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Old
08-11-2010, 01:15 PM
  #1
wings5
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HF Hurricanes Top 20 prospects, Fall 2010

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...nes_prospects/

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08-11-2010, 01:37 PM
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Jerry Lundegaard
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This is useful...great breakdown.

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08-11-2010, 01:41 PM
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tarheelhockey
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It's finally here!

Mike Murphy is Gumby-esque

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08-11-2010, 02:14 PM
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dmarc
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You guys have such a sweet prospect pool, just giving you props : )

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08-11-2010, 02:21 PM
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geehaad
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Well, there goes the integrity of our remaining Prospect Polls!

The comparison so far:

Hockeys Future Top 8:
1. Jamie McBain, D, 8B
2. Jeff Skinner, C, 7.5B
3. Zach Boychuk, C, 7.5B
4. Zac Dalpe, C, 7.5C
5. Brian Dumoulin, D, 7.5C
6. Drayson Bowman, LW, 7.5C
7. Riley Nash, C, 7B
8. Bobby Sanguinetti, D, 7B

Our Top 8:
1) RW/C Jeff Skinner
2) D Jamie McBain
3) LW Zach Boychuk
4) C/RW Zac Dalpe
5) C Riley Nash
6) W Drayson Bowman
7) D Bobby Sanguinetti
8) D Brian Dumoulin

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08-11-2010, 02:32 PM
  #6
Anton Dubinchuk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geehaad View Post
Well, there goes the integrity of our remaining Prospect Polls!

The comparison so far:

Hockeys Future Top 8:
1. Jamie McBain, D, 8B
2. Jeff Skinner, C, 7.5B
3. Zach Boychuk, C, 7.5B
4. Zac Dalpe, C, 7.5C
5. Brian Dumoulin, D, 7.5C
6. Drayson Bowman, LW, 7.5C
7. Riley Nash, C, 7B
8. Bobby Sanguinetti, D, 7B

Our Top 8:
1) RW/C Jeff Skinner
2) D Jamie McBain
3) LW Zach Boychuk
4) C/RW Zac Dalpe
5) C Riley Nash
6) W Drayson Bowman
7) D Bobby Sanguinetti
8) D Brian Dumoulin
The same 8 guys.

Sincerely,
Captain Obvious

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08-11-2010, 03:06 PM
  #7
tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geehaad View Post
Well, there goes the integrity of our remaining Prospect Polls!

The comparison so far:

Hockeys Future Top 8:
1. Jamie McBain, D, 8B
2. Jeff Skinner, C, 7.5B
3. Zach Boychuk, C, 7.5B
4. Zac Dalpe, C, 7.5C
5. Brian Dumoulin, D, 7.5C
6. Drayson Bowman, LW, 7.5C
7. Riley Nash, C, 7B
8. Bobby Sanguinetti, D, 7B

Our Top 8:
1) RW/C Jeff Skinner
2) D Jamie McBain
3) LW Zach Boychuk
4) C/RW Zac Dalpe
5) C Riley Nash
6) W Drayson Bowman
7) D Bobby Sanguinetti
8) D Brian Dumoulin
One could argue that we're merely overrating guys we have never seen before.

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Old
08-11-2010, 03:23 PM
  #8
Vagrant
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Shocking to see Peters and Alt ahead of Osala. I also feel that Skinner has a greater upside than the tier of Bowman, Dalpe, and Boychuk who are all 7.5 rated for upside. I would have probably jumped and put Skinner as an 8.0 C or D. I would have also probably bumped McBain down to a 7.5 A due to what he showed us last year, which would have still put him behind Skinner.

I feel that Jerome Samson is again woefully underrated, but I have come to expect that and have come to grips with the fact that he's just a personal favorite of mine I suppose. I just don't think we respect the rarity of a 37 goal scorer in the AHL at only 22 years of age. If Dalpe came out and did that this season, his 21 year old season, he would be hailed as the next big thing even more than he already has been. I understand the difference in projected skill sets, but I think it's too early to typecast a player of his age with the dreaded "Keith Aucoin, Corey Locke, Ryan Bayda, Brett Sterling", tag as being the hockey equivalent to AAAA players in baseball. Samson may eventually be a victim of our depth, but his recently signed 2 year deal which compensates him handsomely at the AHL level tends to lead me to believe that the organization has a little more faith in him than these rankings indicate.

Additionally, I the line about Boychuk showing no fear going into traffic was a throw back to his Junior hockey and WJC days as opposed to what we saw last year. He needs to get that trait back because it certainly went missing last season. I hope it was just a case of youthful intimidation and not a harbinger of things to come.

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08-11-2010, 03:26 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
One could argue that we're merely overrating guys we have never seen before.
If we look at the numerical rankings as well as the letter grade designations, we can see that even Cory had trouble putting them in some sort of cohesive order based upon the "second tier" of prospects being so very close together. I think the board preference is closer to my own personal preference, but it's certainly hard to argue with any conviction that a player who is 5th on one list shouldn't be 7th on another, you know?

We have an army of 7.5 C type prospects that are virtually indistinguishable from one another in terms of upside. For that group from 5-10, we could probably just draw numbers from a bingo hopper.

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08-11-2010, 03:42 PM
  #10
Cory Lavalette
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Just don't see Samson as having top-six potential in the NHL. 6C indicates he's a third-line player with the potential to drop two ratings. He's already a top minor league player, so a 4 (what he'd drop to if he fell to rankings) seems fair. The rest of it lies with whether or not a person thinks he can play in the top six.

In no way does this indicate that Samson is bound to be a career minor leaguer.

As for Osala, he's yet to prove he can be a force at the next level. Still, a 6.5 pegs him as a second or third liner. Peters is already an NHLer and we should assume there's a chance he could get better than what he was. Hence the 7. Alt (and really any incoming guy) is tough, but in speaking to some people they feel that if he had made clear his plans to play hockey over football earlier that he could've been a first-round pick.

This isn't an exact science ... I've been wrong before, will be again. But always open to debate about it.

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08-11-2010, 04:39 PM
  #11
Vagrant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Lavalette View Post
Just don't see Samson as having top-six potential in the NHL. 6C indicates he's a third-line player with the potential to drop two ratings. He's already a top minor league player, so a 4 (what he'd drop to if he fell to rankings) seems fair. The rest of it lies with whether or not a person thinks he can play in the top six.

In no way does this indicate that Samson is bound to be a career minor leaguer.
Well, my opinion regarding the rankings is a little more generous I suppose. When I view a player in terms of "upside", and look at a guy like Samson it seems like to me that if he even has a snowball's chance at being a Top 6 player, which I think wouldn't be an overly generous line of thought considering the year he had in the AHL last season, then he can achieve that 7.0 or 6.5 rating. Perhaps penalize him in the letter grade department and bump it down to a D if you have doubts regarding the ability for that to come to fruition. Again though, they're obviously not my rankings but I think to disqualify him as never.... even under the most unique circumstances... as not having the ability to play in a Top 6 is a bit too early of a call to make. I mean, we would have said the same thing about Larose a few years ago and as improbable as his rise to prominence has been, there is a chance he plays there this year according to the Canes depth chart on their website. I know by that logic you could say, "well, everybody has a CHANCE to be that productive", but my counter to that would be that there are players in our system that you can pretty clearly disqualify from that. Jared Staal being among them, and he is actually rated higher than Samson despite Samson being a more productive scorer in the AHL than Staal was in the OHL by a decided margin. I realize he's still just a kid, but I don't see the offensive game ever coming along like his brothers.

Quote:
As for Osala, he's yet to prove he can be a force at the next level. Still, a 6.5 pegs him as a second or third liner. Peters is already an NHLer and we should assume there's a chance he could get better than what he was. Hence the 7. Alt (and really any incoming guy) is tough, but in speaking to some people they feel that if he had made clear his plans to play hockey over football earlier that he could've been a first-round pick.

This isn't an exact science ... I've been wrong before, will be again. But always open to debate about it.
In regards to my mention of Osala, the most commonly made projection is Osala to Erik Cole. That label has hung around for quite a while. If you view that as his ultimate upside, with the knowledge that Cole once upon a time was a VERY good 2nd line player and a pretty darn good 1st line player for 60 games, then perhaps it stands to reason that he could be a bit more highly regarded than that. With the power forward types, I can understand the reservedness to supplant safer bets, but the upside still has to be represented fairly. For a player that is only 22 and is playing for his national team at the World Championships, it's obvious that somebody has some faith in the kid. He's growing into his body and his hands are already pretty good.

As you say, it's pretty difficult with Alt with all things considered which would cause me to err on the side of reserved optimism behind prospects that have actually filled some of that potential they hold. I can't really find a lot of fault with the ideology that he could be a better player, because he easily could be, but providing him with such an ambitious ranking to start could prove hazardous if he falters out of the gate.

In regards to Peters, I liked him much more than Murphy at this same time last season and thought he would be a better player but his impact is likely limited at the NHL level being blocked to the extent that he is blocked. Goaltenders should probably even have their own ranking system to avoid mixing them with skaters. It's just way too hard to account for the positional difference. It's like a totally different set of projections.

And I by no means want to claim my viewpoint as superior or correct either, because I have been burned too and been wrong several times myself, but it's always fun to debate a bit about these guys. They're all relatively close together.

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08-12-2010, 07:57 AM
  #12
Cory Lavalette
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I think we can all agree things look a lot brighter now than they did four years ago. It wasn't that long ago that Bobby Hughes was way up this list.

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08-12-2010, 08:20 AM
  #13
Guerzy
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Our prospect cupboard has most certainly taken a turn for the better in recent time. The organization has finally seemed to turn a page in both better drafting and developing.

I don't intend to nit-pick at the prospect rankings, as it's really anyone's best guess as these guys could fall in many different orders, but Jared Staal at 14 and Jerome Samson at 20? I understand the ranking process and with that said if both are projected to likely tap out as bottom 6 guys, doesn't Samson's higher end potential for the position and the stronger likelihood of reaching that ceiling place him above Staal? Samson is atleast worthy of some recognition here for his stellar play, development and progression in the AHL at such a young age the past 3 seasons in my mind. I mean, I love the Staals as much as the next guy, but the name can only carry you so far and in this case, it's a tad mind numbing how Jared sits 14th yet Samson, who in my opinion stands a much better chance at atleast developing into a steady 3rd line guy with an offensive game (potentially for us, as any of these guys do) over that of Jared Staal. In all likelihood Samson stands a better shot at reaching his top end potential, which many believe to be a 3rd line winger. I don't think the same can be said for Jared right now.

I watched Jared a fair bit in the OHL and in my honest opinion, I'll be very, very surprised if he ever plays full-time in the NHL let alone even sniffs the offensive production that a 21-22 year old Samson demonstrates today in the AHL. Truth be told, if Jared's last name wasn't 'Staal', I don't think many would give a flying **** about him as a prospect. He very well may finally one day hit his stride and being in a new organization and under the wings of Eric may help, but I strongly have my doubts. I just flat out don't see it in the kid. I don't see the the skating ability, hands, vision, physicality, etc. I don't intend to be harsh on the kid, heck, he's only 19, but i've seen a lot of kids go through junior over the years and Jared, in my opinion, doesn't resemble many traits that'll get him into the NHL, let alone a productive AHL'er. I hope the kid does well, but he's got one hell of a wall to climb.


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Old
08-12-2010, 12:59 PM
  #14
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I'd have Skinner as an 8.0C... We have a ton of B talent now, which is a good thing... I think Staal is way too high, Osala too low, Nash too low, Samson too low...

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08-12-2010, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
I feel that Jerome Samson is again woefully underrated, but I have come to expect that and have come to grips with the fact that he's just a personal favorite of mine I suppose. I just don't think we respect the rarity of a 37 goal scorer in the AHL at only 22 years of age..
This, this 100X this. I think he can be a really nice goal scorer for you.

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08-12-2010, 08:34 PM
  #16
Sasha Cares
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Anyone have any idea where we will be with our organizational ranking? #12-14 I would think

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08-12-2010, 08:36 PM
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Anton Dubinchuk
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Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
Anyone have any idea where we will be with our organizational ranking? #12-14 I would think
No idea. I would've guessed 7th or 8th, but I'm not really sure.

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08-12-2010, 09:27 PM
  #18
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We were 17th last year, doubt we jumped 10 spots

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