The Lounge"...Where the parking lot of the Igloo meets the concourse of the Nassau County Coliseum and the bathroom line of the Skyreach..." - Wickedbsfan
How so? It's no secret that Quebec gets a ridiculously large amount of equalization money every year from "have" provinces, and very cheap tuition is one of the many benefits they receive. There is something very wrong with the system when have-not provinces have better services than have provinces. That's Canada though, and that's Quebec.
Because to suggest that Alberta's equalization payments fully fund Quebec's education system is incredibly short-sighted.
I am a History major and an English Literature minor student. I have absolutely no intent on being a teacher or an academic when I graduate in about a year. I take the courses I take because: 1) I find writing papers about British imperial sentiments in the Victorian era much easier compared to (for example) a lab report, and 2) because I enjoy the subject(s) as well. It seems that people are too focussed on getting a "valid" degree that will earn them the maximum amount of money, rather than appreciating the growth of your own character and personality as a result of being exposed to different opinions, thoughts and the like.
tl;dr version: I like my liberal education, thank you very much.
I do see this as a valid reason to study something. Personally I really like history as well and do wish I maybe could have taken some history courses to enrich my interests. If you are genuine in what you say and are not just using it as an excuse, all the power to you. What turned me off from pursuing history was my neighbor who graduated with a B.A. in History. He worked at the LCBO 10 years after he graduated and I wouldn't be able to justify spending all that time and money on education to work at a grocery store/burger joint/retail store.
School is dirt cheap here in Quebec compared to the rest of NA.
Also, for those who said Cegep is free: it isn't. But 250$ (or less) per year in fees is nothing.
I went to John Abbott (the link posted a few pages earlier) and I paid 132 a semester, so you're right on the mark. Books can be expensive but I don't know many people who pay full price for books anymore.
On the other hand my GF goes to McGill and Pays 1600 a semester. That's a really low price for a prestigious University but it doesn't mean much because a lot of her teachers suck and she hates it there, but I want her to finish so that we can be rich,
I went to John Abbott (the link posted a few pages earlier) and I paid 132 a semester, so you're right on the mark. Books can be expensive but I don't know many people who pay full price for books anymore.
On the other hand my GF goes to McGill and Pays 1600 a semester. That's a really low price for a prestigious University but it doesn't mean much because a lot of her teachers suck and she hates it there, but I want her to finish so that we can be rich,
Lol, she won't get rich because she goes to McGill. If only it would be like that
With the tuition increase I'm topping 1900$ for this upcoming semester at McGill. Still, 10-12k for a degree in one of the best universities in the world (yes I know, it depends on the field) is nothing compared to others.
Out of curiosity what does Canada do differently in terms of education than the United States? Why is the Canadian graduation rate higher than the American one?
Because tuition is like 3000$ + books so like 1000$ a semester on books maybe more if you're taking classes with expensive books.
In the states any good college costs thousands upon thousands per month and the other ones give you a piece of paper not even worthy of being used as toilet paper (the more affordable ones).
I can go to McGill for cheap where as if you wanted to go to an equivalent school in the states it would cost you a fortune.
Back when I was just getting into college I remember anyone could get in, but apparently now there's such a high fluctuation of people going to school they can basically hand pick who they accept, in other words they don't need to lower their standards to fill classrooms. So obviously in a situation like this where all the people being accepted annually are good students, you are going to have a huge success rate.
Yes it is. The Quebec post-secondary system is set up so that Quebec born residences(or people who have been living there for X amount of years) pay significantly less than those outside of the province, or outside of the country would pay at the same school for the same program.
This is what you or I would pay at McGill for the same program:
Alberta pays for you to go to College. I pay for you to go to College. I find it a little frustrating that you guys seem to just think the government is paying for it. They aren't. I am. What's the icing on the cake, is I get taxed over 40%, so I can pay for your College.
Awesome.
Yeah well that's life. You know I did tons of free online tutorials, put in tons of hours of learning and practice to get where I am. I didn't require the education system to give me a job in fact I've always found it's a piss poor system for many programs.
Point is though half my salary is taxed too and I'm paying for other people to go to school too. Some of those people need the school because they're going to be doctor's lawyer's and pharmacists. Others are going to do pointless programs that can be self taught and are in the stone age in terms of education.
One I'll give you is Computer Science. For any knowledgeable computer person the first 2 years of this program in most cases are a complete and total waste of time. Half the stuff you already know if you are a knowledgeable computer person. The problem is people don't choose their educational path based on what they want to do. Half the people you would see in the program lack passion about computers/programming/etc. They're in the program because they were told "computers are where the money is" just like many people who go into law etc.
Problem is if you don't have natural talent at it, don't have the passion to do it, why do it? If you do have the talent for it, do have the passion for it, why do a bunch of courses you could basically already teach. I went the path of dropping out, choosing a specific thing to learn and I did. The bottom line is in many job fields a piece of paper means more than anything, in other fields it means jack **** and people just want experience.
In the IT world I find people are fed up of incompetence now a days. They don't care what piece of paper you have. The question is can or can't you do this, yes or no? If the answer is yes I'll take a quote if not good bye. I don't care about your piece of paper from Concordia and sadly that's how it's becoming, a waste of time.
Now obviously not all fields are like this and not all fields you can learn for free off of the internet rather then wasting your time with a bunch of general courses and bs. But in the cases where you can and where people value experience over a piece of paper, its far more viable than going to school. (Some people have a tough time learning on their own though and I can relate, luckily for me I had somebody to go to just in case )
In the IT world things are constantly changing. Going to school won't keep you ahead of the loop nor will it teach you anything that isn't already widely accepted already in the computer world. There are other programs like this as well. Point is you can learn a lot of these college programs through online courses/tutorials and practice, you won't have a piece of paper to prove anything but experience and word of mouth go a long way. (For free even off of youtube - some of the computer teachers I've had over the years are worse then the 10 year old kids on youtube)
I believe in education but I believe in doing it the right way. If you want to become a doctor go to med school, if you want to become a mechanic go to mechanics school, if you want to learn generally about computers and have no job after you graduate due to a flooded market and a program that's far too general, go into comp sci.
Not saying places like MIT don't have awesome programs for it, just saying most colleges the amount you learn in general over 3 years if you're already pretty good with computers is no where near as valuable as what you'll learn if you dedicate yourself to learning a specific trade of some kind. Be it programming (specific language) web development, networking (extreme level) or graphics design. This is all stuff you can learn by tutorials etc.
These are tons of pointless programs that basically waste your time and should either be improved or not exist at all. Obviously as I said some colleges specialize in art or medicine or computers and they may have programs that are ahead of the game but for the most part, I just don't see why certain programs which are piss poor should even exist in some schools. It's a waste of years of the persons life they could've otherwise dedicated to learning on their own and getting experience while they're at it.
I just wish some colleges would stop wasting peoples time. It seems they sometimes have a program just because they have to offer it, not because they have an even remotely good program, but hey I guess that's why you app to certain ones and not others. I just find it stupid to even offer something if it's going to be a total waste of time. If at the college level you still need to learn how to turn on and off a computer and copy/paste, chances are you shouldn't be taking comp sci.
You wouldn't see me going into law if I didn't even have the passion for it to figure out you need to go to court when you sue somebody, so I'd expect somebody who goes into a program to have some passion for it.
This all having been said (long post sorry) it's more the persons fault than the university because in our society people care about money more than having a job they're going to be good at or enjoy.
College/University is too easy. Too easy to graduate. Too easy to learn for a test and forget it later. I don't know how much I'll have learned from college once I graduate. I wish I had been challenged more. I wish there was incentive to learn and get good grades rather than sleep through or skip class, cram and pass a test.
It's like that at a lot of schools, probably the vast majority. But not if you go to a top shelf cutthroat place. The people who just want to float by will probably not be able to pull it off if they go somewhere like Caltech, MIT, Berkeley, etc..
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I dunno. I'd want to go to grad school just to do it (since I feel that's more likely where I would learn something) but I'll be 60 grand in debt once I graduate.
Good news is, in a lot of PhD programs you'll probably get paid (for your research), and generally tuition is waived.
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Maybe it's the way I am that I'm not learning as much as I'd like. Maybe the chance is there I just have to take initiative. It's not how universities make it seem though..
That's true anywhere ... if you just rely on going to class there's only so much you get out of it. The key is to get involved, like on research or a thesis project, where you can work closely with the faculty. That's where you put all the stuff you learn in classes towards DOING something.
Tuition is already ridiculously expensive, and then you have to pay an unreal amount for books every semester. I think the best thing to do is to go to a community college for 2 years and then transfer to the school you want to attend, you'll save a lot.
Im going to grad school next fall, and Im already ridiculously in debt from student loans for my bachelors. I don't really care anymore, I have no intentions of ever paying my debt back as I pretty much hate how our country operates when I look at other countries around the world and have been to other countries around the world as well.
The USA is ass backwards, thats all there is to it. Sorry to go on a rant, but the student loan crap Ive been dealing with lately with the company. Ill stop here anyway cause I'd just end up going on a political rant that would get the thread locked.
Last edited by PeterSidorkiewicz: 08-10-2010 at 01:17 PM.
USA tuition is ridiculously expensive unless you have a scholarship. The loans are out of this world. One of my aunts is STILL paying back a loan she had from college, and she graduated over 20 years ago. And whenever the government tries to do something to help out, the universities just raise tuition.
Case in point, my state of Tennessee. We instituted the state lottery scholarship. I'm not real sure on the numbers, but I think as long as you made at least a 20 on the ACT (not sure about SAT numbers... down here we really only focus on the ACT), you received money. It started small with about $1000 a semester, but by the time I graduated, I could have received $2500 a semester with a $1500 bonus for making over a 28 on the ACT. That should be plenty to go to a public institution. But the problem is that the Tennessee schools hiked tuition as the government aid increased, and gave out less scholarships from the institution. The University of Tennessee wouldn't give me a penny in scholarships. They only gave one of my friends who made a 32 $1500 a semester. That's part of why I went out of state because with the money I received from the University of Alabama ($36,000 and apparently climbing according to my recent student receivables check), it was actually a cheaper alternative than staying in state.
The point of all that is to say that college here isn't cheap. Most recently, a friend dropped out of community college because it was too expensive for her, and she was working. I can't blame her... a single class that I've been taking at the same institution this summer cost nearly $1000, plus a hundred dollar book, plus another hundred dollar workbook required for the class. And the loans are becoming more trouble than they're worth. It's all good until you have to pay them back. So no doubt other places have higher graduation rates than America. The trend will continue until students get help. And not just the poor students (who no doubt deserve help) or the super smart students (who also no doubt deserve help). But the average student needs help as well. The C,B students and the the ones who just barely miss the mark on getting the right test score.
Sorry for the epic rant post. This is one subject that grinds my gears.
USA tuition is ridiculously expensive unless you have a scholarship. The loans are out of this world. One of my aunts is STILL paying back a loan she had from college, and she graduated over 20 years ago. And whenever the government tries to do something to help out, the universities just raise tuition.
Case in point, my state of Tennessee. We instituted the state lottery scholarship. I'm not real sure on the numbers, but I think as long as you made at least a 20 on the ACT (not sure about SAT numbers... down here we really only focus on the ACT), you received money. It started small with about $1000 a semester, but by the time I graduated, I could have received $2500 a semester with a $1500 bonus for making over a 28 on the ACT. That should be plenty to go to a public institution. But the problem is that the Tennessee schools hiked tuition as the government aid increased, and gave out less scholarships from the institution. The University of Tennessee wouldn't give me a penny in scholarships. They only gave one of my friends who made a 32 $1500 a semester. That's part of why I went out of state because with the money I received from the University of Alabama ($36,000 and apparently climbing according to my recent student receivables check), it was actually a cheaper alternative than staying in state.
The point of all that is to say that college here isn't cheap. Most recently, a friend dropped out of community college because it was too expensive for her, and she was working. I can't blame her... a single class that I've been taking at the same institution this summer cost nearly $1000, plus a hundred dollar book, plus another hundred dollar workbook required for the class. And the loans are becoming more trouble than they're worth. It's all good until you have to pay them back. So no doubt other places have higher graduation rates than America. The trend will continue until students get help. And not just the poor students (who no doubt deserve help) or the super smart students (who also no doubt deserve help). But the average student needs help as well. The C,B students and the the ones who just barely miss the mark on getting the right test score.
Sorry for the epic rant post. This is one subject that grinds my gears.
Its just another way to widen the gap between the rich and the poor in this country. The already rich have no problems paying for school, the poor either cannot afford it, or enter a life of servitude paying off debt.
Its just another way to widen the gap between the rich and the poor in this country. The already rich have no problems paying for school, the poor either cannot afford it, or enter a life of servitude paying off debt.
My view isn't quite that extreme on the matter, but I can agree to that.
The people, such as my friend I mentioned in my last post, who aren't poor enough to receive aid, but aren't smart enough to receive it either, fall through the cracks. Her future is being a waitress. That's it. Now, there's nothing wrong with being a waiter or waitress, but it certainly doesn't pay all the bills when it (or other minimum wage, low pay jobs) is all that she can have right now. Of course, she did the stupid thing and got pregnant, so now she and her boyfriend (who dropped out because he really is an idiot) are going to have to support a family working these low pay jobs.
Granted, they did the stupid thing and got pregnant at a bad time in their financial lives. Also, granted, many people can get into a job and manage to work their way up. But the majority of people end up like my dad, who is a high school dropout. He makes just over $30,000 a year doing a labor intensive job (he installs/repairs windshields). He works in the extreme heat and the extreme cold. He climbs on top of trucks, 18 wheelers, and everything in between. He's already developing arthritis in his knees, elbows, wrists, and finger joints. If he had stayed in school one more year and gotten his high school diploma, he could be a manager doing office work, in the A/C in the hot summers and heat in the cold winters. He could be making at least $15,000 more a year.
That's just with a high school diploma. Granted, our generation, (the 17-25 year olds) need a lot more than a high school diploma. Now, we at least need a Master's degree to get a job that pays well enough to support a modern family. That's a lot of school and a lot of money. Luckily, I'll be debt free getting my Bachelor's. But I have no freaking clue how I'm going to pay for grad school.
So Canadians are so good at graduating from university we're not only doing it here but down south as well. Our women's hockey players are likely the only thing keeping the U.S. in the top 15.
My view isn't quite that extreme on the matter, but I can agree to that.
The people, such as my friend I mentioned in my last post, who aren't poor enough to receive aid, but aren't smart enough to receive it either, fall through the cracks. Her future is being a waitress. That's it. Now, there's nothing wrong with being a waiter or waitress, but it certainly doesn't pay all the bills when it (or other minimum wage, low pay jobs) is all that she can have right now. Of course, she did the stupid thing and got pregnant, so now she and her boyfriend (who dropped out because he really is an idiot) are going to have to support a family working these low pay jobs.
Granted, they did the stupid thing and got pregnant at a bad time in their financial lives. Also, granted, many people can get into a job and manage to work their way up. But the majority of people end up like my dad, who is a high school dropout. He makes just over $30,000 a year doing a labor intensive job (he installs/repairs windshields). He works in the extreme heat and the extreme cold. He climbs on top of trucks, 18 wheelers, and everything in between. He's already developing arthritis in his knees, elbows, wrists, and finger joints. If he had stayed in school one more year and gotten his high school diploma, he could be a manager doing office work, in the A/C in the hot summers and heat in the cold winters. He could be making at least $15,000 more a year.
That's just with a high school diploma. Granted, our generation, (the 17-25 year olds) need a lot more than a high school diploma. Now, we at least need a Master's degree to get a job that pays well enough to support a modern family. That's a lot of school and a lot of money. Luckily, I'll be debt free getting my Bachelor's. But I have no freaking clue how I'm going to pay for grad school.
Even worse is people who spend all that money to get a degree are still dumb as ****.
You wouldn't believe how many people I know who are going to university and can't tell the difference be than and then, or you're and your.
Going through all of those schools and whatnot, prevents you from working a full time job, but causes you to take massive loans. Those massive loans then pile up with car payments, and then rent and then visa bill potentially, next thing you know, you're making 2k a week, but 1,700 of that is going to paying bills, and you're in so much debt, the collectors have their hands stuck in your ass. On top of that, a lot of people go to school and then don't do well enough in it to get recognized when they graduate, so they get a basic job anyways.
Oh yeah, it seems fees for residence and tuition and books are always going up, while the number of years of education get longer, because they string it out to get more money from you, keeping you in school longer while the career you want is always changing, so when you're done, what you learned in first year is now obsolete. A friend of mine took a computer course and part of it was teaching you how to turn it on.
Of the FOUR HUNDRED best universities in the world, only 19 are in Canada. Only 4 of those are in the top 100: McGill, U of Toronto, U of BC, U of Alberta.
So my question is: How many students are graduating from a University that "matters" to put it bluntly? My University is up there and to be honest, it's really not even that great of a school... so yeah.
What does graduating from a university that "matters" have to do with graduation rates? A degree is a degree.
Secondly, there aren't that many universities in Canada. So 19 is a pretty good number.
A degree in chemical engineering from MIT is not the same as a degree in Art from Boris College.
Thats not what I meant. What I meant is a chemical engineering degree from the University of Alberta is equivalent to a chemical engineering degree from the University of British Columbia. As someone stated earlier, the university that you go to in Canada doesn't have nearly as much importance as in the U.S.
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