into the gutter bad. Most solid teams I think could survive better. I dont think theres a single player on chicago or sj or many of last years playoff teams that an injury to would result in missing the playoffs, let alone a complete collapse.

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08-03-2010, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Cheddar View Post
Greetings Dallas fans! I am a Leafs fan and I am wondering, since your team is always rumored to be in on a Kaberle trade, what would you realisticly offer for Kaberle. I would also like to add that I am not one of those ignorant Leafs fans who thinks you should trade Neil for him that's just not realistic. Thanks for your input and good luck in the upcomming season.
It's a good question, but you're not going to like the answer..

We aren't going to move young roster players, our top centers or our valued prospects for just one year of Kaberle. That's why we get ticked at Leaf fans, because they always ask for these parts.

In a deal for Kaberle alone, eligible names to move from Dallas would include..

Brunnstrom, Skrastins, Sutherby, Daley, and Niskanen. Add to that some of our minor league players and several but not all prospects..

Obviously, Dallas would have to combine a large number of those assets to equal Kaberle's value. That makes this a "quantity for quality" trade, and that's why it hasn't (and won't) happen.

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08-03-2010, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by EndBoards View Post
It's a good question, but you're not going to like the answer..

We aren't going to move young roster players, our top centers or our valued prospects for just one year of Kaberle. That's why we get ticked at Leaf fans, because they always ask for these parts.

In a deal for Kaberle alone, eligible names to move from Dallas would include..

Brunnstrom, Skrastins, Sutherby, Daley, and Niskanen. Add to that some of our minor league players and several but not all prospects..

Obviously, Dallas would have to combine a large number of those assets to equal Kaberle's value. That makes this a "quantity for quality" trade, and that's why it hasn't (and won't) happen.
i think you have some quality things listed in your eligible column. brunnstrom + niskanen + 2nd would get it done for me.

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08-03-2010, 05:45 PM
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i think you have some quality things listed in your eligible column. brunnstrom + niskanen + 2nd would get it done for me.
Not bad proposal. I'd consider jumping on it if their were say a 4 year extension that Kabs could drag along with him. Unfortunately not the case. And Dallas still has some expectations of their problem children that they are willing to give up on yet. They fit right now because they are cheap and Dallas is poor.

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08-03-2010, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon Casey 91 View Post
Not bad proposal. I'd consider jumping on it if their were say a 4 year extension that Kabs could drag along with him. Unfortunately not the case. And Dallas still has some expectations of their problem children that they are willing to give up on yet. They fit right now because they are cheap and Dallas is poor.
assume an extension at market value is a condition of the trade. you need to be prepared to give up something. were not just going to hand kaberle over for scraps.

brunnstrom is still a pretty good sized project and niskanen while with potential hasnt reached his potential yet so is still a risk. the contracts should balance as well or at least come close.

i suppose with brunstrom just being resigned it is unlikely he would be moved at this point.

i suppose if you guys arent prepared to give up anything then no hard feelings but there is little room to discuss things.

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08-03-2010, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndBoards View Post
Obviously, Dallas would have to combine a large number of those assets to equal Kaberle's value. That makes this a "quantity for quality" trade, and that's why it hasn't (and won't) happen.
I don't think Kaberle has that good of trade value. Kaberle's desire to remain in the East will limit the asset(s) West teams would be willing to give up for him as he'd strictly be a rental. At the trade deadline he'd have more value, but the problem then is his NTC is in effect.

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08-03-2010, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by gabeliscious View Post
assume an extension at market value is a condition of the trade. you need to be prepared to give up something. were not just going to hand kaberle over for scraps.

brunnstrom is still a pretty good sized project and niskanen while with potential hasnt reached his potential yet so is still a risk. the contracts should balance as well or at least come close.

i suppose with brunstrom just being resigned it is unlikely he would be moved at this point.

i suppose if you guys arent prepared to give up anything then no hard feelings but there is little room to discuss things.
Saying I'd consider jumping on if it were a 4 year extension means I'd be willing to part with what you proposed. Its all unlikely, not bad value.

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08-04-2010, 12:38 PM
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I don't think Kaberle has that good of trade value. Kaberle's desire to remain in the East will limit the asset(s) West teams would be willing to give up for him as he'd strictly be a rental. At the trade deadline he'd have more value, but the problem then is his NTC is in effect.
Agreed. That's why Dallas would never offer up any of their substantial or valuable pieces for him.

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08-13-2010, 03:57 PM
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piqued
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Hey guys! I'm going to make a Kaberle proposal! hahahaha

Outgoing
Ribeiro - 5 mil
Niskanen - ? between 800k and 1.3 mil
Glennie - 1.65 mil
Roman - 750k

Total probable NHL cap hit: ~ 6 mil (Glennie's ELC will slide and Roman will be in the AHL)

Incoming
Kaberle - 4.25 mil
Gunnarsson - 800k
Kadri - 1.72 mil

Total probable NHL cap hit: ~5 mil

OK, I'm actually being kind of serious here. This is mainly just to see if Stars fans would bite, which is why I'm posting it here. This deal does a couple of things. It save the Stars money next year. It opens up a spot for Benn at center. It gets them the offensive oriented D they need. It gets them the prospect they actually wanted at the draft and adds a real blue-chip center for the system, who they can afford to keep in the AHL for a year. It hedges against the possibility of Richards bolting. If everything goes wrong and you end up with neither Richards or Ribeiro, you still have Kadri and Benn as your top 2 centers. Not bad. Gunnarsson lets you still come away with something that helps the defense after Kaberle's likely departure.

Leafs get their 1st liner (not a rental) who will absolutely dominate with Kessel and who isn't 1 hit away from the end of his career like Savard. They compensate for the loss of Kadri with our best center prospect and then also Glennie who was picked right after him and who could still be turned into a center. They clear their defensive logjam and replace Kaberle with a similar offense-first guy under team control in Niskanen who needs a change of scenery and who balances out their shutdown-heavy roster.

Both teams get something for right now, something for the near future, and something for the longer-term while remaining generally salary neutral. If you don't like it you can go straight to hell. That's how you end a trade proposal, right?

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08-13-2010, 04:56 PM
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I don't hate it. I like that we get out from under Niskanen's increasingly bloated potential. I really like Kadri and was hoping he'd last until the Stars' pick. My main question would be about the Stars' prospects involved. How much would the Leafs want either? Glennie hasn't exactly lit the world on fire, and I'm not sure Roman would be more desirable than Chiasson, McKenzie, or Reilly.

If you don't want to swap some things around, then it's you who can go straight to hell.

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08-13-2010, 05:03 PM
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I went with 2 centers/potential centers because of their prospect depth chart. It's like all wingers past Kadri. They're also our 2 forward prospects with the most flat out skill.

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