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If we're terrible this year, what happens next?

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Old
08-13-2010, 10:40 PM
  #26
rynryn
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Originally Posted by saywut View Post
Where?
Forwards -> Line one is still Brunette-Koivu-Miettinen. Line 2 still has a sub-par center, though a 45-49 point Matt Cullen is sadly an upgrade. Bottom-6 is still all pluggers, with a few capable of 20 but not guaranteed, just like last year. Do we consider Nystrom an upgrade on Nolan? yes, and i was a big fan of Nolan Madden to Ebbett/Sheppard? easily--he can pull a few ES minutes and work the PK better than those two--saves wear on Koivu

Defense -> We lost our best d-man at the deadline. agree He gets replaced by the left-handed Kurtis Foster. Burns has to step up and be our #1, but he hasn't shown much promise for a couple years. If not, then PP specialist Marek Zidlicky will also be our #1 d-man. Schultz and Zanon are the same, while Stoner/rookie replace Scott/Hnidy. Much worse on the blueline.not much worse...and considering Foster outperformed our #1B in Zid last year calling Barker a left handed Foster is somewhat of a compliment

Goaltending is the same 2 guys, so nothing has changed there, aside from Backstrom's league-wide exposure as a mediocre goalie.throw any goalie to the wolves like that for an entire season and you'll see a similar drop in numbers
my comments in Bold, obviously.

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08-14-2010, 12:05 AM
  #27
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If we're terrible this year we fire Richards and bring in Hitchcock.

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08-14-2010, 12:13 AM
  #28
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If we're terrible this year we fire Richards and bring in Hitchcock.
Please, no.

We tried the too much defense, no offense already. Hitchcock is just a subpar Lemaire.

If we're doing that style again, I want Tippet or no one. At least he's been able to win with struggling teams and system goalies.

Edit: recently, anyway...

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08-14-2010, 12:23 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
That's just it, I don't trust him for either. He has shown no plan for this team. He talks one thing and does another. If I was Leipold, Fletcher would be on a short leash. If this season turns farther down the wrong road, he and Richards would be out before the halfway mark. We can do better than this.
He knows exactly what he's doing. Build from the center out and fill in the wings with gritty guys who have some touch.

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08-14-2010, 12:26 AM
  #30
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Ain't my opinion, just what I bet will happen.

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08-14-2010, 01:10 AM
  #31
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I really don't think it's out of the question to be thinking of playoffs, but I really don't think we will be worse than Edmonton, Dallas, or Columbus. Our goaltender (while most people say we overrated him because of the system) is a great one who I think will have a bounce-back year this year. I really think that he will play better this year, and our line-up looks so much stronger. I just can't imagine us being any worse than where we ended up last year.

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08-14-2010, 11:13 AM
  #32
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Honestly, we haven't seen Burns for a full year for almost 2 years now.

If Burns stays healthy and we get Butch back we are already a much better team. Other than that Cullen is a solid upgrade at center especially since Brodziak will fall back into his proper role. The first line will only be in place for one more year, and I wouldn't be surprised if Mitts loses his first line role this year with Butch coming back, the potential for Kobasew to take it, and the distant chance that Wellman makes the team. Madden is a plug to by our youngsters some time to improve in houston. That move was for the future, not this year.

Nobody is saying this team will go deep into the playoffs. If you look at the roster from the beginning of last year to this year and don't see the improvement and what the wild are trying to do you should find a new team because you simply don't care enough to pay attention.


Last edited by Casper: 08-14-2010 at 12:49 PM. Reason: typo
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08-14-2010, 12:04 PM
  #33
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totally missing something...who the hell is nicknamed Kobe?

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08-14-2010, 12:40 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
my comments in Bold, obviously.
Nolan + Ebbett's offensive production was likely to be much better than Nystrom + Madden. Madden is a 20 point player at this point, while Nystrom has never eclipsed 20 points. Sure, these players bring solid defensive play, but they aren't going to help much offensively. Yes, Madden can lower the wear on Koivu but so can Cullen.

The Foster I refer to is the one who played for the Wild. A big player who never hit, couldn't skate, and only asset was a heavy shot. That is what I see Cam Barker as, which to me is a #6 d-man, like he was in Chicago.

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totally missing something...who the hell is nicknamed Kobe?
Kobasew.

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08-14-2010, 01:37 PM
  #35
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To me all the talk about CF being fired is WAY to premature. First of all he is a top flite talent evaluator having helped build two recent cup winners in Anaheim and Pittsburgh.

Second, outside of the Leddy trade which I personally disagreed with he has made HUGE strides in upgrading the prospect pool. I mean honestly look at how the rankings are currently. Six months ago Gillies was ranked as our #1 prospect and he's currently ranked #7 and that's after barely a year on the job.

It's my belief unless a GM pulls a John Ferguson Jr. you have to give him at least 3-4 years.

Now on the coaching side even though Todd Richards was a former teammate growing up I would keep him on a much shorter leash this year. Some of the issues that came to light as last season unfolded tell me there is room for considerable improvement. I like how he handles the players but from a startegy standpoint there is reason for concern.

Besides this will likely be "The Don's" last season at the U and I'm not sure Richards wouldn't be a much better college coach at this point in his career.

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08-14-2010, 03:08 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by saywut View Post
Nolan + Ebbett's offensive production was likely to be much better than Nystrom + Madden. Madden is a 20 point player at this point, while Nystrom has never eclipsed 20 points. Sure, these players bring solid defensive play, but they aren't going to help much offensively. Yes, Madden can lower the wear on Koivu but so can Cullen.

The Foster I refer to is the one who played for the Wild. A big player who never hit, couldn't skate, and only asset was a heavy shot. That is what I see Cam Barker as, which to me is a #6 d-man, like he was in Chicago.



Kobasew.
Bouchard, Wellman or Kobasew will be expected to replace Nolan, and Cullen was brought in to replace Ebbett, Belanger. Madden and Nystrom were brought in to replace to guys like Sheppard, and Earl.

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08-14-2010, 03:10 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saywut View Post
Nolan + Ebbett's offensive production was likely to be much better than Nystrom + Madden. Madden is a 20 point player at this point, while Nystrom has never eclipsed 20 points. Sure, these players bring solid defensive play, but they aren't going to help much offensively. Yes, Madden can lower the wear on Koivu but so can Cullen.

The Foster I refer to is the one who played for the Wild. A big player who never hit, couldn't skate, and only asset was a heavy shot. That is what I see Cam Barker as, which to me is a #6 d-man, like he was in Chicago.



Kobasew.
thanks, had me wondering.

The rest I'll have to still disagree on. Madden is still better than Ebbet in everything but endurance. Nystrom has that over Nolan, which will serve him a lot better in that fourth line role as a checker--he isn't likely to break down while being more aggressive physically. I'm not sold on Barker at all, but he'll be better than the Wild-era Foster. Getting paid a lot more, of course, but still better.

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08-14-2010, 04:12 PM
  #38
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Bouchard, Wellman or Kobasew will be expected to replace Nolan, and Cullen was brought in to replace Ebbett, Belanger. Madden and Nystrom were brought in to replace to guys like Sheppard, and Earl.
Kobasew was here last year, so no, he isn't replacing Nolan, he's still himself. Cullen is replacing Brodziak on our 2nd line, which in turn has Brodziak replacing Belanger on the 3rd line, so its Cullen - Belanger. That leaves Madden replacing Ebbett up the middle, as Sheppard is still here. Bouchard its still uncertain whether he plays or not, technically most people have him in Nolan's spot so I wouldn't really disagree there if he plays. That in turn would leave Nystrom replacing the spot held by Earl/Boogaard, which yes he is a minor upgrade.

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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
thanks, had me wondering.

The rest I'll have to still disagree on. Madden is still better than Ebbet in everything but endurance. Nystrom has that over Nolan, which will serve him a lot better in that fourth line role as a checker--he isn't likely to break down while being more aggressive physically. I'm not sold on Barker at all, but he'll be better than the Wild-era Foster. Getting paid a lot more, of course, but still better.
Over the last 2 seasons, John Madden has 46 points in 155 games. Andrew Ebbett has 47 points in 109 games over the same span. So I'd have to give the edge in offensive production to Ebbett, seeing as in ~2/3rds the games he has produced essentially the same amount of points. Nystrom's career high is 11 goals and 19 points achieved last season, whereas Nolan had a 17-16-33 line last season.

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08-14-2010, 04:47 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by saywut View Post
Kobasew was here last year, so no, he isn't replacing Nolan, he's still himself. Cullen is replacing Brodziak on our 2nd line, which in turn has Brodziak replacing Belanger on the 3rd line, so its Cullen - Belanger. That leaves Madden replacing Ebbett up the middle, as Sheppard is still here. Bouchard its still uncertain whether he plays or not, technically most people have him in Nolan's spot so I wouldn't really disagree there if he plays. That in turn would leave Nystrom replacing the spot held by Earl/Boogaard, which yes he is a minor upgrade.



Over the last 2 seasons, John Madden has 46 points in 155 games. Andrew Ebbett has 47 points in 109 games over the same span. So I'd have to give the edge in offensive production to Ebbett, seeing as in ~2/3rds the games he has produced essentially the same amount of points. Nystrom's career high is 11 goals and 19 points achieved last season, whereas Nolan had a 17-16-33 line last season.
Kobasew basically wasn't in the lineup enough last year to get a spot. He never found a real place on the roster. Assuming he's healthy this year he should fit on the 3rd line - where Nolan was. Nystrom is here to either push Kobasew onto the 3rd line, or push Clutterbuck onto the 3rd line. One of them should make it work there, and replace Nolan's production.

Madden.... Sure, he won't produce like Ebbett, but my take is that he's here to take a bit of the defensive pressure off of Koivu/Cullen, so they can concentrate on offense a bit more. It's a bit of a style shift, but could end up working.

That's my 2 cents anyway.

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08-14-2010, 04:50 PM
  #40
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And what happens if we're really good next year?

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08-14-2010, 04:57 PM
  #41
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And what happens if we're really good next year?
Then we win the NW and laugh at the 'Nucks?

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Old
08-14-2010, 05:00 PM
  #42
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Then we win the NW and laugh at the 'Nucks?
I just don't get it, its like everyone is bracing for a season worse than last year's.

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08-14-2010, 06:24 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by saywut View Post
Kobasew was here last year, so no, he isn't replacing Nolan, he's still himself. Cullen is replacing Brodziak on our 2nd line, which in turn has Brodziak replacing Belanger on the 3rd line, so its Cullen - Belanger. That leaves Madden replacing Ebbett up the middle, as Sheppard is still here. Bouchard its still uncertain whether he plays or not, technically most people have him in Nolan's spot so I wouldn't really disagree there if he plays. That in turn would leave Nystrom replacing the spot held by Earl/Boogaard, which yes he is a minor upgrade.

Ok, you seem to be hung up on the word replaced, so lets look at it this way.

'09 '10
Bruno-Koivu-Miettinen Bruno-Koivu-Miettinen
Lats-Belanger/Ebbet/Brodz-Havlat Lats-Cullen-Havlat
Nolan-Brodziak/Belanger-Clutterbuck Kobasew-Brodziak-Bouchard/Wellman
Earl-Ebbett/Sheppard-Boogaard/Clutterbuck Nystrom-Madden-Clutterbuck

1st line= Unchanged
2nd line= Cullen is an upgrade in every way. Having Lats for a full year can only help the team, especially Havlat.
3rd line= Bouchard or Wellman should add scoring and I do see Kobasew as a "replacement" for Nolan on this line.
4th line= Now have a 4th line the Wild could use as a "matchup" line. That should cut down on the time Koivu's line has to spend in a deffensive role.

Adding guys like Cullen,Bouchard and Barker can only help the powerplay, where the Wild were forced to use guys like Ebbett, Johnsson and Schultz last year.

Madden And Cullen will help the penalty kill and again will cut down on Koivu's workload.


Over the last 2 seasons, John Madden has 46 points in 155 games. Andrew Ebbett has 47 points in 109 games over the same span. So I'd have to give the edge in offensive production to Ebbett, seeing as in ~2/3rds the games he has produced essentially the same amount of points. Nystrom's career high is 11 goals and 19 points achieved last season, whereas Nolan had a 17-16-33 line last season.
Look closer at the numbers. 17 of Ebbett's points over those years came on the PP. Ebbett was also playing a fair amount of time on the 2nd line in Minnesota and Anaheim. Madden has scored 23 points in each of the last 2 years and all have come at even strenght or shorthanded. So in my opinion a 23 point 4th line deffensive and PK specialist is an upgrade over even a 30 point poor excuse for top 6 fill-in. And even if you want to give an edge to Ebbett in offensive production, Madden brings so much more to team than Ebbett ever could.

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08-14-2010, 06:41 PM
  #44
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Just wanna say, as fan of Koivu and ducks fan, that I really hope this team can find some quality wingers during season in trades.. I dont see minnesota first line wingers to be real NHL 1st line talent. Koivu could do miracles with top talent wingers..

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08-14-2010, 07:19 PM
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Does anybody think it would be at all possible to pry Tuomo Ruutu from Carolina? He's a certified first liner, and is (Im pretty sure) Koivu's best friend. It's more than likely that they would play very well together. I just don't know if Carolina would ever give him up for anything short of Burns + a ton more.

Ruutu - Koivu - Granlund would be a dominant first line in 2-3 years, when Granlund develops and if he plays Winger(which he has done before). Giving up some good stuff at the deadline this year for Ruutu could be benefitial(sp?) if Carolina has a bad year and wants to try something new. No idea if Carolina is supposed to do well or terrible this year but I'm just throwing out ideas.

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08-14-2010, 07:23 PM
  #46
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Ya, Ruutu is one of Carolina's better players and would likely be apart of any core they'd be trying to build around. I'm sure it'd take more than what he'd be worth to get him in a trade.

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And what happens if we're really good next year?
Some will certainly find things to complain about no matter the circumstance. I mean, people lost their minds when the team traded a 5th round pick...

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08-14-2010, 07:34 PM
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Look closer at the numbers. 17 of Ebbett's points over those years came on the PP. Ebbett was also playing a fair amount of time on the 2nd line in Minnesota and Anaheim. Madden has scored 23 points in each of the last 2 years and all have come at even strenght or shorthanded. So in my opinion a 23 point 4th line deffensive and PK specialist is an upgrade over even a 30 point poor excuse for top 6 fill-in. And even if you want to give an edge to Ebbett in offensive production, Madden brings so much more to team than Ebbett ever could.
I said Ebbett was a better offensive player, not a better player. Madden is a small upgrade on Ebbett at best overall.

Cullen is an upgrade in every way on Brodziak yes, Belanger no. Belanger is a a better PK/defensive forward, and was better at face-offs last year. Lats also overachieved IMO, he'll be lucky to score 30 this season.

Kobasew played 42 games with us, so I really don't see how he wasn't a part of last years team. He was our 3rd line LW, and will remain there. Brodziak shifts down to the 3rd line, I'd expect his production to suffer slightly. Bouchard on this line wouldn't produce 50 points in 82 games, and he won't play that many. Kobasew's 9g in 42 games is about the pace I'd hope from him, 15-20 goals.

If we have success this year, IMO it will be because of keeping more pucks out of our net, not scoring more, as I don't expect us to score significantly more. And with our blueline, we'd need HUGE years from multiple players, and the only ones I have faith in are Burns and Scandella, with the latter not guaranteed a spot on the team. We all saw how bad this group was after Johnny left. They need to be better, as do the forwards, and of course Backstrom/Harding.

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Does anybody think it would be at all possible to pry Tuomo Ruutu from Carolina? He's a certified first liner, and is (Im pretty sure) Koivu's best friend. It's more than likely that they would play very well together. I just don't know if Carolina would ever give him up for anything short of Burns + a ton more.

Ruutu - Koivu - Granlund would be a dominant first line in 2-3 years, when Granlund develops and if he plays Winger(which he has done before). Giving up some good stuff at the deadline this year for Ruutu could be benefitial(sp?) if Carolina has a bad year and wants to try something new. No idea if Carolina is supposed to do well or terrible this year but I'm just throwing out ideas.
Don't think Carolina wants to move him, or if we have the assets to acquire him.

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08-14-2010, 07:44 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by saywut View Post
Kobasew was here last year, so no, he isn't replacing Nolan, he's still himself. Cullen is replacing Brodziak on our 2nd line, which in turn has Brodziak replacing Belanger on the 3rd line, so its Cullen - Belanger. That leaves Madden replacing Ebbett up the middle, as Sheppard is still here. Bouchard its still uncertain whether he plays or not, technically most people have him in Nolan's spot so I wouldn't really disagree there if he plays. That in turn would leave Nystrom replacing the spot held by Earl/Boogaard, which yes he is a minor upgrade.



Over the last 2 seasons, John Madden has 46 points in 155 games. Andrew Ebbett has 47 points in 109 games over the same span. So I'd have to give the edge in offensive production to Ebbett, seeing as in ~2/3rds the games he has produced essentially the same amount of points. Nystrom's career high is 11 goals and 19 points achieved last season, whereas Nolan had a 17-16-33 line last season.

think someone already said this, but these players fit better for their placement in the current wild lines and how the team is shaping up to be built. If you just want to talk numbers then Fletcher should have done everything possible to keep Gaborik and worry about Mikko later. Madden's role is pretty obvious--no way at all to back it up, but i'm fairly confident Madden could have equalled Ebbets numbers if he was miscast in that role. Problem with Ebbet is he's not good at anything where Madden is best used where he's at.

Who knows what Nolan would have done this year, but he was declining rapidly in endurance and speed IMO. I have no doubt that if both played this year in the same role Nystrom would have better numbers. Not saying he's a great player. Just saying he'll be more useful this year than Nolan would have been.

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08-14-2010, 07:51 PM
  #49
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If this year ends poorly we probably are going to do the same thing we did this year; draft firepower and try to get a younger team. We also need to trade our first line wingers. Brunette is still playing fine but he is getting old and I don't think he'll be first line material after this year and Mittens is still Mittens. I don't think there are more mediocre first line forwards in the league than what the Wild have at the moment.

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If we're terrible this year, what happens next?
Pinky and the Chuck

Pinky: "Gee, Chuck, what do you want to do this season?"
The Chuck: "The same thing we do every season, Pinky—try to take over the world!"

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08-15-2010, 01:14 AM
  #50
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Some will certainly find things to complain about no matter the circumstance. I mean, people lost their minds when the team traded a 5th round pick...
It's a very legitimate question. If we are actually in the playoff hunt, do we trade picks and players to boost our chances. Do we keep our players till the end and watch them walk like Nolan? And if we don't make moves and booted out of the 1st reason in 4 games, what was the point?

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