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Kovalchuk Contract Rejected

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Old
08-09-2010, 09:45 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Newark is a disgusting place. I've spent tons of time There. Have family and friends there. My entire family is from new York. LOL @ 'less than ten miles from lower Manhattan ' ten miles coming from Manhattan is like 50 miles anywhere else.

Same media market? Fine. Same fan/attendance market? Not even close.
Thank you. And, I love the smell in Elizabeth, NJ that you have to pass through to get to Newark from Manhattan. Let's be honest- New Jersey residents at Rangers game from Bergen, Hudson and Essex County - probably 2 -3 thousand. New York City residents at Devils game - 0.

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08-09-2010, 09:47 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by pacmanghostx View Post
I hate repeating myself, but Newark is exactly like any other large city. There are parts that are just fine, even at night, and that includes where the Devils play, which is home to a minor league ballpark, opera hall, numerous corporate headquarters and universities which are home to many students during the academic year. There's also an attractive and safe Portuguese neighborhood on the other side of Newark Penn Station, which is home to some kickass bars that have become a hotspot for Devils fans before and after games.

Also, there's terrible neighborhoods that Devils fans (or anyone else) have no business being in, nor do they need to go to. (See: South-Central Los Angeles)

Also, in regards to your last point, we are completely aware that it's a different attendance/fan market, and us Devils fans actually take a lot of pride in being a separate entity to support the team from our home state, instead of rooting for the hockey team from the same place as our baseball teams, etc. (Example: I'm a Devils and Yankees fan.)
I should have just said "Jersey" instead of Newark. Sorry, I really don't like Jersey as a state. I haven't been back for a few years now, but I never cared for it. Tenafly is OK. The shore CAN be nice, at times. Newark... I get through Newark as quickly as possible. I will say I love your mayor in Newark.

Also, personally I wasn't referring to crime or safety in particular. Certainly in Los Angeles I am not one to rag on crime rates in other places. Just my general distaste for Jersey. It wasn't out-of-towners that coined Jersey as the "armpit of America", its what people living there think about where they live. I know this because this is what the people I know who live there tell me, its not some completely uninformed or stereotyped opinion. Do I know everyone who lives in Jersey and know how they feel about it? Of course not. But I have spent my whole life close to people who live there, visiting there year after year, spending weeks at a time in various parts.

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It's like saying the LA media market doesn't cover Anaheim.
Quote:
Exactly.
LA technically covers Anaheim in major sports media... but not really. They may overlap to a degree, but that is very different than being one in the same.

But we are talking about Kovalchuk drawing in more fans here, not just whether people in other areas have easy television access to Devil's games. Certainly a few more New Yorkers will tune in to Devil's games to see Kovalchuk play. A few may even bear the miserable traffic at rush hour to get down to a few games here and there. But if we are trying to say that Kovalchuk will draw more fans to the Devils, and one of those reasons being because the Devils are so close to New Yorks market, well then we are talking about more than TV sets. Anaheim being relatively close to LA doesn't make people who live in LA want to drive down there very often. Anaheim usurped what fans they could from LA, which isn't many, and the rest grit their teeth and drive down when the Kings' play over there.

If Anaheim got Kovalchuk, I highly doubt you would see a marked increase in people just itching to drive down the 605, 5, or 405 at 5:30PM to see Kovy in a Ducks sweater.

If Anaheim was automatically a part of LA's market because of proximity, then the Angel's wouldn't have felt the need to change their name to the "Los Angeles Angel's of Anaheim".

By the way pacman, I'm sorry to come off slamming your hometown. But at the same time, you are welcome to slam mine. I don't like Jersey very much... but its not like I love Los Angeles.

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08-09-2010, 09:53 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by piston View Post
Thank you. And, I love the smell in Elizabeth, NJ that you have to pass through to get to Newark from Manhattan.
LOL, you try to roll up your windows, but it doesn't do any good!

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08-09-2010, 09:56 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by piston View Post
Thank you. And, I love the smell in Elizabeth, NJ that you have to pass through to get to Newark from Manhattan. Let's be honest- New Jersey residents at Rangers game from Bergen, Hudson and Essex County - probably 2 -3 thousand. New York City residents at Devils game - 0.
Uh... The Holland Tunnel and Pulaski Skyway doesn't go through Elizabeth. Not even remotely.

And besides, I'm sure there's some gnarly-smelling chemical plants in the industrialized areas of Los Angeles County.

As for New York City residents at Devils game, there are actually Manhattanites and Up-Staters who root for the Devils right here on HFBoards.

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I should have just said "Jersey" instead of Newark. Sorry, I really don't like Jersey as a state. I haven't been back for a few years now, but I never cared for it. Tenafly is OK. The shore CAN be nice, at times. Newark... I get through Newark as quickly as possible. I will say I love your mayor in Newark.

Also, personally I wasn't referring to crime or safety in particular. Certainly in Los Angeles I am not one to rag on crime rates in other places. Just my general distaste for Jersey. It wasn't out-of-towners that coined Jersey as the "armpit of America", its what people living there think about where they live. I know this because this is what the people I know who live there tell me, its not some completely uninformed or stereotyped opinion. Do I know everyone who lives in Jersey and know how they feel about it? Of course not. But I have spent my whole life close to people who live there, visiting there year after year, spending weeks at a time in various parts.

LA technically covers Anaheim in major sports media... but not really. They may overlap to a degree, but that is very different than being one in the same.

But we are talking about Kovalchuk drawing in more fans here, not just whether people in other areas have easy television access to Devil's games. Certainly a few more New Yorkers will tune in to Devil's games to see Kovalchuk play. A few may even bear the miserable traffic at rush hour to get down to a few games here and there. But if we are trying to say that Kovalchuk will draw more fans to the Devils, and one of those reasons being because the Devils are so close to New Yorks market, well then we are talking about more than TV sets. Anaheim being relatively close to LA doesn't make people who live in LA want to drive down there very often. Anaheim usurped what fans they could from LA, which isn't many, and the rest grit their teeth and drive down when the Kings' play over there.

If Anaheim got Kovalchuk, I highly doubt you would see a marked increase in people just itching to drive down the 605, 5, or 405 at 5:30PM to see Kovy in a Ducks sweater.

If Anaheim was automatically a part of LA's market because of proximity, then the Angel's wouldn't have felt the need to change their name to the "Los Angeles Angel's of Anaheim".
The difference between Anaheim and New Jersey is that hockey is probably a lot more popular in New Jersey, and there's a lot more fans willing to go to the arena and see Kovalchuk, which is evident in the attendance numbers after the Devils acquired him. There are two hockey rinks for each county, there's a thriving high school hockey scene, and Devils have the seventh highest number of average households tuned into a game on any given night. New Jersey, and New Jersey alone could potentially hold it's own as a large market in the near future.

And New Jersey ain't that bad, and is actually a very beautiful state once you get to the remote parts along the Delaware River. Hell, Bergen, Essex, and Morris Counties have some attractive parts that many affluent and well-known residents call home.

NJ = Underrated.

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08-09-2010, 10:04 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by kingsholygrail View Post
It's like saying the LA media market doesn't cover Anaheim.
Well, Anaheim (OC Register) doesn't cover L.A...

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08-09-2010, 10:09 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by pacmanghostx View Post
Uh... The Holland Tunnel and Pulaski Skyway doesn't go through Elizabeth. Not even remotely.

And besides, I'm sure there's some gnarly-smelling chemical plants in the industrialized areas of Los Angeles County.

As for New York City residents at Devils game, there are actually Manhattanites and Up-Staters who root for the Devils right here on HFBoards.



The difference between Anaheim and New Jersey is that hockey is probably a lot more popular in New Jersey, and there's a lot more fans willing to go to the arena and see Kovalchuk, which is evident in the attendance numbers after the Devils acquired him. There are two hockey rinks for each county, there's a thriving high school hockey scene, and Devils have the seventh highest number of average households tuned into a game on any given night. New Jersey, and New Jersey alone could potentially hold it's own as a large market in the near future.

And New Jersey ain't that bad, and is actually a very beautiful state once you get to the remote parts along the Delaware River. Hell, Bergen, Essex, and Morris Counties have some attractive parts that many affluent and well-known residents call home.

NJ = Underrated.
You can talk all you want. JDM and I are from the area. I know Newark. I spent 21 years in The City and have lived 24 years in LA. I have traveled to 48 states. I am only one opinion. But, Newark is the worst city in America save Detroit, IMO. Mid Town Manhattan attracts a very hip crowd. Thinking that Newark and Manhattan are the same market is farcical, IMO. Come on over the Hudson one of these nights and check out all the 20 somethings that are frequenting the eateries and bars near MSG. These people would no more go to Newark than they would Siberia. They know Sean Avery is cool. Ilya who? I appreciate the fact you love your team, but so do the fans of the KC Royals. The only difference is that you have a better TV contract and a genius as GM. He is trying to push your owner out behind the scenes, let this play out.

Oh, and where I grew up, you have to take the Lincoln Tunnel to get to Newark and be privileged to appreciate the wonderful scent of Elizabeth, NJ. No, there is nothing comparable in LA.


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08-09-2010, 10:22 PM
  #207
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Teehee. Back on topic, check out the 20-page decision (linked from Wyshynski's twitter feed)

http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0...CNaVz6EG&hl=en

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08-09-2010, 10:28 PM
  #208
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I smelled most of the rotten plants in LA. There are some bad ones. But not even driving ten feet away from the disgusting cow slaughterhouse on the 5 freeway up north doesn't compare to some of the smells in Jersey!

Yes, some remote areas are very nice. I should note I am not actually from Jersey or New York. I am like a secondhand citizen over there. Parents all born there, raised there. Moved here and had me, but visited often and spent summers there throughout my childhood and early adulthood. Technically not from the area, but always felt like I was.

As for Anaheim having less hockey culture than Jersey... duh. That wasn't the point. It was an apples to apples comparison of a smaller city sucking at the teet of a larger city.

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08-09-2010, 10:30 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by piston View Post
You can talk all you want. JDM and I are from the area. I know Newark. I spent 21 years in The City and have lived 24 years in LA. I have traveled to 48 states. I am only one opinion. But, Newark is the worst city in America save Detroit, IMO. Mid Town Manhattan attracts a very hip crowd. Thinking that Newark and Manhattan are the same market is farcical, IMO. Come on over the Hudson one of these nights and check out all the 20 somethings that are frequenting the eateries and bars near MSG. These people would no more go to Newark than they would Siberia. They know Sean Avery is cool. Ilya who? I appreciate the fact you love your team, but so do the fans of the KC Royals. The only difference is that you have a better TV contract and a genius as GM. He is trying to push your owner out behind the scenes, let this play out.

Oh, and where I grew up, you have to take the Lincoln Tunnel to get to Newark and be privileged to appreciate the wonderful scent of Elizabeth, NJ. No, there is nothing comparable in LA.
Ilya who? To say that Rangers fans from Manhattan have no clue who Ilya Kovalchuk is beyond asinine.

Anyway, in the sense that Midtown Manhattan is a different market in terms of the crowd that's attracted, then yes, you may have a point. But in terms of physical location and media market, Manhattan and Newark are geographically the same. (Newark is actually considered one of the principal municipalities of the area, only behind NYC itself.)

And I've spent plenty of time in Midtown Manhattan, and it's a wonderful place, and I won't deny that for a second, however, to say that Newark is a complete joke and has nothing to offer for anyone in terms of bars or pre-game spots is farcical in its own right. Newark is making a comeback, and if you actually paid attention to anything outside of Los Angeles for the past 24 years, you'd know this...

Oh, and more thing. How did you manage going through a town not even remotely close to the path between Newark or the Lincoln Tunnel?



You must be thinking of Harrison or Kearny instead of Elizabeth... And for the record, those towns are getting redeveloped as well.

A lot has changed since you went out west, my friend. And it's been for the better.

Quote:
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As for Anaheim having less hockey culture than Jersey... duh. That wasn't the point. It was an apples to apples comparison of a smaller city sucking at the teet of a larger city.
In that case, I agree wholeheartedly. It's actually more of a unique case in Jersey, as maybe 99% of Devils fans don't actually live in Newark (as of now, anyway).


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08-09-2010, 10:48 PM
  #210
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You ain't so bad pacman... you ain't so bad

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08-09-2010, 10:57 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by pacmanghostx View Post
Ilya who? To say that Rangers fans from Manhattan have no clue who Ilya Kovalchuk is beyond asinine.

Anyway, in the sense that Midtown Manhattan is a different market in terms of the crowd that's attracted, then yes, you may have a point. But in terms of physical location and media market, Manhattan and Newark are geographically the same. (Newark is actually considered one of the principal municipalities of the area, only behind NYC itself.)

And I've spent plenty of time in Midtown Manhattan, and it's a wonderful place, and I won't deny that for a second, however, to say that Newark is a complete joke and has nothing to offer for anyone in terms of bars or pre-game spots is farcical in its own right. Newark is making a comeback, and if you actually paid attention to anything outside of Los Angeles for the past 24 years, you'd know this...

Oh, and more thing. How did you manage going through a town not even remotely close to the path between Newark or the Lincoln Tunnel?



You must be thinking of Harrison or Kearny instead of Elizabeth... And for the record, those towns are getting redeveloped as well.

A lot has changed since you went out west, my friend. And it's been for the better.



In that case, I agree wholeheartedly. It's actually more of a unique case in Jersey, as maybe 99% of Devils fans don't actually live in Newark (as of now, anyway).
My nose smells the delicious odor when I drive to Newark. You can't get around it. I travel everywhere in the U.S. Detroit and Newark are the worst. Glad you love your team, but you can't change the geography. Love Chris Christie, though.

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08-09-2010, 11:16 PM
  #212
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My nose smells the delicious odor when I drive to Newark. You can't get around it. I travel everywhere in the U.S. Detroit and Newark are the worst. Glad you love your team, but you can't change the geography. Love Chris Christie, though.
Chris Christie is a bad ass.

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08-09-2010, 11:18 PM
  #213
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I really think the arbitrator did the Devils a favor here. The only losers here are Kovalchuk and Grossman. Now Kovalchuk has to either go back to Russia, or sign with NJ under much less favorable terms.

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08-10-2010, 12:17 AM
  #214
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My nose smells the delicious odor when I drive to Newark. You can't get around it. I travel everywhere in the U.S. Detroit and Newark are the worst. Glad you love your team, but you can't change the geography. Love Chris Christie, though.
Oh, I'm not disputing that.

The chemical plants down the Turnpike between Newark and Elizabeth are horrific. But to say that most of the state (or even most of Newark) smells like that would be a blanket statement.

I remember going through Harrison on 280 once and one of the petrol plants spit out a nice cloud of God-Knows-What... Needless to say, my eyes watered.

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You ain't so bad pacman... you ain't so bad
Back at ya, chief.

Needless to say, I want this Kovalchuk debacle to end if only for there to be some sense of peace restored on HFBoards.

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I really think the arbitrator did the Devils a favor here. The only losers here are Kovalchuk and Grossman. Now Kovalchuk has to either go back to Russia, or sign with NJ under much less favorable terms.
I think the terms will most likely be more unfavorable for the Devils instead of Kovalchuk.

Kovy's going to get his money regardless, but the Devils will probably have a higher cap hit on the books. Not sure if it will be that big of deal when trying to resign Parise (that is, if Rolston and Salavador are moved), but who knows how it can affect the organization in the long run.

As I said before, I believe the highest cap hit the Devils can allot for this guy is $7.25M.


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08-10-2010, 01:33 AM
  #215
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I hate repeating myself, but Newark is exactly like any other large city. There are parts that are just fine, even at night, and that includes where the Devils play, which is home to a minor league ballpark, opera hall, numerous corporate headquarters and universities which are home to many students during the academic year. There's also an attractive and safe Portuguese neighborhood on the other side of Newark Penn Station, which is home to some kickass bars that have become a hotspot for Devils fans before and after games.

Also, there's terrible neighborhoods that Devils fans (or anyone else) have no business being in, nor do they need to go to. (See: South-Central Los Angeles)

Also, in regards to your last point, we are completely aware that it's a different attendance/fan market, and us Devils fans actually take a lot of pride in being a separate entity to support the team from our home state, instead of rooting for the hockey team from the same place as our baseball teams, etc. (Example: I'm a Devils and Yankees fan.)



Exactly.
Newark is disgusting. The town smells. The people smell. The people are rude and look like they are sweating all the time. It's a city of slum. There is a reason why travel agencies suggest avoiding it entirely. I'm sure you've been to other cities. How can you even defend it?

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08-10-2010, 01:38 AM
  #216
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Hearing about all these crazy chemical plants and **** is like a movie to me. I've spent the majority of my life in Las Vegas, NV, and there's nothing like that out here in the desert. Nothing.

But I'm sure you guys couldn't relate to an average high school weekend being spent at Caesars. So all is even, I guess.

Vegas needs a pro sports team.

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08-10-2010, 03:10 AM
  #217
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Kovy wanted to join a team which could win the cup.

If he stays with the Devils he never will be close since his contract will **** up the chances to do so.

He is not so smart or it is all about the money and who cares about the cup.

IMO he is a guy who has great elite talent without brains.


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08-10-2010, 03:28 AM
  #218
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This whole cap thing in U.S. sports is pre-school backwards. I understand it's intent to level the playing field. But who cares. There's always the popular kid in class, and the poor kid. In real life, there's people that have and have not. If a team is wiling to pay Kovalchuk his 100 mil, they shouldn't have to work around a "cap". If they can financially support it, who cares about a imaginary "cap".

Made the playoffs for the first time in eight years! still happy and excited about next year. but what a energy drained off season for me...

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08-10-2010, 04:01 AM
  #219
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This whole cap thing in U.S. sports is pre-school backwards. I understand it's intent to level the playing field. But who cares. There's always the popular kid in class, and the poor kid. In real life, there's people that have and have not. If a team is wiling to pay Kovalchuk his 100 mil, they shouldn't have to work around a "cap". If they can financially support it, who cares about a imaginary "cap".

Made the playoffs for the first time in eight years! still happy and excited about next year. but what a energy drained off season for me...
Marx would disagree. And so would I.

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08-10-2010, 04:34 AM
  #220
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Well, Anaheim (OC Register) doesn't cover L.A...
But the LA Times covers Anaheim. And the Los Angeles Angels are located in Anaheim.

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08-10-2010, 04:42 AM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Roxo View Post
This whole cap thing in U.S. sports is pre-school backwards. I understand it's intent to level the playing field. But who cares. There's always the popular kid in class, and the poor kid. In real life, there's people that have and have not. If a team is wiling to pay Kovalchuk his 100 mil, they shouldn't have to work around a "cap". If they can financially support it, who cares about a imaginary "cap".

Made the playoffs for the first time in eight years! still happy and excited about next year. but what a energy drained off season for me...
The irony in this post is rich.....if there was no cap the Kings wouldn't have even been in the conversation for Kovi, and they would most likely have even less of a chance to compete in the NHL now-a-days. Teams like the Habs, Rags, Leafs could easily have 75+mil in annual salary, with the Nucks, Wings, Flyers and maybe others in the Northeast spending almost as much.

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08-10-2010, 06:00 AM
  #222
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The irony in this post is rich.....if there was no cap the Kings wouldn't have even been in the conversation for Kovi, and they would most likely have even less of a chance to compete in the NHL now-a-days. Teams like the Habs, Rags, Leafs could easily have 75+mil in annual salary, with the Nucks, Wings, Flyers and maybe others in the Northeast spending almost as much.
Yup, without a cap Kovy would be a Ranger, Hab, or Leaf.

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08-10-2010, 07:59 AM
  #223
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The NHL is on a roll now: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/L...778/story.html

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08-10-2010, 08:44 AM
  #224
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Kovalchuk is a very good draw in New Jersey. Despite what our attendance numbers trick the very dense into thinking, the Devils are very popular in New Jersey and retain a passionate fanbase legitimately interested in the sport of hockey. Since Kovalchuk arrived, average attendance saw a significant increase and the fans were very excited about having a superstar on the home team.

And if Kovalchuk can be marketed in New York, he can be marketed in New Jersey. The Rangers and Devils are in the same market.

Don't let the Devils' fans lie to you. The only way to reduce the echo at the Rock is to bring the Islanders, Flyers or Rangers into the building. For a winning team, they have the worst fan base in all of sports. And Kovy will not fix that. The few fans they have are loud on blogs but they choose not to make the trip to the hell that is Newark to support their team in person.

Kovy will be a Devil and this signing will stunt this franchise for 10 years. Your move Lou.

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08-10-2010, 09:01 AM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
And if Kovalchuk can be marketed in New York, he can be marketed in New Jersey. The Rangers and Devils are in the same market.
No they are not.

No one from the City, Long island or Connecticut goes to Devils' games. People from all these locales AND people who live in New Jersey will be seen at Rangers games.

New York City is a media, cultural and financial capital. Newark is an embarrassment.

I would bet that the Rangers revenues from sponsors and merchandise sales dwarf that of the Devils.

Yes, for television purposes, both teams and the Islanders are in the 'same market'. But saying that IK will have the same impact on the Devils as he would playing in Hollywood or on Broadway is just wrong.

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