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Orca Bay Screwed Up

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05-28-2004, 06:31 PM
  #1
Darth Vitale
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Orca Bay Screwed Up

I was just listening to Brian Burke from his stint on "Off The Record" on TSN the other day. I am Canuck fan, so there's some bias there, but I can honestly say that even if I wasn't a fan I'd have a lot of respect for this guy.

Class act all the way. He's a straight shooter, he handles the media extremely well, good insights on the current financial situation in the league, demands a lot of his players off the ice... the guy is exactly the kind of person I'd want running my team were I to be so lucky as to own one.

I cannot understand the logic behind firing this guy / refusing to renew his contract. By all accounts he did his job. Competitive, entertaining team without breaking the bank, team improved each year, good fan experience / ticket value... most trades and draft picks were quality moves... I just don't get it.

Hopefully he ends up with a top-notch club, because he deserves it.

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05-28-2004, 06:44 PM
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kmad
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He was fired for personal reasons. He didn't get along well with Stan McCammon.

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05-28-2004, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
He was fired for personal reasons. He didn't get along well with Stan McCammon.
That's just poor business practice. Personal reasons should never even enter a business decision.

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05-28-2004, 07:01 PM
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agreed.

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Old
05-28-2004, 07:01 PM
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I never thought that Burke handled the media all that well, he always came across as a big whiner, the Bertuzzi incident, after the Canucks got knocked out, blaming the ineffectiveness of Naslund on the Moore hit. Yes, he did a pretty good job of putting a competitive team together, but much like when Bryan Murray was the coach/GM of the Wings, he never could do anything to put the team over the top. In the world of sports, what have you done for me lately? see ya, bye.

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05-28-2004, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman
That's just poor business practice. Personal reasons should never even enter a business decision.
Untrue. If your employees don't get along, your business will not perform at its peak efficiency. In this case, Burke could care less if McCammon liked him or not, but evidently McCammon was too distracted by his little feud with Burke. And since McCammon is higher up, not to mention the right-hand man of the owner, he got what he wanted.
Politics is a big part of business, and they will enter into business decisions all the time. It can't be avoided.

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05-28-2004, 07:23 PM
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I think there are more reasons for Burke's dismissal then just the sour relationship between McCammon and Burke. Burke for all the good he has done for the Canucks is a poor judge of talent. He's made a lot of bad trades in which he has overpaid, he has let his ego get in the way in some situations dealing with players, has let players who could've helped the team walk over chump change, and although not directly his fault, the Canucks have had limited post-season success under him. Also, many believe that Dave Nonis brings all of the financial and economic acumen Burke brings, but is also a smarter hockey man and a more level headed person.

Although I don't agree with the way Orca Bay handled this situation, I think there are more factors to why Burke was let go than simply, "He didn't get along with McCammon".

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05-28-2004, 07:37 PM
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Burke did wonders for this team I think there were maybee a few reasons other then the sour relationship like only making the 2nd round and getting upset by Minnesota and Calgary but that's hardley a reason to fire the Dude IMO.

Stan McCammon's a pencil neck geek as well.

Burke took a Canucks team while it was down and made it something to be truely proud of.

Burke was a great GM and is a Great man and firing a dude over a personal reason like that was childish, I would have liked to see Stan be a bigger man and try to patch things up by re-signing burke instead he axes him.

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05-28-2004, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehc73
Untrue. If your employees don't get along, your business will not perform at its peak efficiency. In this case, Burke could care less if McCammon liked him or not, but evidently McCammon was too distracted by his little feud with Burke. And since McCammon is higher up, not to mention the right-hand man of the owner, he got what he wanted.
Politics is a big part of business, and they will enter into business decisions all the time. It can't be avoided.
You will not find a single business where everyone in the company gets along, even at the top. That's just how it is, you can't always get a group of people together that love each other. There will always be some who dislike one another, but it's up to them to be professional enough to set aside personal problems when making business decisions. You shouldn't fire/let go a good employee because another dislikes him, that'll turn around to bite you more often than not. Then again, as you said, politics play a big part and that's not always what happens, but it doesn't mean it's good business practice.

Not that it reflects badly on the owner, he has to make a decision either way, but it reflects badly more on McCammon, IMO.

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05-28-2004, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSJTOM
Burke did wonders for this team I think there were maybee a few reasons other then the sour relationship like only making the 2nd round and getting upset by Minnesota and Calgary but that's hardley a reason to fire the Dude IMO.

that should not be the GM's fault. if anything, the coach should take the heat for it.

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05-28-2004, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness
I never thought that Burke handled the media all that well, he always came across as a big whiner, the Bertuzzi incident, after the Canucks got knocked out, blaming the ineffectiveness of Naslund on the Moore hit. Yes, he did a pretty good job of putting a competitive team together, but much like when Bryan Murray was the coach/GM of the Wings, he never could do anything to put the team over the top. In the world of sports, what have you done for me lately? see ya, bye.
the "not getting the team over the top" theory would work had Nonis not been named GM. Nonis is practically a Burke clone and will manage the team in a very similar manor.

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05-28-2004, 07:54 PM
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As much as Brian Burke is a great guy and has done great things for this team I actually don't mine the move to bring in Nonis at all. Nonis was doing most of the work anyway -- other than trades. I never like the way Brian Burke had to pick a fight with every single person that covered the team and some that didn't. Who cares what Al Strachan has to say on national TV? Who cares what Tony Gallagher writes in his column? It was almost emberassing to see Brian Burke on TV every night airing out dirty laundry about his contract or how reporters are maggots or other such things.

I have to go.. but I'll finish this post later..

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05-28-2004, 08:01 PM
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IMO, a successful businessman does not let emotions get in the way of a good decision...

And you'd be surprised what you'd be willing to put up with (and who you'd be willing to work with) when millions of dollars are being made...

Sure everything is better and smoother when everyone is happy and get's along, but money is what matters most of all...

Before Burke, McCaw was losing millions of dollars... With Burke, McCaw was making millions of dollars...

McCaw is a successful businessman... IMO, there was much more to this than a p***ing contest between Burke and McCammon... IMO, after an analysis, ownership determined that Nonis was a better alternative than Burke... Ownership determined that they could likely get the same (or better) return out of Nonis, when compared to Burke - at a cheaper price...

IMO, the relationship between Burke and McCammon had a part in the decision... but a very minor part... IMO, the lack of playoff success had a part in the decision... but a very minor part...

Ownership simply liked the Nonis alternative over the Burke alternative... I know that this isn't a sexy or dramatic theory (like a political conspiracy theory would be)... But IMO, this is the most reasonable explanation...

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05-28-2004, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehc73
Untrue. If your employees don't get along, your business will not perform at its peak efficiency. In this case, Burke could care less if McCammon liked him or not, but evidently McCammon was too distracted by his little feud with Burke. And since McCammon is higher up, not to mention the right-hand man of the owner, he got what he wanted.
Politics is a big part of business, and they will enter into business decisions all the time. It can't be avoided.
Good post. To add to that... in almost all cases where someone is let go for political reasons he can be replaced by someone with the same abilities that gets along with the management figure better. Whether or not that's the case in this example remains to be seen.

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05-28-2004, 09:22 PM
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I disagree that he was a "class" act.

His actions immediately following the Bertuzzi incident were exactly the opposite.

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05-28-2004, 09:26 PM
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brian burle could take over don cherrys spot on cbc he is that entertaining

but his first love is running a hockey team not talking about how other teans run their organization etc

he is good tv

anddid his job well I admired him even if i sometimes think he is a hard @$$

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05-29-2004, 02:41 PM
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David Puddy
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I don't think that it is coincidental that Brian Burke played under Lou Lamoriello at Providence College.

Brian Burke is the reason Vancouver has become a great hockey team and should continue to be a force for at least the next few seasons. It was a foolish move to let him go.

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05-29-2004, 03:16 PM
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ArtG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Puddy
I don't think that it is coincidental that Brian Burke played under Lou Lamoriello at Providence College.

Brian Burke is the reason Vancouver has become a great hockey team and should continue to be a force for at least the next few seasons. It was a foolish move to let him go.
It's also no coincidence that Dave Nonis has worked closely with Brian Burke for the last 15 years..

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Old
05-29-2004, 04:00 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Puddy
I don't think that it is coincidental that Brian Burke played under Lou Lamoriello at Providence College.

Brian Burke is the reason Vancouver has become a great hockey team and should continue to be a force for at least the next few seasons. It was a foolish move to let him go.
How can the Canucks be a great hockey team when they haven't even gotten past the second round?

Burke is more than a few steps below Lamoriello when it comes to running a hockey club. The Devils also seem to draft pretty well (having great scouts helps too), I'm not sure if the same can be said about the Canucks.

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05-30-2004, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtG
As much as Brian Burke is a great guy and has done great things for this team I actually don't mine the move to bring in Nonis at all. Nonis was doing most of the work anyway -- other than trades. I never like the way Brian Burke had to pick a fight with every single person that covered the team and some that didn't. Who cares what Al Strachan has to say on national TV? Who cares what Tony Gallagher writes in his column? It was almost emberassing to see Brian Burke on TV every night airing out dirty laundry about his contract or how reporters are maggots or other such things.

I have to go.. but I'll finish this post later..
It was Al Strachan who tried to air dirty laundry about Burke's contract on live national television by telling a blatant lie.

Tony Gallagher deserves any public criticism that comes his way, and then some.

Burke was awesome with the media. He never lied to the media, and gave that respect back when it was given to him. That's how the world works. If Al Strachan and Tony Gallagher want to publish nothing but complete bull**** about Brian Burke, then they had better be able to take it too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vega007
I disagree that he was a "class" act.

His actions immediately following the Bertuzzi incident were exactly the opposite.
I cannot stand this.

Brian Burke was the Canucks GM....Bertuzzi is a Canucks player. It was Burke's job to backup his player.

For the record, Brian Burke never defended what Todd Bertuzzi did to Steve Moore. What Burke did do, was step up for Bertuzzi when the media took the opportunity to label Bertuzzi as anything and everything negative, short of calling Bertuzzi the devil in the flesh.

Any GM in the NHL would support their player in such a situation like Burke did with Bertuzzi.

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Old
05-30-2004, 01:53 AM
  #21
ArtG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
It was Al Strachan who tried to air dirty laundry about Burke's contract on live national television by telling a blatant lie.

Tony Gallagher deserves any public criticism that comes his way, and then some.

Burke was awesome with the media. He never lied to the media, and gave that respect back when it was given to him. That's how the world works. If Al Strachan and Tony Gallagher want to publish nothing but complete bull**** about Brian Burke, then they had better be able to take it too.
Calm down Van. You're missing my point.

What I was saying was that it DOESN'T MATTER what people like Gallagher or Strachan have to say because nobody believes it anyhow. They throw everything up on the wall and eventually something's bound to stick. That's how they make money. When Pavel Bure was in his prime Gallagher published all kinds of crap about him being associated the mafia and other ugly, unconfirmed stuff. But you didn't see Pat Quinn go on national TV and call him a maggot. That's what I find to be rather annoying with Burke. By picking a fight with someone over a story you just make the story even bigger and even more people hear about it. The point is, he doesn't need to pick a fight with everybody every time. Just ignore it. Tell me how many other GMs behave like Burke did.

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Old
05-30-2004, 02:35 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtG
Calm down Van. You're missing my point.

What I was saying was that it DOESN'T MATTER what people like Gallagher or Strachan have to say because nobody believes it anyhow. They throw everything up on the wall and eventually something's bound to stick. That's how they make money. When Pavel Bure was in his prime Gallagher published all kinds of crap about him being associated the mafia and other ugly, unconfirmed stuff. But you didn't see Pat Quinn go on national TV and call him a maggot. That's what I find to be rather annoying with Burke. By picking a fight with someone over a story you just make the story even bigger and even more people hear about it. The point is, he doesn't need to pick a fight with everybody every time. Just ignore it. Tell me how many other GMs behave like Burke did.
The problem is, sometimes Joe Fan will believe such nonsense coming from the ilk of Strachan & Co., because they're reporters right? Burke doesn't take that kind of crap from anyone. Of course, politically, it should be easier (and sometimes smarter) to let things go. However, it's not within his personality. He treats the media like they would treat him. In other words, you trash the team unfairly by printing something untrue, he trashes you. If you print something IN YOUR OPINION, he doesn't say anything about it.
Does he need to pick a fight with the media all the time? Heck no, it's mostly just a waste of energy because the media will KEEP doing all that crap. But you can bet his players respect him for standing up for what he believes in.

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